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#529497 27/07/14 02:13 PM
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Seriously though. I bought the game based on all the praise and I was very happy with it for the first 10-15 hours, but past that it's been a chore to finish.

The itemization is truly awful and unrewarding. There's no loot hunt to speak of because of this. Items are generic garbage and you have to spend tons of time reloading quicksaves at big chests, if you want to get something even remotely useful, especially late game, or you have to spend hours with the clunky crafting system.

The story comes in these huge lumps of dialogues, followed by huge lumps of boring monster clearing. And I mean really freaking boring, even on the highest difficulty the most difficult thing is to wait for the enemy turn to end. Jesus.

On top of all this garbage, I spent probably hours walking around, because they couldn't bother putting up more teleport points. I guess that's one way to make the game longer. Damn.

The game dragged on way to long, way past the point where combat felt fun and fights engaging. The only reason I finished it is because the story by itself is actually well written and interesting. It's a shame the game has no pace and proper narrative structure.

All in all, I don't think I'll buy another Larian game without properly researching and twitch watching it.


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Yeah, the game is 10/10 before you finish Cyseal, and then step by step it's becoming more, and more boring, to the point when near the end I had to force myself to play, only because I hate to leave games/books unfinished.

Still, the fun in first 10-20 hours, is enough for me to justify the price, so I don't regret buying it. Isometric RPGs are very rare this days, and I really love this genre, so as they say "beggars can't be choosers".

Last edited by Shaki; 27/07/14 02:27 PM.
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Itemization - I disagree wholeheartedly. I never savescummed at chests, and the majority of the equipment I wore was good, useful, and non-crafted. I made crafted equipment occasionally, and it was often better in some ways and worse in other ways. For instance, you can't craft a weapon or a chestpiece which increases Leadership.
The best weapon I found in the entire game was a Unique 2-handed sword, which had fuckhuge damage. Better than I could craft at level 21 with 5 crafting.

Story - crpg has lots of dialogue, story at 11.

Walking - yeah the walkspeed is too slow. Other than that, I think it's fine.

I agree that the combat becomes tedious at higher levels. Combat animations need to be faster, and the difficulty curve needs to be adjusted.

Last edited by dirigible; 27/07/14 04:09 PM.
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About the walking/portal problem: use your pyramids?


What? Boo is outraged! See his fury! It's small, so look close. Trust me, it's there.
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Originally Posted by Kaewins
The itemization is truly awful and unrewarding. There's no loot hunt to speak of because of this. Items are generic garbage and you have to spend tons of time reloading quicksaves at big chests, if you want to get something even remotely useful


Originally Posted by Kaewins
even on the highest difficulty the most difficult thing is to wait for the enemy turn to end


I don't understand. You say that you get nothing useful, but the combat is easy. But if the combat is so easy for you, I suppose that you must have something useful... Perhaps you should try a combat against level 10 enemies with level 5 equipment and skills. I'm sure that it is not easy at all.

Originally Posted by Kaewins
The story comes in these huge lumps of dialogues
Yes. It's customaty in a CRPG. If you don't want 'huge lumps of dialogues', perhaps you should play an ARPG.

Divinity Original Sin is not a fast playing game. It is slow, but this is the way it should be. It is true that when the number of enemies is high, it becomes tedious, bit this happens only ocassionally. Some people don't like slow games. They have good ARPGs and racing simulators, but D:OS it's not made for them.

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Originally Posted by ajotatxe
Originally Posted by Kaewins
The itemization is truly awful and unrewarding. There's no loot hunt to speak of because of this. Items are generic garbage and you have to spend tons of time reloading quicksaves at big chests, if you want to get something even remotely useful


Originally Posted by Kaewins
even on the highest difficulty the most difficult thing is to wait for the enemy turn to end


I don't understand. You say that you get nothing useful, but the combat is easy. But if the combat is so easy for you, I suppose that you must have something useful... Perhaps you should try a combat against level 10 enemies with level 5 equipment and skills. I'm sure that it is not easy at all.

Originally Posted by Kaewins
The story comes in these huge lumps of dialogues
Yes. It's customaty in a CRPG. If you don't want 'huge lumps of dialogues', perhaps you should play an ARPG.

Divinity Original Sin is not a fast playing game. It is slow, but this is the way it should be. It is true that when the number of enemies is high, it becomes tedious, bit this happens only ocassionally. Some people don't like slow games. They have good ARPGs and racing simulators, but D:OS it's not made for them.


Up to level 15, 3 of my 4 characters were in sub-10 gear. It was then, that I decided, that I'll exploit every major chest until I get them geared, but don't get me wrong, even with crap gear the game wasn't hard. My 2 handed warrior was tanky enough and the mobs don't really bring new things in play after level 10.

About the dialogues, see I'm not sure you've played a proper CRPG before, but games like Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale had a lot of dialogue, but that dialogue was carefully spread throughout the game. And proper CRPG games are very linear in their gameplay and story. But D:OS is not a linear game and that means, that you need to consume all the dialogue, because you never really know if you're going to miss out on something as some quests become unavailable after certain progress. So you really need to consume all that dialogue at once, so that you can get your priorities straight. Which means, that you're going to spend a crapload of time reading stuff, and in that time a proper game like Baldur's Gate will have you go through some dialogue->adventuring->fighting->dialogue etc.

There was too much pointless dialogue. And I can't shake the feeling, that the game was forcefully stretched to a point where there is a ton of content in, yes, but 80% of the content is really just filling. Honestly if the game had ended at the 20 hour mark, it would have been a masterpiece, but unfortunately it took some 40 painful hours more.

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Originally Posted by Kaewins
And proper CRPG games are very linear in their gameplay and story.


HAHA WHAT
I'm sorry, you lost me right there.

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Originally Posted by dirigible
Originally Posted by Kaewins
And proper CRPG games are very linear in their gameplay and story.


HAHA WHAT
I'm sorry, you lost me right there.


Would you like me to hold your hand ?

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Originally Posted by Kaewins
Would you like me to hold your hand ?


Yes please. Walk me through mindset of someone who thinks that proper CRPGs are linear.
I suppose Morrowind and Fallout aren't proper CRPGs?

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Look guys, somebody registered here on the forums just to whine about the game.

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@Kaewins

You are right with everything you say. It has some very very rough edges.
I still like it *alot* tho, due to its own charme, maybe it comes, in part, because of those rough edges,
You have to decide for yourself if you can put up with the shortcoming, if its worth it for you.
For me it was and still is.

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Originally Posted by dirigible
Originally Posted by Kaewins
Would you like me to hold your hand ?


Yes please. Walk me through mindset of someone who thinks that proper CRPGs are linear.
I suppose Morrowind and Fallout aren't proper CRPGs?


Morrowind is an ARPG and Fallout is rather the exception among the classics.

I did register here to voice a different opinion, not just for the sake of whining. In fact I wish someone told me things like this about the game, so that I would not spend my money on it. From all the stellar reviews you would think this is the new Baldurs Gate, but it's not even close and it's got a lot of problems.

I'm not even sure why some of you are defending the game. Most of the stuff I list is actually factual. Like reloading a save game to get some value out of a chest you spent 30 minutes figuring out how to get to. That's just bad game design right there.

namealreadytaken, I wish it was worth it for me too, buddy. I really do. As far as content goes, sure for 40$ you get plenty, but looking at the quality paints a different picture.

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Originally Posted by Kaewins
Morrowind is an ARPG


I have read enough for today. And for five or six years...

Last edited by ajotatxe; 27/07/14 06:13 PM.
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That's the first time I have ever heard Morrowind described as an ARPG. I can tick that off my list of "shit I never expected to hear".

There's a fair amount of nonlinearity in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Wasteland, Fallout 1 and 2, even super old lesser known games like Quest for Glory 1&2.

Pretty much one of the defining features of (western) crpgs is their branching narrative and open world.

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Originally Posted by dirigible
Pretty much one of the defining features of (western) crpgs is their branching narrative and open world.


You don't say. Is that why these last few years "open world" games are becoming a thing? You know DA3 is open world now, the new Witcher is open world, compared to before. It's a trendy thing, isn't it?

You should categorize games properly. Morrowind is open world, Skyrim is open world. Shockingly both of those aren't exactly story driven RPGs, they can't be, because there's nothing to keep you focused on the story. Those are games, that give you freedom to forge your own story.

KOTOR, NWN, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale etc... Those are story driven games where your progress through the story is linear. It's an immersive experience handcrafted by the creators of those games.

D:OS is neither Fallout, nor Baldur's Gate. It falls somewhere between those games. It's non-linear enough to ruin it's story and pace, and not open enough to make you really feel like you're exploring.

By the way if you don't consider Morrowind an ARPG, then you shouldn't consider Mass Effect 1 an ARPG, or Skyrim for that matter.

So what exactly are your claims? Is D:OS really the stellar game, that most reviews present it as? Is my criticism invalid?


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Really hate that IMO... just look at Arkham Asylum and Arkham City... the open-world gameplay made the story completely lose focus and gets drowned out... the respawning enemies are horrid, and the game's distorted in it's progression.

Somewhat the same in D:OS I think. Personally I think it would have benefitted of being more linear than being this open. It worked in Baldur's Gate II, but that was since all the stuff in Athkalala was side-quests, not main-quests. Sadly, the story got worse there when it become more linear from the Asylum on...

It's one reason why I personally am not looking forward to The Witcher III or Dragon Age III at all. Open-world is a blimp upon proper storytelling. frown

Also I think from the moment you started save-scumming rather than roll with the punches the game got ruined for you. Of course reloading a game for an hour isn't fun. But the first question you have to ask yourself is "why are you"... and the answer in this case isn't the game but your greed. Probably would have had more fun if you didn't resort to that methinks...

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I have to agree the main story isn't highlighted effectively, but the one issue that irks me about the complainers is their inability to see the irony.

How can you complain about the combat.... if you spent hours reloading saves to obtain better items to make the combat easier. There's a monumental difference between deliberately hamstringing yourself by not using the best stuff you find compared to accepting one roll per chest. It's incredibly stupid not to see this and complain about something else, if you want to complain it's possible to reroll chests go right ahead! But don't be so stupid as to blame your inept decisions to obsess about loot drops.

As for the game's enjoyment, it's great playing with someone else, exploring separately, listening as they faceplant into yet another damn trap/fight because of their OCD (literally, not figuratively). And it makes combat more enjoyable when their similar behavioural difficulties prevent them from doing the obvious so they can, instead, walk Madora across six fields of fire for 90% of their health bar in damage because they didn't fancy clicking to walk around.

So again, there's a difference between limiting your own ability by not power/meta gaming versus going out of your way to make your character worse.

But it's nice you feel twitch can dictate your decisions so it saves you making your own, but please, don't post on forums. Let us make the decision for you to never post again!

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I enjoy the game smile

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Originally Posted by Kaewins
Icewind Dale had a lot of dialogue, but that dialogue



Yeah, no. Betting odds are 100% you never played Icewind Dale when it was released.

It obtained roughly 70-80% scores at the time because (drumroll): it was a pure hack-fest without much character personalization or narrative structure.



I, at the least, am old enough to have played it at launch - you, I think, probably haven't even played it.

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The more I play DOS, the more I'm inclined to agree with the OP.

There are small things, like inventory management (if my backpack opens UNDER my main character sheet once more, I'll strangle someone). Like perma-weather (it always rains at the lighthouse), no day/night cycle (I love having usable beds, I'd like to take a nap in one, but WHY?) and food that is basically crappier healing potions. Like the pyramids returning to my inventory whenever I port to Homestead.

There are more annoying things, like constant immersion breaking. Yes, by all means, let's mention Dragon Commander again. WTF Larian, seriously. I get that you need to make money, but it doesn't mean that Bellegar needs to outright say: GO AND BUY DRAGON COMMANDER. I had to do a double-take when I saw it. Lame jokes and modern idioms don't do you any favors either. Are we saving the world or are we having a piss about it all? I get that Divinity has always been a bit tongue-in-cheek, but surely we could do without obvious slapstick like Zombie Jake in a tophat, crawling out of his grave to trade with me whenever I knock. One minute I admire him for actually RESISTING a raise undead spell, the next it seems like the bugger has adapted nicely to being a zombie.

Then there are big things. Like, Larian needs to print this out and hang it above every desk:

LACK OF QOL FEATURES DOES NOT AN OLD-SCHOOL RPG MAKE.
LACK OF QOL FEATURES DOES NOT AN OLD-SCHOOL RPG MAKE.
LACK OF QOL FEATURES DOES NOT AN OLD-SCHOOL RPG MAKE.
LACK OF QOL FEATURES DOES NOT AN OLD-SCHOOL RPG MAKE.
LACK OF QOL FEATURES DOES NOT AN OLD-SCHOOL RPG MAKE.

Like the switch puzzle in the Black Cove; I don't feel clever for solving it, I just feel like I wasted a lot of time and the designer was a giggling seven-year-old. Like the Diablo-esque itemization, may it burn in hell forever, it might work in Diablo and Diablo clones, but not here. Like the saddest character customization menu in the recent history of games. Like MMO-worthy nerfs (blank elemental scroll recipe today, Lone Wolf and Glass Cannon tomorrow probably, something else that you hung your entire build on the day after).

Don't get me wrong, as far as currently available single-player CRPGs go, DOS is a solid competitor. I am having fun with it, and it offers the most satisfying magic system in recent memory. But I'm afraid that there are enough things wrong with it to not justify all the googly-eyed accolades it has received thus far. If future patches deliver more improvements than nerfs, perhaps things will change.


"We shall not fear the coming of the shadow of death."
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