Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Penalties overhaul

See folks? This is how an internet moron thinks. When you tell him to stop repeating the same obviously cheap and stupid fallacy, because its cheap and stupid, he then repeats it more because his brain gets that confirmation that his master plan is successful. right? :lol:

I guess this was written by Santa then:





For most of the players - generally speaking, of course.

Because of level penalties various sections are "closed off" to most of the players - in a way that doesnt allow for much freedom in approaches - which is visible from any amount of complaints and posts about it, etc, etc.

Freedom in approaches could be increased. Class system could be made a bit more class free, as it was always meant to be - and the game difficulty could be increased and balanced in other ways.

Reducing loot for example, would be just one of various things you can do.

Fallacy implies it's not true. Not my fault it's true.


Nah, just you.

Though I love Skyrim, I don't want every game I play to have that style. Making enemies level with you makes you feel like your not accomplishing anything. My characters aren't getting stronger... At level 2 my characters went wrong way and ran into the level 6-7 orcs... died... reloaded used tactics and won... IF anything this game needs to remove the bad AI where enemy won't attack if a puddle of goo is between you...

Having higher level of characters to limit where you go is far better than making it fully linear. At least that way if I'm good at playing an RPG I can go places ahead of time...

Player1: I think you want to much of an action RPG than what the game is. Having stats limit what you wear is the basic game play of this type of game... To remove that would ruin gameplay for this style of game...

This type of game might just not be your cup of tea.

You think way too much for your brain capacities. (you love skyrim and youre going to tell me about action games and what is my cup of tea... ffs...)

Reducing the importance of level differences does not mean the gameplay will not be stat based.
Quite the contrary.

The opposite is true. - as i actually wrote.

It would also make the game less linear then it is right now.




- how about you all that cannot understand simple sentences stop posting here?
Nobody really wants to know what random emotional reaction fires off in your barely functioning brains, what youre afraid of or what you imagine.

Seriously, those hyper stupid assertions that are contrary to whats suggested and written just make you look completely stupid.

And pathetically laughable, in case of mongoose brain failure up there.

Quit the flaming festivals y'all, or I'll hit people with a banhammer.

- just a bit of negative circumstances overlapping. The problem with things like those posts is that if i leave them alone it turns out other people believe it because they figure it must be true because i didnt respond.
One of the sad truths about internet communication.

eh...

If i had reported any of these blatantly false and intentionally flaming and flame baiting posts the moderators wouldn't have done anything about it. Except telling me i should just suck it up and shut up as in "you can just ignore those" - which in reality means they can say whatever they want, but i cant respond.

Because ... haha... freedom of speech.


...



Anyway, the subject in the OP and a few explanations after that is a very non specific suggestion altogether.
I havent delved into the engine in details yet so i talk from an angle of what i see in the gameplay and how it feels for someone who got to know the gameplay very well. I cant really say which exact stat or mechanic should be adjusted for what exact amount.

It could be that the mechanics create this "leveling difference problem" by accident. Or just make it look worse then it actually is.

Maybe its just down to differences in individual stats that pile up over one or two levels and so create a somewhat drastic difference (when it comes to enemies difficulty) but it doesnt really look like thats all there is to it.

Especially when one takes a better look at enemy levels penalties specifically, which do seem to be a bit arbitrary and not actually based on any game stat, but basically just invented and added to the game and balanced to fit. Dependent on and tied to numbers of levels alone.

Even if i am wrong and these penalties are actually calculated based on various actual stats of your character and the enemies - its still not the best solution and it still produces results that are not the best. Results that can be changed to make good gameplay better.

And the setting more internally consistent.

Since, as its always the case with such mechanics, it creates a situation where just a few enemies from a later game could easily wipe out the whole opening map. Like silly goblins from the second act being actually severally times more powerful then the strongest bosses in the first part of the game.

Not because the Goblins are such a race or type of en enemy, but simply because they have two levels more.


Similar thing is happening with the skills levels penalties.
I really dont see why i should have something as low as 20% to succeed in something just because en enemy type is one or two levels above my current level. Or have that chance of success of using a spell or an ability - just because i lack one or two points in that magic type or ability.

Or why some enemies suddenly become too easy, just because i got a level or two more.
(btw, this is what mostly created the first release surge of complaints about how the game is too difficult, that then changed into complaints about the game being too easy)



Of course that the most players wont even notice this, or anything else. Of course the most players are just interested in getting a bit of new fresh experience and nothing else.
Then, from the rest - the majority wont even be capable of understanding what i am saying - as is depressingly evident. Then that leads into these ludicrous outbursts of various completely wrong assertions - then anger when those are ridiculed or dismissed.

Altogether a very well known cascade of internet non-logic.
Thats why this post is not written for any of the players, but to the devs.




Of course its not any kind of demand. Of course i welcome any comment from posters who are capable of understanding these very, very, very, very, very, very , very, very, very , very simple ideas.

Liking them is not mandatory (even if thats completely illogical), but understanding IS.

OP: the problem with people not understanding what you are TRYING to say isn't the fault of us but the person (you) obviously not explaining yourself well enough. As your second post you should of spent it explaining yourself better rather than flaming. I chose to ignore that and tried to have a discussion with you, again you say I misunderstood. yet another... Just because you don't understand what I said, doesn't mean I didn't understand you. If I did then explain in a more useful way then. Your English is hard to follow and it isn't because we are lacking... I will go back and re-read...

don't get aggressive because someone miss-understand you. calmly relate what you meant in a more precise manner...

EDIT: Hiver Looking back I actually meant that comment to be directed at Player1... thank for pointing that out rather than... oh...NM

Actually nothing in my post was directed at you but other posters, so why not point that out instead of spewing hate at me?

I was going to come back and make a response to you but got side track by RL and never got around to it. sorry about the mis-understanding of who the action-RPG comment was directed at, but you shouldn't spend 80% of your posts compaining/flaming...

Personally, just like the two you flamed most, I think the balance is just fine, if not too easy (on normal difficulty myself). at level 1-3 I was whooping up on level 6-7 enemies just because of tactics I used, so really no area was off limits to me because the enemy was higher level. When I replayed I did it in correct order, and as expected those same 6-7 enemies were much easier to kill.

The level of enemies is a guide to "you are not ready for this location yet", but that warning can be ignored. 2-4 levels higher than my characters i can beat easily... Only bosses have given me trouble, but they don't land lock you for the most part so you can go past their area and onto the next without fighting them in most cases I've encountered. Avoid them till you are ready for them.

Can you give a specific area/enemy you had trouble with? Maybe the build of your characters? curious as to why you consider it so much harder to take on enemies higher level than you. It might not be that the balance of game need to change, could be that your party is built badly...

I'm NOT a meta gamer so me being able to kill level 6-7 enemies when I'm level 1-3 is a sign the game leans towards too easy... Though that particular case was me exploiting the bad AI...

Actually, with classless system that game uses, it is pretty jarring that equipment has stat requirements.

Especially since spells/talents to not have stat requirements, only penalties if you do not have enough minimum in the stat.

Personally, I think it would enhance gameplay, if game was less strict with equipment stat requirements.

You would get more interesting hybrids of characters, instead pretty much forcing focus on Str, Dex or Int, to get basic equipment.

More choice is better for this type of game.

I disagree, what you'd get is an action RPG with everyone wearing same equipment because stats don't matter. So my mage would be wearing full metal armor. It is the basic RPG format that to were better armor you need STR, to use bows you need DEX, to... etc It not a new concept it what is expected in this type of game and why I play this type of game, because I like that concept. Not saying that your opinion is wrong just that it doesn't fit the genre. to take that concept out of the game would change what type of game it is. Hybrid character are meant to be penalized for being hybrid...

BTW: I chose a class at character creation

Choice is already there. Donï½´t focus. A battlemage with strength 15, intel 10 and speed 10 is quite easy to acheive, can wear a lot of different gear (importantly - high level sarongs) and is still powerful enough.

Only min/maxed characters face difficult gear choices. Opposite to your statement the game actually encourages hybrids, as crowd control is its decisive battle factor.

Regards,
Thorsten

Good Point Thorsten, I did give my fighter one point in two of the spell skills so I could better exploit the bad AI when it comes to oil slicks... though if they weren't as dumb it might not be worth the point

Well, I could always exploit teller of secrets, but where is fun in that...

Crowd control is best with Str, Dex or Int focused characters, since each extra gives +5% against enemy save. Not to mention that when penalized, it turns to -10%.

Yeah I'd rather the AI be smarter and not let you wail on them from a distance because they are afraid of getting the slow penalty applied... I mostly use my fighter as a fighter, but two skill points aren't that much of hybrid. Next time I won't. He is still mainly a fighter...

Every my non-mage character has 1 point of Geomancer.

You can never get enough Spider pets.

Plus, summons are not affected, in any way, by stat penalty (for some reason).

@Phalzyr
For some reason i read "to OP,-" not "to the player1". Sorry, my bad. But the answer is still actually valid and your assertion about action RPG style is utterly and ludicrously wrong.

1. Because this game has many other :censored: stats except the :censored: level numbers, if you understand my :censored: english?

2. Because when false difficulty that depends ONLY on level difference is made less rigid then the actual stats of characters, skills and gear - COME INTO PLAY as primary movers.

3. Because an individual can come to such insane conclusion ONLY if you completely disregard all that i have written.

As is your rather ridiculous assertion that it is my fault for your, and other two or three posters incapability to understand simple sentences and the way this game actually works or how RPGs of this kind should work (more or less).

I was wondering how come nobody tried to use that before you did. I was just waiting for such intellectually broken attempt to simply, yet again - state and assert how you are right and im wrong... just because you say so. Without any relation to whats actually discussed here. Or reality in general.


I didnt have any trouble with any area of the game. (its so great seeing that you also grabbed that broken branch, :applause: - nor i was flaming anyone. I was just returning the favors to two posters who intentionally tried to strawman and flame this thread. And me.

ACTUALLY - IN REALITY.

Are you capable of reading anything at all before replying and writing?
- rhetorical...

What... i should explain something to various random posters who cannot even bother to ask anything but rather start their sentences TELLING ME WHAT I ACTUALLY THINK - and then get angry at me when i tell them where they can shove it?

In so many nice words.

Did you maybe miss me saying this isnt really meant for any of you at all? Because thats obviously completely pointless.
And this very post is another proof of that.



a few quick corrections:


It does no such thing and it even presents what looks like a class based system to the players, right at the start of the game. also, what you say there is actually a completely empty vacuous statement.

The game actually actively discourages hybrid builds by its mechanics and penalties and presentation.
They are still doable - and i have already said several times i play with extreme hybrid builds.

Like Str based rogue-fighter-mage of two or three magic schools, who doesnt use backstabbing or stealth - BECAUSE I DONT NEED TO and because the game is on the easy side once you get familiar with the system.

Which means figuring out that level difference is the most important thing that DEVALUES ALL OTHER STATS AND MAKES THEM SECONDARY.

Which is one of the few main reasons why it should be adjusted.
The other big one is to make gameplay better and less linear.
In ways i have explained.



It isnt. You can win battles with or without it. But you wouldnt know that since youre bad at playing this game to its fullest, noob. (this is how you do factually correct simple sentences)

And hybrids dont have any specialty about crowd control. It only depends on whether you made them that way by choosing such skills abilities and spells - but you dont really need to because there are those companions to take and a party to create. (which means youll have all skills and spells covered - for those that cannot think anymore)

AND the skills of the game ARE crowd control skills by large majority anyway. Every specialized build has its own too.


/*
Again, because im dealing with a few posters who cannot follow a few posts after one another, or read what im actually saying - i actually did not say penalties should be removed.

No that was my fault, I edited it after I realized the typo.



No it isn't, I was referring to Palyer1 post, nothing about what you said. Read his in relation to my reply, and it makes sense. Again just becasue you don't agree with something doesn't make it wrong.

Kind of hard with censored every other word :P J/K


You're failing to understand my English... I am saying there is no false difficulty at play IMO. I've even given you an example that shows levels difference didn't make it hard battle... where are your examples?


simple sentences? I was thinking of asking if English was your second language in my first post, but didn't want to offend... I managed to understand what your saying I just disagree with it, as the other two mentioned... disagreeing with you <> we didn't understand you. I asked you to explain because you seem to think we don't understand you...


If that was true why can't you fight enemies higher level than you? Your main reasoning is they are higher level so I can't explore the area. I can, other can... Who is the one having trouble understanding?

returning a flame is flaming... Calling people names is flaming. saying that people are too stupid to understand you (even if true) is flaming. Seems you don't even understand the concept of what it means to flame. you whole second post was one big flame...

Are you?



Yes it does actually as very few skill points can gain you basic spells. Unsupported? We gave you examples...


Not always. Like the example I gave I got toasted rather no chance of winning till I use crowd control. It isn't that I'm bad player it that they way overpowered/outnumbered me, yet throw in a minor crowd control spell and they didn't even hurt me.


No your saying they should be reduced... we got that, what you fail to follow is that we are saying it is too easy as is and uneeded.

We don't need to agree, people opinions vary. You created a post to talk about penalty overhaul and we came in to state our opinion on that it is not needed. anyone that disagrees with you, you start calling names, saying their opinion are wrong. You have a right to your opinion. I have the right to disagree with it.

- thats not what i said. Buddy.

Go and read written WORDS.



No, it doesnt make any sense even so. Player1 did not suggest that all gear should be available to every build. He suggested it gets reasonable penalties, instead of being completely locked off.

Although, as i said, the game really gives the player plenty of opportunities and ways to mitigate that.



No you dont get that...for f...sake...

HOW can you claim it is too easy or unneeded WHEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA ON THE AMOUNT OF ADJUSTMENTS - and you all completely fail to understand how the game actually works?

You cannot say anything of the sort because you guys are too ignorant to offer anything else except your own ludicrous vacuous assertions based on NOTHING.
Fallacy inside a fallacy wrapped in a fallacy.


Only on the internet for idiots. I already explained that fallacy.




:lol:

this?



jesus f/ing Harold with a tree growing from your head...

:triple facepalm:




No, that not really what happened.

Thats a distorted version created by you. Because you are that incapable of actually understanding anything.

And it has been explained several times over so far.
Which just means you didnt read or cannot understand simple sentences.


Again.

I wrote this for the devs, not for posters like you and that other two. And i just explained that in the previous post!
Read it.

yes it was...



Why don't you re-read what you posted...



I understood what player1 one was wanting, I also didn't say it was a bad thing to want. Just that it doesn't fit in the type of game I want to play... You failing to understand my response to him doesn't make my point invalid. With or without penalties making gear able to be worn by all classes, defeats the whole class based system IMO. If he likes it that way that is fine by me, I don't.



Umm yep I have no clue how to the game works because unlike you I can win against enemies higher level than me. That makes a lot of sense...



Weren't you warned not to flame? Denial doesn't make something not a flame. Consider yourself reported again. once I get done with this post.



It is funny because I proved you wrong?



Again flaming?

You complain about others not understanding,