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#517212 12/07/14 08:03 AM
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One thing I've noticed while going into the game is that melee is becoming really really weak compared to mage spells. Even the melee attacks of my summoned elementals are something to laugh at.

45% chance my elementals can melee attack something. My battlemage is at around 65-75% and doing weak damage. For him I don't even use melee any more unless an opponent is knocked down. I've got 7 Intelligence on him and 11 strength. Even with the penalties from having low Intel, my magic attacks are far superior to any of my melee attacks.

I've also got 5 blacksmithing and using my swords and axes on a wetstone.


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Are you kidding me?
Melee become absolute beasts later in the game, single-handedly outdoing the damage output of the whole party.
Plus with the (frankly overpowered) "Weather the Storm" talent they become virtually immune to all kinds of magic.

Last edited by Tuco; 12/07/14 08:29 AM.

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Eeee, no? Melee chars are weaker early, but they are absolutely overpowered in late game.

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Originally Posted by LightningLockey
One thing I've noticed while going into the game is that melee is becoming really really weak compared to mage spells. Even the melee attacks of my summoned elementals are something to laugh at.

45% chance my elementals can melee attack something. My battlemage is at around 65-75% and doing weak damage. For him I don't even use melee any more unless an opponent is knocked down. I've got 7 Intelligence on him and 11 strength. Even with the penalties from having low Intel, my magic attacks are far superior to any of my melee attacks.

I've also got 5 blacksmithing and using my swords and axes on a wetstone.


You're not talking about a melee character but about a hybrid class (=battlemage).

A pure melee character (who don't have any stat points in intelligence) with both level 5 in two handed and level 5 in man-at-arms with immunity to almost every elemental is easily the most powerful char on the battlefield. My level 20 melee has 20 points in strength and 14 in constitution, with both speed and perception at level 9 IIRC... wink


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My battlemage with lvl 5 man-at-arms without any points in two-handed did around 400 damage per normal attack at late game. With rage+oathofdesecration+powerstance+flurry he pretty much one-hits anything lol

Anyway your damage outpit is based primarily on your weapon not your stats I found. Your own forged blades will also do more damage generally than the loot you pick up (but they have less magical abilities)

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Originally Posted by LordCrash

A pure melee character (who don't have any stat points in intelligence) with both level 5 in two handed and level 5 in man-at-arms with immunity to almost every elemental is easily the most powerful char on the battlefield. My level 20 melee has 20 points in strength and 14 in constitution, with both speed and perception at level 9 IIRC... wink


Absolutely. Heck, if you hide them around the corner of a choke point, they basically sit and decapitate every mob that comes by without you having to spend a single AP.

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Also remember that spells require more AP than regular attacks. Most direct damage spells take 6AP, whereas a regular meele attacks take 2-4AP.


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my lone wolf battlemage was a mistake.

At the start, being a hybrid was great: I could do simple damage in melee without taking a ton of damage (because I was using metal armor, none of that flimsy robe crap :P) and had good ranged options with spells.

Mid-game was great! Attacks started ramping up in damage, and my elemental build allowed me to explode all over the place for great aoe damage.

Late-game...well, spells were off to the side. I only used a couple of spells (Wildfire to haste myself, Oath of Desecration to buff my damage, and Death Punch because teehee) because my auto attacks would easily do 600-1000 damage. And because I was a lone wolf with good speed, I could easily do 3-4 attacks every turn if I didn't have to move (and Jahan would always just feather drop me into position). If I got myself fully buffed (Oath + Rage, 100% damage bonus) a Flurry attack would just cut anything down. Even bosses could easily have 75% of their health shredded by a fully buffed Flurry...

I wanted to respec, but since Whirlwind is not found anywhere at high levels (trust me, I've spent an hour quickloading after levelup to try at merchants) I didn't. Because whirlwind is the shit.

If you're a battlemage, use a 2hander. There is literally no reason not to. You could use 1H and a shield, but good luck finding the ability points to level armour and shield skills, alongside weapon skill, man-at-arms and your mage schools of choice. (I was a Lone Wolf and even I didn't have the points for it)

The great benefit is that melee attacks cost a lot less AP than most spells. a 2H Whirlwind attack easily does more damage than the majority of my aoe spells.

The only thing I miss is that Man-At-Arms, Scoundrel and Marksman seem to have no skills past level 10-13 (that I've found), and spells climb up to level 16 and then 18.

You have to remember that early game, undead tend to have very high resistance to most forms of physical damage, and weapon-based characters tend to feel weak.

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Whirlwind is a unique skill book, you wasted your time reloading!
(So is Lightning Bolt/Burning Blaze I found)

And yeah, 2-hander is the way to go, as a battlemage you have elemental shields for defence anyway.

Gotta love a fully-buffed oath+raged flurry haha!

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Well I just don't see how you can make any melee attacks. Right now in the goblin mines where those "Night Knights" are, my melee hit chance is 38-55%. Even my summons can't hit for shit, it is as if they fight with their eyes closed.

It is so bad, that if told my characters to hit the broad side of the barn, an hour later I'd be picking them up in the next county as they passed the barn out and kept walking...

Do I get to put points into perception for them to get a better hit %? Perception sounds like it is strictly for rangers.

As for my weapon right now, I've been using that Buffalo Sword from combining the Buffalo Amulet and Old Sword. Now I'm at least doing some damage... when I get to actually hit something that is.

Last edited by LightningLockey; 12/07/14 02:12 PM.

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Originally Posted by LightningLockey
Well I just don't see how you can make any melee attacks. Right now in the goblin mines where those "Night Knights" are, my melee hit chance is 38-55%. Even my summons can't hit for shit, it is as if they fight with their eyes closed.


You have too little points in strength I guess. Strength determines your chance to hit and your damage output for a melee character. And you can buff your chance to hit (e.g. with a "bless" spell).

With 11 points in intelligence you obviously have too little points in strength...

Also leadership is an important skill. Your whole party can gain up to 10% chance to hit with leadership.

Last edited by LordCrash; 12/07/14 02:24 PM.

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I found disabling my meele targets first rather efficient at times. Between all the stun, knockdown, blind and freezing options that you've got, you should be able to keep your hit chance at 100% a lot of the time.


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The OP says he has 11 points in strength. I am intrigued by what causes hit percentages as well as my level 10 summons have 0% hit chance on many enemies? Is it just strength? If so - why doesn't a spider (pure melee) have a chance?

I plan to play a melee based (right now I'm two lone wolf mages) next and would like to know.....

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Originally Posted by LightningLockey
Well I just don't see how you can make any melee attacks.

That's likely because you don't understand the game mechanics.

Your base chance to hit a target that isn't CC'd is based on your own offence rating, your target's defence rating, and a modifier for difficulty, to which is then added adjustments from e.g. buffs.

Your own offence rating is the one thing you can easily affect. For strength based, it is:

40 + 6*Strength + 3*LuckyCharm

If you are skimping on strength in favour of other stats, you will find your character becoming ever worse at hitting enemies as you progress in the game, as enemies gradually increase in their defence rating.

This becomes especially obvious on the hard difficulty, because there's a negative to-hit modifier there.

In which case you'll want to use either Precision Stance, Blessing, or Blessed Earth to help your gimped melee character to hit more reliably.

As a quick possible repair, consider investing points in Lucky Charm either at levelup or equipment (or both) if you haven't done so already. While not as effective as the primary attribute governing a weapon, skill points are usually easier to juggle.

Alternatively, as others have pointed out, if your primary attribute is so weak that you can't hit the broad side of a gazebo even if you bless or use precision stance, start concentrating more on applying CC status effects to get you a guaranteed 100% to hit. It isn't nearly as useful as having a strong primary stat and 90-100% hit chance against just about anything, but it is still better than your awful examples of sub-50% hit rates.

Last edited by Peter Ebbesen; 12/07/14 04:14 PM. Reason: convoluted sentence unwrapped

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My level 21 melee has an offense rating of 172 and a defense rating of 99 with 100%+ resistancy against every element. Do the maths... hahaha


Another tipp:
Enhance melee weapons with a Tormented Souls. That grants you a stat bonus on both strength and dexterity. wink

Last edited by LordCrash; 12/07/14 04:19 PM.

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Also, Leadership rank 2 adds +10% hit chance for your other party members, so that's nice to have. (Also adds initiative and +10% damage at that rank)

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This is how I've got my level 12 character set up right now.

STR 12 (3 boosted)
DEX 5
INT 7
SPD 8 (1 boosted)
PER 6 (1 boosted)

Offensive Rating 115
Defensive 48

While in Cyseal, even with the battle of Bracuus REX, my hit chance was always above 80%. Coming into Lucculla Forest is where the game pretty much went to shit for me. It started off with 70% chance to hit and just continued to go down hill very sharply.

This issue isn't only with my battlemage but also with anything I summon. Old ladies playing bingo are more violent then my summoned creatures!

My 7 in INT was for the minimal requirements to cast fire spells.


I've already got Leadership Rank 1. Adding a point into Lucky Charm only gave me +3 to my offensive rating.

Now that I think about it, my summoned creatures (Armored Executioner, Water and Fire Elementalists, and Spider) all die very quickly. Sometimes only 1-2 hits take them completely out.

Last edited by LightningLockey; 12/07/14 09:07 PM.

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Madora criting for 500+ at level 10 while the mages are glad to break 100 damage for 6 AP spells.
Melee and weak -> lulz

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My experience was melee started OK, progressively got worse, then just suddenly jumped to OP. I don't even know when it happened, really. Madora was just progressively getting less useful, then seemingly out of nowhere became a god of war. There were battles in Map 2 where I didn't even bother taking her turns. By Map 4 I'm spending the majority of my AP buffing Madora and another Melee.

I'm looking forward to replaying and paying more attention to all the stats now that I know, and seeing exactly why this shift happened. I imagine it can happen earlier if you do it right.

Last edited by DekarTheDragoon; 12/07/14 09:35 PM.
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^ It's the weaponry

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