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Originally Posted by cossayos

Yeah, but that's pretty much what you have to do in order to make it work for the controller. The lowest common denominator. Unless there are two different UIs, one for the limited controller options and one for the PC.


Amazingly, it is actually possible to have two different UI's in the year of our lord 2015. Other games, actually existing today can, in fact, let you switch between a controller and mouse + keyboard. It's not a brand new thing no other game has ever done before.


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The other factor is voice acting. Do you really expect the same richness in dialogue options and story if every line has to be voiced? Everything the PCs and NPCs have to say?


In this particular case of the EE, then yes, I do expect the same richness. This is because Larian, knowing how much dialogue is in their game, having the dialogue already written, and knowing what they were willing to spend on voice-acting, presumably did the math and came up with the conclusion that they could indeed afford to add VA. If they did not have the money, they wouldn't have done it in the first place.

Now, whether the VA issue will influence the amount of dialogue in their future games is indeed a thing they should be paying attention to.

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OK now that we got the real silly controller support whining out of the way (for the life of me I'll never be able to understand people who actively want it gone), can anyone confirm that local split screen is coming to PC as well? I ask because the paragraph that says controller support and local split screen is separate from another paragraph which says that controller support is "also coming to the PC version" or something along those lines. I'd just like confirmation because that would most definitely make me buy it.

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Originally Posted by ninnyjams
[...] (for the life of me I'll never be able to understand people who actively want it gone) [...]


Really? No-one has taken the time to explain the fundamentals of the issue for you?

It's essentially comes down to the fact that in order to accomodate a controller, you have to dumb down the controls of a game to work with the limited input of controllers, thus cheapening gameplay and options.

It's not rocket science. Limiting a PC game because of controllers is no different than limiting any other part of a game because of consoles.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Luckmann
Haha, what? So not only is it being turned into a multi-platform title (the bane of all good gameplay on PC:s since forever) but it requires a DirectX 11 card?

**** off five ways 'til Sunday. That's all I really can say to that. Been waiting for this update since forever, and all it does is screw us over? ****. You.


A PC game being ported FROM PC TO CONSOLES does not, repeat NOT magically convert the PC version to garbage. You are not going to catch reverse-port-cooties.


Yes it does. We've yet to see a single game that hasn't suffered when subjected to multiplatformization.

But it's not magical, though. It's due to inherent limitations of the format in question, and the resulting compromises.

Last edited by Luckmann; 16/05/15 12:18 AM.
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Any game that can be played primarily with a mouse can be played with a controller, as long as reaction time isn't critical (especially in a PvP game, an extra step to do anything on a console compared to a PC would be a disadvantage).

The only reason a PC game would be limited is due to hardware constraints (not currently an issue; it did effect DKS, when a lot of the animals had to be removed for performance reasons, etc) or if the developer was either unwilling to create 2 separate UIs geared to the respective platform or wanted a 'uniform experience', or something.

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Originally Posted by Luckmann
Originally Posted by ninnyjams
[...] (for the life of me I'll never be able to understand people who actively want it gone) [...]


Really? No-one has taken the time to explain the fundamentals of the issue for you?

It's essentially comes down to the fact that in order to accomodate a controller, you have to dumb down the controls of a game to work with the limited input of controllers, thus cheapening gameplay and options.

It's not rocket science. Limiting a PC game because of controllers is no different than limiting any other part of a game because of consoles.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Luckmann
Haha, what? So not only is it being turned into a multi-platform title (the bane of all good gameplay on PC:s since forever) but it requires a DirectX 11 card?

**** off five ways 'til Sunday. That's all I really can say to that. Been waiting for this update since forever, and all it does is screw us over? ****. You.


A PC game being ported FROM PC TO CONSOLES does not, repeat NOT magically convert the PC version to garbage. You are not going to catch reverse-port-cooties.


Yes it does. We've yet to see a single game that hasn't suffered when subjected to multiplatformization.

But it's not magical, though. It's due to inherent limitations of the format in question, and the resulting compromises.
You're so oppressed as a mouse and keyboard user. I think you'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by ninnyjams
can anyone confirm that local split screen is coming to PC as well?

Yes, it is.

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I'm so excited. I just hope they will give us a realistic ETA. And don't push it back a few times like with D:OS.


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does no one care about the day and night cycle? or has that topic been hashed out in another section of the forum you can't be bothered to talk about it anymore =[

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Originally Posted by Raze

Any game that can be played primarily with a mouse can be played with a controller, as long as reaction time isn't critical (especially in a PvP game, an extra step to do anything on a console compared to a PC would be a disadvantage).


Sure, but the possibility to tag on controller ability isn't what's up for debate. It's the often observed "streamlining" that comes with the multiplatform appraoch and voice acting.

Anyone who worked with professional voiceover productions can tell what lenghty and cost extensive process it is. The chances of voicing the same amount of text and options as in the original game are rather slim, unless the production has money and time to burn. Also, all it does, is adding polish, to promote the shiny factor, which seems so all important these days. Shiny comes before content and that's exactly one of the reasons, why I don't buy so called AAA titles anymore.


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Originally Posted by DvGoetz
does no one care about the day and night cycle? or has that topic been hashed out in another section of the forum you can't be bothered to talk about it anymore =[


It's not happening. It would be too much work. Much more than what the story re-write would be.

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Originally Posted by Raze

Any game that can be played primarily with a mouse can be played with a controller, as long as reaction time isn't critical (especially in a PvP game, an extra step to do anything on a console compared to a PC would be a disadvantage).

[...]


White theoretically true, you know full well that it's not, in practice. No-one would design a game with the intent of using a controller to fulfil the function of a mouse, these days, and no-one in their right mind would play a game with a controller if the controller functioned like that. You're grasping at straws.

Originally Posted by ninnyjams
Originally Posted by Luckmann
Originally Posted by ninnyjams
[...] (for the life of me I'll never be able to understand people who actively want it gone) [...]


Really? No-one has taken the time to explain the fundamentals of the issue for you?

It's essentially comes down to the fact that in order to accomodate a controller, you have to dumb down the controls of a game to work with the limited input of controllers, thus cheapening gameplay and options.

It's not rocket science. Limiting a PC game because of controllers is no different than limiting any other part of a game because of consoles.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Luckmann
Haha, what? So not only is it being turned into a multi-platform title (the bane of all good gameplay on PC:s since forever) but it requires a DirectX 11 card?

**** off five ways 'til Sunday. That's all I really can say to that. Been waiting for this update since forever, and all it does is screw us over? ****. You.


A PC game being ported FROM PC TO CONSOLES does not, repeat NOT magically convert the PC version to garbage. You are not going to catch reverse-port-cooties.


Yes it does. We've yet to see a single game that hasn't suffered when subjected to multiplatformization.

But it's not magical, though. It's due to inherent limitations of the format in question, and the resulting compromises.
You're so oppressed as a mouse and keyboard user. I think you'll be fine.


It's not about oppresshun, you nit. It's about games and controls becoming garbage because they have constraints imposed on them due to limitations that shouldn't affect you.

The point of Raze is an excellent example, and is what would happen if the roles were reversed. Imagine console games being made to comply with the otherwise superior keyboard and mouse controls, and you'd have to control a pointer with your control stick. It's absurd, and that's just how absurd limiting PC games to controller schemes is.

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Glad to here about that new version coming smile

Also good to hear there will be 2 different UI (not like watchdogs did, a nightmare).

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Originally Posted by Luckmann

It's absurd, and that's just how absurd limiting PC games to controller schemes is.


See DA:I for abysmal reference.

I honestly don't get it. There's an excellent game that won a well deserved game of the year and had so much potential to build upon and the studio takes the first exit to mainstream to cater to the mass market with a polished rehash of the same game.

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First off, you rock Larian!!

Originally Posted by Raze

There are 2 different UIs, and if you are using a controller on PC you can switch back and forth between controller and keyboard+mouse.


Hopefully this will be true, and hopefully the interface for Mouse+Keyboard will be a little bit revamped too (because somehow there's still work to do (mainly on the fact that targeting with the mouse is somewhat sometimes annoying (the monster moves, the focus on the mouse is lost and you end up moving or doing something else...).

How the fork will work though? Because there's supposed to be two games, but will the small glitches and update come to this game?

Oddly i don't care much since i will have the new version (did i tell you you rocked?), but what is the point of having two separate versions?

I hope the loot will be "fixed" in the new version, that's my biggest hope, the rest was just fine by me.

I hope also that you will milk us like you should and release a game with the same engine, same world and just different quests and classes. I will gladly pay for that!

This is so great, can't wait for the release date, it makes me happy because i was holding back playing, now that i know it's a big revamp, i'll just finish the game and play the new one after.

(Does that mean new achievements too...? Seriously this 'two games' thing is just confusing...)

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Originally Posted by "Various people"

A console version means that the game will be dumbed down! Less dialogue and a consolized interface will be forced on people!


Originally Posted by "Swen Vincke"
We really focussed on improving things - not dumbing things down. It's hard to explain without people actually having played the Enhanced Edition, but I hope player will recognise it once they get in their hands. Won't be that long.


Originally Posted by "Swen Vincke"
There's actually more dialogue now. A lot of the dialogue that bored people came from a generic dialogue system which in hindsight was a bad idea but did allow us to take shortcuts. The extra dialogue/rewritten dialogue dominantly serves to add more personality to the inhabitants of Rivellon or obviously to set up the new quests etc... Also - the voice does do a lot to the immersion level of the game. You might be surprised.


Originally Posted by "Swen Vincke"
Tbh, I don't see how we could even consider having the same interface on platforms that are so different. We already made them very different when making DKS.

(Source is replies on his blog page)

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Originally Posted by Luckmann
Imagine console games being made to comply with the otherwise superior keyboard and mouse controls, and you'd have to control a pointer with your control stick. It's absurd

It wouldn't have to be a direct a direct mapping of functions, and not for all game features. Hopefully as more information if reveal, how it is being implemented will alleviate your concerns that current functionality is being (or will be) ripped out of the engine to make the controller work.


Originally Posted by Linio
How the fork will work though?

AFAIK there are no plans to continue maintaining the released version of the game. The enhanced edition needed to be separate due to the changes with the engine (switching from DX 9c to 11 for Windows, etc) as well as to the game itself (additions and changes to quests, skills, abilities, etc), with effect the system requirements (64 bit only) and mean saved game compatibility could not be maintained.

There are multiple changes to the loot system, and the game economy in general. Since there were changes to quests and the end of the game, achievements will have to be redone, as well (and of course there will have to be an achievement or two added for the harder difficulty mode, etc).

There are 2 games which have started development using the same engine and gameplay mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Raze
[quote=Luckmann]
AFAIK there are no plans to continue maintaining the released version of the game.


Yeah, thought as much.

Buy the new one instead, which is the polished old one with added shinies.

Right now, this is all PR talk with the same wording we heard from Bioware and all the other companies that went mainstream. Don't get me wrong, you released an excellent game. I just hoped for expansions and new games along the same lines instead of a rehash of the same game with all the hallmarks of the so called AAA titles for the mass market.

And whatever happened to the next patch will be a big one, I remember hearing this last winter?

Last edited by cossayos; 16/05/15 03:22 PM.
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Originally Posted by cossayos
And whatever happened to the next patch will be a big one, I remember hearing this last winter?

It kept getting bigger, and evolved into the Enhanced Edition.

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Originally Posted by Raze

It kept getting bigger, and evolved into the Enhanced Edition.


Well, I don't envy your position. Especially seeing how you answered the modding question just a couple of weeks ago.

But working in PR, I consider the above sentence as 1.01.

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