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A glitch needs to be fixed. A glitch is something that shouldn't be there in the first place. A glitch is something that violates balance and the vision of the developers. There is no reason to not fix it especially given the fact that the devs delivered mod tools to give everyone the possiblity to change their experience however they like it...

And no, they shouldn't include "more elbow room" when it comes to level up. The system is good like it is. I say it again: if you want to break the game's rules of level up, feel free to use cheats. It's up to you if you want to break your game. You could also just use/create a mod which gives you infinite stat/skill points. It's just pathetic to demand that Larian leaves something in the game which is a clear "violation" of their own vision for balance and level ups.

But D:OS must be REALLY good if this is the only thing you can complain about. And be assured, Larian do their best to fix "actual bugs" as well...

I really enjoy this game, I'd even say I like it more than X-Com which is the only tactical game that comes to mind in comparison of this (maybe a hybrid of Xcom and BG 2 - I am a huge BG2 fan but I don't think its because of some depth of combat, BG2 was much easier than BG1 and I like BG 2 better).

It isn't stupid difficult but it isn't simple either (granted, things get easier once you get access Glass Cannon and easier again when you get fully equipped)

If you put it on hard, in my experience, it really is hard. Could you potentially make a sneak 5 ranged party and simply abuse the AI's inability to seek stealth/invis? Absolutely. But that would be like having unlimited AP in the first place - which would be sort of boring for most of us.

Eventually the mods will come out that allow you to set how many stat points you start out with - by all means, use them, enjoy them. Don't ask for it to be in the vanilla game though.

If the developers' vision was to have a craft mule at the end of time, they would have never have required attributes in crafting in the first place. They aren't trying to kill your time, they're trying to create a balance and a feeling of challenge. I doubt they care about the craft mule either, if someone wants to go through that trouble let them. This isn't about CONTROL, it's about FREEDOM and rewarding thinking outside the normal confines of an RPG.

I appreciate people saying what's not balanced. I would have been very upset had I just started reading those skill books, and figured out later, I was essentially using an unlimited stat trainer.

It's not just the cheat books either. An AI that can't handle invisibility, or not being to take leech because its essentially a full heal every hit, are two other instances I've felt I had to handicap my characters. It's not fun to purposely avoid mechanics, or to gimp your characters more than they should be, to avoid something OP.


I don't know what game you're rushing to play next. There hasn't been a good turn based rpg in ages. Difficulty, depth to mechanics, character builds choices, just like plot choices, all help the game stay relevant for longer. In my book that's a good thing.

Since your enjoyment comes from speeding through the story (and I do enjoy the story as well), there is an easy mode. I'm sure cheat mods are coming if not already available, and there's also a few guys streaming on twitch, where you can just watch a playthrough -- for the story.

Players that do not come to the forum won't stealth to the Teller of Secrets With L3, it is extremely unlike that something like this might happen. If you don't read the internet.

people are right to call you out on this attitude. it was part of the game, intended or not, and that by definition does not make it a cheat, or anyone who uses it a cheater.

the only reason YOU know it's unintended, is because you saw a note from the devs saying so.

how many MORE people do you think never saw that note? would you call all of them cheaters as well?

take your attitude and shove it. it's not needed in a forum like this.

How could you not realize a book that was giving you +1 skill point over and over and over again wasn't bugged? Are there normally permanent stat increases? I mean in Mario you can hit a block and a coin several times, then it becomes a solid brown block but that's usually not the case in RPGs without some identifier of charges.

The AI can't handle invisibility. I will give you that. But considering how silly rogues felt in Baldurs Gate I don't blame them for giving sneak some use (and I love the bush/rock cover too, they dont take it too seriously - how are you hiding in broad daylight). And invisibility, the general fix for this has been TRUE SIGHT for certain "bosses" or "dragons" and sometimes if they are "right next to you" you have them appear. I don't really care too much about invisibility, maybe just increase the CD on that and add some mechanics to sneak that you can only do it once per round - sneaking for 1 AP is nice and more important you still get the reduced line of sight from the skillpoints. I actually think that if Evelyn the first boss could cast invisibility on herself before the players first turn that would amplify the difficulty of that encounter.

You could also signify that things like stealth or invisibility end turn - you would retain the AP but you would not be able to participate until the next round.

I still think this is all just metagaming though. Blind has no save. I can teleport enemies into or away from my team at whim without them having a saving throw, and I can do all kinds of other things that they can't do. The important thing is I have all kinds of options, and while I could certainly cheese one or two of them, it's better than having one optimal play.

"How could you not realize a book that was giving you +1 skill point over and over and over again wasn't bugged?"

because, like all other shopkeeper goods, it respawns on levelup?

because it isn't free?

hell, I never suspected it wasn't intended until I saw this thread, but then, i didn't get access to that seller until level 10.

so... don't be an ass.

an easy mod would simply be to make the books cost ten times more than they do currently; say 50k each.

not easy to make 100k per level for both books; pretty much have spend all your cash and time on just that.

If the devs say it's a glitch IT IS a glitch.

I don't call everyone cheater. I suggest using cheats if you want a short-cut to level ups and if you don't want to normally progress like it is inteded by the developers. If you want to avoid that you should use cheats or mods. That's just it. No need to be butthurt, dude.

And don't even try to be the white knight here. I just call out obvious and reasonable stuff while you just want a glitch (which IS a glitch not because I called it so but because the devs fixed /deleted it) to stay for no apparent reason. As I said before you could have the same effects (more stats/skill points) by just using a cheat engine.

Also we talk about a SP game. There is nothing wrong with using cheats. I don't know why you are so upset about the word/term/issue...

This is how it happens:

You end up finding the keeper of secretes around lvl 10-11, because you hoarded all those blood stones, hoping the game gave you an opportunity to heal someone. Alas so many souls were were doomed, even though you held the cure in your hand, by a lack of dialog options...

So at lvl 10-11 you find the skill books, and buy them of course. When you lvl up you find another pair there, and you assume the the game is balanced around getting a set of skill books every lvl up. Then you think, o'dang I kind of gimped my character by holding on to all those blood stones so long. But you push through.

Then as you continually check the vendor, you start to realize you are getting skill books more than just every level. You're not sure what's causing the vendor to reset, but you just realized you have an infinite source of skill books (as well as gold, legendaries, essences). You're first thought might be relief because you didn't gimp your character after all, but then you think how is all this balanced, I've got an infinite source of skill and stat points.

So you check forums to see how many skill books you are suppose to have, and realize ... hey you're only suppose to have one set, and you've essentially used a stat trainer unintentially all this time to overpower your character.

As a modder making a fanpatch for a game...

You can't imagine the amount of times I heard "Why did you remove [exploit], the developers DEFINITELY intended that exploit to be there" (yes, that's a real argument... you may weep now).
Worse, even if you post the actual code of the encounter in your face, with most times even a game developers note attached saying there's a check there to prevent the behavior from happening (which is broken though, hence the exploit) people will still say that.

And there have been plenty of people DEMANDING of me to re-insert some of those exploits.
Fortunately, I have the power to laugh in their face and say "no"...

This thread raised many suppressed bad memories of stupid users... How real developers cope, I don't know.

I never argued whether they intended or didn't intend anything...I said there's nothing wrong with the skill books re-spawning every level-up. This is practically useless until the second playthrough anyway and given statistically most people never finish a single playthrough, let alone get to start a second one I don't see why they'd have a problem with everyone playing however the hell they please. It's actually counter-intuitive to prevent it. And I completely miss the point of your argument of your experiences and choices as a modder? Or what, you think you affect anything? It's not something that's hard to change and there are countless modders out there. Seriously if you actually think for one second that anything you think actually matters I've got bad news.

Congrats on being an asshole...

And yes, "people playing however they please" is quite different from "here, have god mode, have inf. money, have all skills maxed out... go wild"...

It wouldn't have anything to do with money and it certainly wouldn't be infinite. You'd get so 17 additional skill points at the absolute best if you stealthed it from level 3 and bought the respawns at every level up. That wouldn't even get you two additional maxed skills on one character, whoopsy freaking doo. I'd get to have an easier time putting a few points into damn charisma or something like that. Seriously stop exaggerating.

Every book gives 3 abilitypoints...
Back to you not getting it...

Ok so that now amounts to less than four skills more(more like three and a half). As I see it, at the very least for the easy difficulty that should already be part of the leveling system. Still not infinite and no drastic impact.

You don't have to go there lvl 3. Vendor re-stocks them outside of lvling up. You aren't limited to 17 either. I purchased one set at lvl 11, and 3 sets now at lvl 12. The vendor reset is both time and lvl based. Also as the other poster said, it's 3 points per skill book, not one, that you get so (17 x 3 = 51) assuming you only got them at lvl up.

You obviously have NO idea what you're talking about still...

Don't I? It takes 15 points to max a skill at level 5. Just 56 points from level-up in 20 levels is fucking ridiculous, you can't even get 4 skills per character, that's fucking pathetic. You may have a different opinion about what's a significant difference but I'm not interested in it either. Now if you don't mind, please scram.

So... on 56 "regular" 51 "exploit" is just fine.
Do you hear yourself?

Sorry, this isn't ES "all to 100", you need to make choices.
Also, you got 4 characters, and you're supposed to spread out.

But do continue on with this humerous attempt of not having a clue... I'm having a blast!