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After the new AI personalities had been introduced, I've started a new game, giving character 1 "No AI" and character 2 "Free" personality.
  1. There's a personality "Free" and a personality "Spirit".
    Is that intended or should there be a single personality "Free Spirit"?
  2. On the first dialog where you find the corpse of the guy that jumped off the cliff, character 2 asks what character 1 thinks of this, where 2 options, A and B, are presented in the dialog. I selected option B with character 1, whereupon AI of character 2 voted for A. So I did a reload, this time selecting A with character 1, whereupon character 2 now voted for B.
    Is that intended? I've thought that the main purpose of personalities was to have some more or less fixed opinion in dialogs. Or is it the actual characteristic of the "Free" personality to always just disagree with the other character?

It would indeed be nice to have a list where each personality is explained to a certain degree.

Last edited by Morrandir; 16/07/14 10:45 PM.
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Hm... *bump* smile

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A character with "Free" personality does the opposite of what the active character (Player) wants

Source:

Divinity Original Sin: Personalities

Last edited by DragonCommander; 17/07/14 08:38 AM.
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I'd dispute that. I just started playing yesterday after waiting for the personalities and I definitely had situations with the "free" personality (Ishmashell for example, I wanted to toss him back and so did the 2nd character) where the AI decided the same way I did.

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Originally Posted by Larzare
I'd dispute that. I just started playing yesterday after waiting for the personalities and I definitely had situations with the "free" personality (Ishmashell for example, I wanted to toss him back and so did the 2nd character) where the AI decided the same way I did.


well it could be interpreted that it looks at what your active's current trait is (not necessarily decision)

since you probably didnt have altruistic or egotistical at that stage since its like early in the game, then it just chose randomly

but now that you gained the egotistical, next time he will go for altruistic

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@Larzare, have you tried reloading to see if the AI selects another answer when you switched yours as well?

Last edited by Morrandir; 17/07/14 09:00 AM.
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Originally Posted by DragonCommander
then it just chose randomly
That would be an explanation for the switches after reload.

Do you know the source for the information on the Wiki site?

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Originally Posted by DragonCommander

well it could be interpreted that it looks at what your active's current trait is (not necessarily decision)

since you probably didnt have altruistic or egotistical at that stage since its like early in the game, then it just chose randomly

but now that you gained the egotistical, next time he will go for altruistic


Mmh, didn't think about that, might be actually the case.
I keep an eye open for further decisions.

Originally Posted by Morrandir
@Larzare, have you tried reloading to see if the AI selects another answer when you switched yours as well?


Nope, I was quite happy when she (my 2nd character) decided with me wink
I also don't have that particular save anymore.

If the "free" personality actually turns out to be opposite of your active character that would be silly. Free has a totally different meaning, at least for me and I might restart/change personality. According to the chart on on the website posted somewhere above Priest or Spiritual might be fitting more with what I had in mind for my 2nd character.

Edit: it would be awesome to have a little character summary when selecting an AI personality. Hope they add something like that in a future update.

Last edited by Larzare; 17/07/14 09:38 AM.
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"Free" should be renamed "Contrary" to ease confusion.

In terms of the actual personalities themselves, I think they're deeply flawed, because they don't match many of the patterns people would use to min/max traits. For example, if you're making a backstabber who doesn't use the Man-At-Arms skills at all (and thus no attacks of opportunity), the combination of Heartless and Vindictive is worthless. I think the following six personalities I just made would do the job better, as well as having slightly less one-dimensional characters (there are deliberate "internal contradictions" and surprises in the list below)...

Survivor: Forgiving Considerate Materialistic Cautious Heartless Renegade Romantic Obedient Altruistic
Mercenary: Vindictive Considerate Spiritual Cautious Heartless Renegade Pragmatic Independent Egotistical
Knight: Vindictive Considerate Materialistic Bold Compassionate Righteous Pragmatic Independent Altruistic
Zealot: Vindictive Blunt Spiritual Bold Compassionate Renegade Romantic Obedient Egotistical
Noble: Forgiving Blunt Materialistic Bold Heartless Righteous Pragmatic Obedient Egotistical
FreeSpirit: Forgiving Blunt Spiritual Cautious Compassionate Righteous Romantic Independent Altruistic

Last edited by ScrotieMcB; 17/07/14 10:28 AM.
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Speaking of this... is there an actual way to create own or change existing personalities by a mod?

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A lot of design has been put in those dialogs and traits so it's rude to say this, but for me those dialogs little challenges burden a lot my play and I don't mean only the rock/paper/scissor mini game I just hate for single player.

During dialogs I see only the concrete results ie traits and consequences as involving a combat or not, or worst accepting a quest or not. Then any possible pleasures from roleplay choices is totally lost for me. I don't use save scumming from chests, use it for shops because of skills books, but for dialogs it's just huge save scumming and it spoils quite a lot my fun.

I'm not surprised, for me dialog choices should never be challenges, because of save scumming, because challenges will destroy a lot the pleasure of quietly enjoying the dialogs, quietly do your roleplay choices that are contributions to the story, no need link to it greedy stuff.

They can have consequences but if the consequences are immediate then all choices should have balanced consequences. Or have much later consequences in a context where load back isn't an option.

EDIT: I quoted many players feel pointless the roleplaying choices in dialogs. Haaa there's no consequences, it's pointless, it's fake, more complains. My suspicion is that sort of complains come from rush players that don't really read dialogs and don't thought much on their choices in dialogs. If you care of the story and characters, and your play in RPG then dialogs pure roleplay choices are a very good element of fun, no need of greedy elements.

Last edited by Fend; 17/07/14 12:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by Fend
A lot of design has been put in those dialogs and traits so it's rude to say this, but for me those dialogs little challenges burden a lot my play and I don't mean only the rock/paper/scissor mini game I just hate for single player.

During dialogs I see only the concrete results ie traits and consequences as involving a combat or not, or worst accepting a quest or not. Then any possible pleasures from roleplay choices is totally lost for me. I don't use save scumming from chests, use it for shops because of skills books, but for dialogs it's just huge save scumming and it spoils quite a lot my fun.
This is why I feel it's actually very important to have solid automation which ensures some or all of your characters come up with fairly min/max responses. Without it, what you get the vast majority of the time (including my case) is a whole lot of savescumming... it accounted for about 90% of my savescumming, hitting F5 whenever I'd come across a dialogue which seemed to be trait-effecting to ensure I got the traits I wanted.

Actually, what we really need is for these dialogues to just flat-out tell you in advance which traits they are going to effect. Instead of "No, you can't escort me anywhere," how about "No, you can't escort me anywhere (Independent)?"

The point is, the real problem is rampant savescumming, and something should be done to mitigate the damage.

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Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB

In terms of the actual personalities themselves, I think they're deeply flawed, because they don't match many of the patterns people would use to min/max traits. For example, if you're making a backstabber who doesn't use the Man-At-Arms skills at all (and thus no attacks of opportunity), the combination of Heartless and Vindictive is worthless.


I'd say that if your intention is min-maxing you should do it yourself. Can't blame the devs for that. Switch off the AI personalities and optimize your choices to the chars you build.
There should be a minimum of action required for min-maxing after all... laugh
Personally, unless I really absolutely want a specific outcome, I just go with the results - it's actually more fun to play that way for me.


Originally Posted by Fend
A lot of design has been put in those dialogs and traits so it's rude to say this, but for me those dialogs little challenges burden a lot my play and I don't mean only the rock/paper/scissor mini game I just hate for single player.


You can turn them off entirely in the menu, can't you?
At least there's an option somewhere, but not exactly sure what is turned off there.

Last edited by El Zoido; 17/07/14 12:54 PM.
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Originally Posted by Larzare
I'd dispute that. I just started playing yesterday after waiting for the personalities and I definitely had situations with the "free" personality (Ishmashell for example, I wanted to toss him back and so did the 2nd character) where the AI decided the same way I did.


Hm, I created the list that someone copied to the site DragonCommander referenced. I think someone also forgot to copy my warning that it was compiled from some spot testing and is not rigorous. My spot tests with Free AIways wound up with the opposite choice being chosen. Can you let me know what AI your first PC was? Will try that combination and see what I get.

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Originally Posted by PatrickSJ
Hm, I created the list that someone copied to the site DragonCommander referenced. I think someone also forgot to copy my warning that it was compiled from some spot testing and is not rigorous.
Thanks for the clarification. While your work is appreciated, I'd really like to see some official documentation.


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Well, there will be more testing tonight. I just want to get it out there so others could test and reduce my workload smile

Larian's update today says that they are including the source data for the main campaign. Tonight I'll DL and check it out.

Last edited by PatrickSJ; 17/07/14 03:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by PatrickSJ
Originally Posted by Larzare
I'd dispute that. I just started playing yesterday after waiting for the personalities and I definitely had situations with the "free" personality (Ishmashell for example, I wanted to toss him back and so did the 2nd character) where the AI decided the same way I did.


Hm, I created the list that someone copied to the site DragonCommander referenced. I think someone also forgot to copy my warning that it was compiled from some spot testing and is not rigorous. My spot tests with Free AIways wound up with the opposite choice being chosen. Can you let me know what AI your first PC was? Will try that combination and see what I get.


Someone pointed out what I didn't think of: Ishmashell is the first decision I had to make, naturally I didn't have traits yet. Additionally I had set the AI for my first character to "none".
On the second decision (the one with the 2 drunken guards) the AI did indeed choose the opposite option.

In hindsight your list might be very well correct, I was just a little confused why it didn't choose the opposite option on Ishmashell. I haven't played any further, so I can't really tell if the AI always picks the opposite or not.

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Originally Posted by PatrickSJ
Larian's update today says that they are including the source data for the main campaign. Tonight I'll DL and check it out.
How's the investigation going? smile

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The "Free" personality is a bug. As was posted before, this was intended to be "Free Spirit" instead of 2 separate ones. Since the "Free" AI personality is not defined, the game will choose a random option for that AI. A fix for this is in the works.

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Thanks!

Where has this information been posted?

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