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Mordan Offline OP
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The all weapon expertise that give a fixed range of extra gamage are broken/buged. The bug where a warrior gains extra skill level in sword and augment damage when reloding a saved game is still there. I havent tested if true shot still are bugged but my guess it that its still bugged.

When is the next patch comming

Last edited by Mordan; 24/04/03 07:24 PM.
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Barnabus:
Also so langsam habe ich den Eindruck du willst hier nur Stimmung machen. Haltlose behauptungen aufstellen und kein vernünfiges Wort zur Klärung des Sachverhalts beitragen. Weist du eigentlich was du so zusammenschreibst.
Deine Behauptung ist definitiv falsch und in dieser Form nicht richtig. Wenn du dir, wie einige andere, die Mühe machen würdest deine Behauptungen erst einmal zu testen und auszuprobieren und uns dann dein Ergebniss mitteilen würdest, währe das was anderes.
Also wenn du nichts wirklich relevantes beizutragen hast. SEI EINFACH MAL RUHIG.


[color:"yellow"]Translation of the German post written by Barnabus[/color]

I slowly get the impression you just want to create a bad atmosphere. You set up unfounded assertions and don't add a single word to clear up the facts. Do you know what you are writing?
Your statement is definitely wrong and incorrect in this form. If you would undergo an effort to test and try out your observations as some others have done and tell us your results, this would be a different case.
If you have nothing really relevant to say, keep quiet, please.



[color:"yellow"] In my own name, kiya:[/color]
Mordan, could you post a few values, please?
Kiya

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Mordan Offline OP
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Im not trying to create a bad atmosphere. I want to play my warrior with an axe and a crossbow properly, what wrong with that? Yes im irritated over that those skills do not work as the skill description says, whats wrong with that? Then im trying to inform pepole about the falws so we can get a patch that fix this problems, whats rong with that? I think these three issues are relevant if you do not agree thats your problem not mine.

FYI:
I have tested the skills i complain about thorougly. Anyone that just gain a level save your game, wield an axe and look what damage you do, pick one skill level in axe and you will notice no damage increase. I have also tested this by using the save game editor and compared 0 skil levels with 5 skill levels and killed creatures with no noticable damage differance even though skill level 5 should do 11+50 more damage then skill level 0.

I have tested all the weapon skills that give a fixed damage increase the same way with the same result. I dont know who this Barnabus guy is but perhaps he can test himself before complaining/accuse me becurse thats tely offending.

/Mordan

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I'm having the same problem with True Shot and Spear Expertise doing no noticible increase in damage.

I'm still happy with the game, and definitely not bent out of shape. I still enjoy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> very much <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm just commenting that these problems seem to still exist.


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God forbid people that haven't played the game forever and don't enjoy testing out everything (maybe because they haven't beaten the game yet) complain that something isn't working correctly. Kiya, I think your post proliferates 'bad atmosphere' more than the original here. Just my opinion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

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If I'm asked to translate word for word explicitly - I do it.
Kiya

To vt100:
Barnabus noticed NO additional damage by True Shot, I translated his former post in another thread - you're right about this. He was just experimenting with spear as I showered this poor gamer with Engl. posts, I had translated for him, dealing with broken skills.

To all gamers loving experimental damage maths: Please, post your values with armour/defense/ weapon stats and damage with skill lvl 0 and skill 5. A comparison can only be made it the conditions are equal. Hmmm, even same monsters?

You can PM me if you wish - but keep everything simple, I beg of you - I hated maths at school <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />. I played mage and it was sufficient for me if the monster was dead <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />
I promise to translate/transfer everything, ok?

Last edited by kiya; 24/04/03 11:54 PM.
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Actually I retract my opinion, as I have read some other threads that would make ur statement more well-founded. Sorry <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />.

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It's ok, Drochief - there's a good German tradition that messengers delivering bad news are getting beheaded - I'll just grow another one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

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yes over here the saying goes; You can't kill the messenger, just because you don't like the message!
Kiya rocks! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />



"Jurak takes long swig of ale and smiles" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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Mordan Offline OP
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Kiya no large examples or huge calculations are needed just check your characters statistics. The damage that is shows there is the damage you do and if you "hover/float" with tne mouse over it you will see the bonuses you got. When you compare the damage in the statistic screen to the damage you do on diffrent creatures you will see that its correct. Sence you exactly see on screen the damage you do on every strike there is no problem to check this.

When you have this conclution all you have to do is to wield an axe next time you level and check damage, get one skill level in axe and check damage again and you will see that it didt increase the damage (You might want to save the game before you take one skill level in axe sence you might not want it).

If you want i can make long list of damage done to diffrent monsters with difrent skill levels but the conclusion will be the same at least in the tests i have done. Its plain unnecessary for more exampels just check the statistc screen and fight and you will see for your self that the skill is broken.


/Mordan

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Thanks for passing the problem on Kiya, you've always provided good information and a means of getting things fixed...thanks for the persistence!


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Thank you all who informed us greatly on this magnificant game. Keep going...

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[color:"yellow"]Results for Augment Damage, Weapon Expertise and True Shot by Barnabus[/color]
German version 1.33, clean install (CD-ROM + 1.1b + 1.33), no game editors

For those believing all warrior skills are broken here a few results.
I have always used the same weapon and killed the same monsters during the whole test.

Location: the main cemetary (where the ghost of the murdered Duke is)
Monsters: Corpses and zombies

So, changes in damage are solely changes due to the skill

Mace (dam. 17-24)
Skill: Augment damage +5 = max dam. 83 this skill works
Skill: mace expertise +5 = max dam. 189 this skill works

Axe (dam. 40-80)
Skill: Augment damage +5 = max dam. 139 this skill works
Skill: axe expertise +5 = max dam. 200 this skill works

Hammer (dam. 49-73)
Skill: Augment damage +5 = max dam. 127 this skill works
Skill: hammer expert. +5 = max dam. 210 this skill works

bow (dam. 8-99)
Skill: augment damage +5 = max dam. 98 [color:"red"]this skill doesn't work[/color]
Skill: bow expertise +5 = max dam. 98 skill works but only effects recuperation
Skill: True shot +5 = max dam. 98 [color:"red"]this skill doesn't work[/color]
all other arrow skills work but partly depend on monster resistances

Crossbow (dam. 24-69)
Skill: augment damage +5 = max dam. 67 [color:"red"] this skill doesn't work[/color]
Skill: crossb. expert.+5 = max dam. 68 [color:"red"] this skill doesn't work[/color]
Skill: True shot +5 = max dam. 75 this skill works, but bonus is too low
all other arrow skills work but partly depend on monster resistances

Spear (dam. 14-58)
Skill: augment damage +5 = max dam. 112 this skill works
Skill: spear expertise +5 = max dam. 183 this skill works

Max. damage values are determined by various tries. They are therefore not the absolute maximum. These values show clearly which skills work and which ones don't.
Furthermore you can see the skill "Augment Damage" has only an effect on melee weapons.

Last edited by kiya; 25/04/03 06:31 PM.
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I never had preocupations about that, because i never tried to look the damage of all these skills i just kill all the enemies in my map, and if i can't kill an enemy because he is extra strong to me i back later with more lvl and more weapons and kill him! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


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I never had preocupations about that, because i never tried to look the damage of all these skills i just kill all the enemies in my map, and if i can't kill an enemy because he is extra strong to me i back later with more lvl and more weapons and kill him!


That's true except for a couple of things. You can do so much more damage with a melee weapon than a bow...it's amazing how long it takes to kill something with a bow late in the game, and if you were role-playing a ranger or someting you'd be sorry you didn't switch to sword just because of the pain of killing something. There are only a couple of decent bows in the game, but a plethora of good swords so it's almost like the choice is made for you.

Second of all, if you put points into a skill, wouldn't you like to know that it did something? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for the analysis, thanks for the info...good to see the melee weapons work as advertised, I didn't do a comprehensive study on that so it was merely perception for me. But it's also good to see more proof towards the feeling that true shot didn't work...I think with that it would be much easier to justify going ranger!


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[color:"yellow"]Results for Augment Damage, Weapon Expertise and True Shot by Barnabus[/color]
German version 1.33, clean install (CD-ROM + 1.1b + 1.33), no game editors

Location: the main cemetary (where the ghost of the murdered Duke is)
Monsters: Corpses and zombies

So, changes in damage are solely changes due to the skill

Axe (dam. 40-80)
Skill: Augment damage +5 = max dam. 139 this skill works
Skill: axe expertise +5 = max dam. 200 this skill works


[color:"yellow"]Results for Axe Expertise by Morkul[/color]
English version 1.33, clean install
Started a new level 1 warrior and did some quests to gain a level and bought a cracked hand axe.

Axe (dam. 10-19)
Skill: axe expertise +0 = 18-31 dam.
Skill: axe expertise +1 = 18-31 dam this skill do not work
Then i used a save game editor raised lavel and picked another 4 skilll evels of axe with the result:
Skill: axe expertise +5 = 18-31 dam.

I have tested the others skills before with the same comclution but do not have exact numbers on them. I hops that Larian have not mixed up verions so there is a differance in this matter but i see no other explanition at this moment.

/Mordan

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I'm just surprised ! I have neveer even bother with all this stuff ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


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That's true except for a couple of things. You can do so much more damage with a melee weapon than a bow...it's amazing how long it takes to kill something with a bow late in the game, and if you were role-playing a ranger or someting you'd be sorry you didn't switch to sword just because of the pain of killing something. There are only a couple of decent bows in the game, but a plethora of good swords so it's almost like the choice is made for you.

Second of all, if you put points into a skill, wouldn't you like to know that it did something? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for the analysis, thanks for the info...good to see the melee weapons work as advertised, I didn't do a comprehensive study on that so it was merely perception for me. But it's also good to see more proof towards the feeling that true shot didn't work...I think with that it would be much easier to justify going ranger!



I agree with but if the skill in a game don't work what we can do, nothing, just talk about and wait for a patch or something like that, i don't have to concern about if the skill work or not else if is a mage skill, imagine you think your mage can be cast a firebolt and he hands up and nothing hapens, it's much bad, how you and me prefer swords and melee damage because it's the best we have from the game, is better that skills work or we are dead. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


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[color:"yellow"]Results for Augment Damage, Weapon Expertise and True Shot by Barnabus[/color]
Axe (dam. 40-80)
Skill: Augment damage +5 = max dam. 139 this skill works
Skill: axe expertise +5 = max dam. 200 this skill works


After speaking with a few frends about this im confused. How can you do 139 dam with only +5 to augment damage?

Short calculation:
Axe max dam = 80
Augment damage 5 skill levels = max dam +20
Equals 100 max dam to get 139 damage you need 195 strenght.

Allow me to doubt your calculation. Was the axe magic or did you have any other item affecting your damage?

/Mordan


Edit: some spelling..

Last edited by Mordan; 25/04/03 10:35 PM.
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Mordan; I tried the same thing, but then went and killed Jake a couple times before and after maxing Axe Expertise. In both cases the character stats pane displayed the damage as 87-137 (the axe was 78-128).

Axe Expertise 0 = 85 to 130 range, 108 +/- 15 average and standard deviation
Axe Expertise 5 = 139 to 195 range, 162 +/- 16 average and standard deviation

I assume I got more that the expected extra average +36 damage since I was at a much higher level than Jake.

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