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Originally Posted by mbf
My analogy was merely meant to highlight how ridiculous it is to even hint at the idea that wine (making a motorcycle instead of a car) was a possibility.
...

@Meganoth I fail to see how I am getting _more_ than expected. But of course, this depends on your expectations. My expectation are implicit (a few times rather explicit) in what I wrote before.


I did notice that bit about wine too. I just don't think this remark is that important. A short reply that that was a bad excuse would be waranted, more is taking it out of proportions IMHO. Making excuses is human, and it seems he didn't even know that wine doesn't count as a linux version. EA marketing would have prevented such a faux pax by the way and printed lots of "we are sorry, we value our customers satisfaction..." without a shred of real background information in it ;-)

In my case there is also the fact that I'm still playing Wasteland2 and could play Pillars of Eternity afterwards, so it is easy for me to be patient. Obviously it is more frustrating for you.

Why do I think I'm getting more? As gamers linux users are still a small minority. For developers the decision to make a linux version is not an easy one and it wouldn't have been a surprise if Larian had simply dropped linux for their next games. IF everything is as Sven told us, they could have gone two ways: Make a linux version as fast as possible with whatever works, or produce a lasting solution that makes future linux versions so much easier. I can't judge how realistic solution a is, but I'm happy to find out that they decided to do solution b with the express intent to be able to create linux versions of future games.

I value four birds in the bush more than one in the hand in this case

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My analogy was merely meant to highlight how ridiculous it is to even hint at the idea that wine (making a motorcycle instead of a car) was a possibility.

Whether or not it was ever seriously considered, Wine was the only alternative to creating the middleware that didn't exist, short of dropping the Linux version entirely. It isn't ridiculous to say the game is taking longer because Larian is sticking to the original plan, even if it will be harder than expected, rather than switch to 'plan B'.

It is not uncommon in game development (or other creative endeavours with limited resources) for features and/or content and/or platforms to be dropped or changed. Sometimes games have been cancelled outright. Kickstarter makes this process more public, but it doesn't change the process.

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Originally Posted by Aenra

Which brings me to the second point, again from my view obviously. We have barely three (semi-major-ish) studios making AAA "true" RPGs as we speak. Three*.


Just out of curiosity: which three studios do you mean (well apart from Larian of course)?

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Obsidian, InXile


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By the Gods of inXile and Obsidian, I would like to know too

;-)



EDIT: Oh damn, too late. Ruined the joke

Last edited by Meganoth; 13/04/15 11:06 PM.
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not quite, still laughed smile


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Originally Posted by Aenra
Which brings me to the second point, again from my view obviously. We have barely three (semi-major-ish) studios making AAA "true" RPGs as we speak. Three*. Dedicated on titles that take years of iteration alone. Forget the developing part prior to that. I think they deserve a support, since lacking it, i will be back to playing nothing at all. That's why i pay. Could torrent and call it a day, any day.


You are right. But if they don't deliver what they promised, they don't deserve to support them. Somebody wrote that they delivered more than expected?! No! I've paid for a Linux version and not for a promise. So I'm not willing to support this company anymore. Sorry guys! PoE is fun under Linux and I'll play this game for the next months. I don't need Divinity. Larian! One year after the official release is too late. I am not willing to wait any longer. Game over! Sorry frown

Last edited by Alfred E.; 14/04/15 06:44 AM.
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Kickstarter is not a pre-order system.
It was stated from the start that the Linux version would be done after the Mac version; as described above that took much longer than expected, but it is now being updated with the changes currently in progress. That is part of the development process.

BTW, the release date was June 30th.

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@Alfred E.: I didn't say they *delivered* more than expected. I said (in different words) I'm getting more out of it in the end (with an implied "if everything happens as expected"). Now it might mean I'm too optimistic or maybe I'm just not that different from people who bet their money in the stock market. It definitely means my tolerance to delays is far superior than yours ;-)

Anyway, I backed a lot of kickstarter games and some of them are long overdue. But eventually most of them will still result in a finished game. This is the nature of KS. You are involved in the production of a game from the start. Delays like this happen all the time in the games industry, only you don't experience them first hand if you are not involved in the production as early as with KS. Did you notice that GTA for PC will come out 1 1/2 years after the console version? The Duke (Duke Nukem fourever) was ~10 years in the pipeline. I could make a long list of games that took much longer than expected and I wouldn't even know about another long list of games that nobody ever knew came out late, or never.


Last edited by Meganoth; 14/04/15 10:46 AM.
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Alfred E., quoting parts of my posts so to help you pose your own argument is welcome, but please, do read the entirety of my post yet again.

Or for a TLDR, Raze's sesponse come to that smile

You pledge to support. What they give you back is a sad after-effect of multiple factors which are best not explained here, but since they do happen to be prevalent, rewards you do receive. You do not pledge for rewards though. Kickstarter is NOT pre-ordering, is NOT shopping.

As for the example you happen to mention, be advised that PoE itself was delayed not once, but twice. The second time alone being for over a year. Not the Linux version, ALL of PoE smile
You could perhaps reconsider. Either way, i wish you well!


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I died a little inside when Bioware got bought out by EA. They really did make good RPGs. I really liked ME (including 3), but I can't really call those RPGs. Dragon Age: Origin was a good game, but that really was their last decent RPG.

I applaud Larian, Obsidian, and InXile for not only releasing their games onto Linux, but also making engines that can be used in the future for more Linux games to come.

We all knew that the Linux release would be delayed, and so I am patient.


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@Aenra, I hope you did not just suggest that I buy windows and install it in a virtual machine to play the game. I hope I misread.

To reiterate to all the subsequent posters, some of which still seem to be under the impression that the problem here is my patience. I am still patiently waiting for the game. I don't expect every goal to be met. Hell, I didn't mind when some of the features did not get implemented. But considering that support on Linux is an all or nothing thing for me (and many people who backed the game), it seems disingenuous to mark it as a selling point. A sort of bait and switch. It is exactly the same as them not finishing the game at all. Now...this _could_ happen to a kickstarter game, and I could _lose_ my money. The question here is whether, when all is said and done, they deserve my understanding and my respect. edit: I should note, if they do finish the linux version, then I see it as them delivering everything I expected with my backing.

My main personal problem with this post is that I wish they showed some humility and spared me the bulls**t.

I hope they understand their wrongs and grow up from this experience. Respect all your customers and respect the platforms that enable your success...other developers depend on it.

Last edited by mbf; 15/04/15 01:42 AM.
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You did not misread me am afraid.. smile
Although it was not meant in an offensive or even condescending a way, not at all.

You just reminded me of my early (when they were a true, real fortune) Apple days. Until i saw the light, and understood that occasionally going with the flow in some matters can actually be better. Alternatively, one bears with the consequences. I know how it sounds, was just saying that going for 'different' (linux) has costs. Unlike me back then, you, now, still have an option (even as a last resort) of actually running the software you wish to. Whether that's a case to make you happy or leave you uninterested..that is your prerogative. Since i can guess your reply, and i agree, don't even type it: smile

To go back to the issue at hand..you got my point, and we got yours. What remains is whether you are here simply to receive a personally addressed apology (which will not happen, though i am often wrong), or to strike up a conversation that is at this point beyond futile. Again no offense meant;

1) They do know, and they did apologise. In a number of forms. This OP by Swen being just one of them. Which is why i am saying that unless you somehow find yourself elevated among all others and as such demand a personal apology, i fail to see the point in continuing this. Your part as a consumer has already being done (demand, complain when entitled to, etc).

2) They have already (months prior) addressed this in a manner that precludes any future recurrences of such kind. Entailing obviously that:
a) point has been driven home (hence my saying 'at this point futile' above)
b) this event is one you will not have to face again. You as a customer. Not you as 'mbf'. There are a few thousand others mbfs at the exact same situation you are
c) the above standing, we can at the least say that everybody, Linux customers included, has already gained what can be gained from this. Namely that the games which will be coming out from now on will have more time spent on their gameplay features. Rather than their technical aspect. That is something you too, as mbf, will benefit from. This wasn't a 'one off', there's more titles coming.

finis. Your point is still valid. Your point has been made. Now what smile

Last edited by Aenra; 15/04/15 02:39 AM.

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I hope you did not just suggest that I buy windows and install it in a virtual machine to play the game.

People have mentioned playing the game using PlayOnLinux or Wine. That may still not be an acceptable solution, but it would eliminate Windows and the VM.


...and spared me the bulls**t.

I don't think most people read it that way, and it certainly wasn't the way it was intended.

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Would be nice with some sort of progress report at least, there's very little information on the Linux version other than "it's delayed because issues...".

I have bought the game on Steam but if they are going to drop the Linux version in a couple of months because those issues couldn't be solved (or cost too much to be worth it etc) I'd rather take back my money and buy another game, at the moment everything seems so unsure.

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Well if you want my opinion..

There is a reason one can find similar trends among many developing studios. Pre-production, post-production, burn phases, sales boosting, they all pretty much dictate a certain course of events over time. So while i would not count on this with a hundred percent certainty?
This delay between latest patch and incoming one signifies more than a "big" patch in the works. Personally i'd expect its release to just 'happen' to coincide with a Gold/Remastered edition and/or extra platform ports. Including but not necessarily limited to your Linux one.

You do not have much longer to wait smile

Last edited by Aenra; 15/04/15 05:29 PM.

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@Aerna Eh, paying for a Microsoft license is not an alternative in any universe, even though I have nothing against the OS itself. The point of this post was never to get a personal apology, but to respond to the original post. Now what? Nothing. As you said, I made my point; the only reason I am responding is to address other people. I never meant to strike conversation (although I welcome it), I just wanted my opinion in here. I can only hope that it served the purpose I intended, which I will never know. In my mind it had to be said, so it is what it is.

You say that they get it, but that was my point. The original post implies that he still doesn't really understand all the issues. Does it warrant an extensive conversation? Perhaps not, but I still want to see someone speak up. I saw no one else do it, so I did. Is it having a conversation futile? Well, if my ONLY goal is for them to release the next game in a timely manner...yes. That was a mere corollary of one of my many points.

As a tangent. Linux has no "costs" for me, which I why I use it. I am a pragmatist and if there were any issues with my workflow, I would change it in a heartbeat. Games are not a high priority for me so I don't care if a game is or not on Linux. But I _did_ back this game, and I care about my money. More importantly, I care _who_ gets my money and that they accept it humbly謡ith all that it entails.

@Raze It is how it read to me (still does), and I doubt I'm the only one.

@faceplanter I don't think it looks so unsure. It is just a matter of time. Right now with all that Swen has said, it _has_ to happen. If it doesn't, then all he said is utterly meaningless and we can just forget Larian for good. I still believe he is a man of integrity and trust that we will get the game.

For now, I am just happy I got Torchlight II completely DRM/BS-free through HIB.

EDIT: My replies look so much shorter when I am in the process of writing them. orz

Last edited by mbf; 15/04/15 06:23 PM.
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I for one have thought all of the Larian posts regarding this issue have been sincere. I don't feel they are bullshitting me.

I admit that I would have liked a bit more feed back, however when they do share what's going on, I don't feel insulted in the least.


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I have made some suggestions in regards to how (considering their honest lack of time for lengthy communications) this sense of 'feedback' could be enhanced. At no particular cost that is. You can read them here, among other ideas smile

They are under a heavy load as we speak. New office, different team structure, personnel hiring, a post-production on D:OS, a pre-production on the next one(s). Logistics alone can be a major bitch until a company gets the hang of them. Cannot know if this is what affects them in particular, but i do know that most companies doing their first major expansion tend to suffer from it. Inevitable. Give them some time, then we can best judge i think.


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You rarely see that kind of PR from a game company.

GG larian... GG.

(Nice tease btw, i wanna see the cool stuff, but do it soon before i'm over with the game ;))

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