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Joined: May 2010
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Hello Larian,hello forummates!
First of all- Larian I want to say your last Kickstarer Update and annoucement on it was the Bestest what I`ve seen ever,I cannot believe my dreams come true!! I never was so happy even when I was born.
So Swen you asked us"is this a bad move or good move?"
Personally I would say "If you have enough resources and stuff do it!It`s very good move "

I have to say that actually I`ve been writting my suggestions about missing things, before the release of this masterpiece.
But I think now is good chance to do it again.
So discuss it,judge it,add to this post something new ,I would be very glad to see your criticism,and opinions.


Here we go

1)Lack of unique sounds for replacing items

My biggest complain for this game was lack of unique sounds during inventory management and when we are picking-up\dropping items
Actually only "pile of gold" has such sounds.Thus if we try to pick up everything but gold ,we hear standart ticking sound.
Do you remember Divine Divinity,when we replacing you say Teleport Pyramids it gave so magical sound,it was music for my ears,and for me it was one of the reasons of my love for looting.

2)Partial inconsistensy of music tracks to surrounding

I like this music,this is truly Divine in good sense and I know Kirill was ill(I hope now he is much better)!
But sometimes tracks don`t much perfectly for surroundings
Especially it notably in dungeons.

For example,when you released Divinity Anthology there was track called "The Lady The Mage and The Knight" so when we are hear this one in the dusty dungeon full of skeletons and corpses,and then we hear it again during our travel beyond Cyseal not far from growling zombies.
In Divine Divinity there wasn`t mix of "dungeon" themes and "not dungeon" ones

I remember and understand your decision to include all unused and very rare tracks into D:OS,but actually I found few ones that really was`nt used in any Divinity game

a)from Divine Divinity "FightVV" actually it`s called "Demona Fight" If I am correct,it used to be played during demontration of the game or just for promo.
I don`t know if it match perfectly to the mood of the game.I found it on official Divine Divinity site.

b)from Beyond Divinity there was couple tracks which (I found it in folder where game is located) and can be included to D:OS soundtrack.
"Challenging Gesture" and "Playing God","Tail of Knight","Time Gate","Vine and Blood".

c)from Divinity Universe Soundtrack
"Ballad of Empty Illusions","Fire Upon Deep","Guardian of the Divine"

3)]Trophies section and Funny comments about Heroes` stats in the Diary rolleyes please please...

4)Bellegar Encounters and Super-Mega dungeon beneath Pahanthom Forest-)

Yeah Larian I know you are really busy know I don`t want to annoy you with such requests,but I think it`s good opportunity include this things in Enhanced Edition.


Last edited by James 540; 19/05/15 07:41 AM.

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You've a good point about the music :

I experienced this :
in the time my KS box came I can't start playing D:OS because I hadn't have my new laptop yet,
so I listen many times to the soundtrack CD of Kirill and that were very beautiful moments !
The whole bunch of tracks sucks me into the world of Original Sin !!

Then after a while (I bought a new laptop) I play D:OS and listen to the music tracks whilst playing I was suddenly suprized :
* I was a little bit disappointed because of hearing tracks from earlier Divnity games ....
* because the D:OS sound tracks I hear on the CD of Kirill fitting much more the atmosphere of D:OS !
* "nostalgy with music/sounds" can be a strong element in a new game, but can also break the right atmosphere (for me this is a bigger issue than I thought at first!) !

Sorry to the Larian Team to say this. I really love the D:OS sound tracks so so very very much that I don't want to hear (too) many times in the game sound tracks from earlier games ....

It's because of this that I lowered the sound almost to ZERO ! That's really a shame, I know, but then the visuals I see are at laest all full of Original Sin atmosphere sucking my soul into the game smile !!

Also thanks to the Turn Based Combat my inner push to replay older Divnity games is totally gone : see this as a big compliment for Divnity Original Sin (or: Eyes of a Child - nice cover and title!)!
It means that I love D:OS so much that my Soul came finally free from earlier Divnity games ! Or maybe here's something lurking at the corners of my thoughts :hihi: ...
that can be ... no ... it IS ...
Source Magic !!


On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
Joined: May 2010
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Hello again,just want to add my previous post.
5)Inventory management

Yes this was one of reasons why I abandoned this game.I think there is

no need to add any comment,because it was requested hundreds times

before me...

But I can suggest you next thing,it relates on crafting.

Suggestion to crafting:
If you ever played quest "Return to Mysterious Island"
You could see such thing,when we try to combine any items(which can be

combined actually)then game create new special section for this

combining items,thus we can make several combinations simultaneously.
So why don`t use it at D:OS?

6)Progress of gaining experience.

When I started to play Alpha version on Hard,I noticed,that in order to gain next level and survive obviosly you literally(well almost literally) should hunt down every creature,look for every secret mounds,take every minor potion etc....
I noticed this tendency only when you quite low-leveled
You killed Orc and gained 50 exp from 2000,you discocered any secret and again you gained 50 or 100 exp,but then later then more and more (relatively) you gaining experience for quite ordinary things
Let`s imagine you`re 13 lvl and discover secret or something like this and you gained 6000 explore xp!.
If it possible disable percentage-based(depend) system of gaining experience...
So in short I want severe challenge well at leats in Hardcore Mode-)


Experience is a hard master but a good teacher-Proverb of RPG player (c)
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To make the game more friendly to the general public.

1. Quest Markers/area helpers, Toggle.
2. Full voice, I believe I've read that is in.
3. Inventory improvements, even though I did the container way, you watch youtube movies, it seems next to no one there did. Good proof of how things work out for the general pop.
4. Combat speed adjuster. (Perhaps a roaming speed slider as well)
5. That mock screen way back on how to pick a skill while in combat. The skill bar has the Skill Group on it if you invested in it (Pyro/Geo/Man At etc), you click that and from there veritably all the skills you have under that appear from that area up, click the skill and use.

Other:
1. I haven't played latest patch but if Intelligence still reduces cool-down, I'd address that. That hasn't changed has it?
2. Allow a free camera and for us to lock it where we like.
3. 4 player stock supported option.

Last edited by Horrorscope; 20/05/15 03:54 PM.
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1. More camera zoom please. I would like to see more zooming out.

2. drop in-drop out multiplayer support. coop is fun, but sometimes id like to play my character alone, without my friends inactive character attached to my hip :P

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I don't really have any complaints about the gameplay per se. What I really DO want to see, however, is another city/town/settlement like Cyseal. The first half of the game felt perfectly balanced to me in terms of combat/exploration versus talking and questing in town. The latter half was just too much going around wilderness killing areas killing things.

So I really want to see another town like Cyseal, with more NPCs and local quests and noncombat encounters.

....

I also really want to see more racial diversity. DOS' budget precluded the creation of more than the minimum number of NPC model/animation sets--which meant no (unique) elves, no dwarves, no gnomes and no lizardfolk.

And that really stunk. So, yeah: I want to see dwarves and gnomes and lizards all in the EE. Especially the lizards. They were awesome in DD and even cooler in DC.

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Removed or at least drastically reduced RNG for the item-creation/dropping process.

Last edited by Seelenernter; 30/05/15 11:27 AM.

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Personally I'm looking for more varition on loot stats, but more consistent overall quality of loot, and much less of it. Bosses should always drop rares/legendaries, and magical items should in general be rarer so they're worth more. I'd also like +skill stats like +sneak or +lore to be much rarer so that they're exciting to find instead of basically a given.

I don't see them nixing loot RNG entirely because random loot can sometimes support alternative builds that manual placement of items can't always predict. What if someone wants to build a sort of swashbuckler and needs +strength and +dex, but that combination of stats is nonexistant or really rare in manually placed loot because the developers didn't anticipate that build?

I do want more unique items as well, though, including items with actually unique stats. Most of the unique items in game felt really generic.

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Originally Posted by Seelenernter
Removed or at least drastically reduced RNG for the item-creation/dropping process.


I don't think they actually need to reduce the RNG, just tweak it so you don't get 1H weapons with +2H (or vice versa), or shields with +2H for example. Just block off the RNG's that don't make any logical sense, and let the game do the rest.

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Well, less useless combinations and better allocation would at least help the gameplay aspect, yes.

Nonetheless, in conjunction with the rest of the game I'd also prefer to see a matching characteristic item system, instead of a mostly generic one.
A game I really liked regarding that was NWN. Actually all magic items were unique, just slightly RNG influenced in their distribution.

Last edited by Seelenernter; 30/05/15 07:45 PM.

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Hooks and header files

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Progress and gaining experience
********************************

There are casual players who just follow the main quest, accidentally make a side quest.
There are average players who try to find side quests.
There are hard core players who want dig out everything the game offers.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue is: The hardcore player gets lot more xp than casual. Therefore later in the game its easyer for hardcore then casual, due to difference in levels and equipment.

That is not very correct.
Especially for consoles we could expect large amount of green AND casual players. Some of these belives that Diablo is RPG. So run forward and hack&slash means to be played.

Recommendation:
There is used to be a lot of xp for finishing quest and exploration. You can set the proper level for these. If the level is higher then xp reward is limited (in extreme 1xp for an very over leveled quest is possible) That way we can have a lot of side quests, high variability, possible re-playability. But casual gamers who just fallow main line are able to finish the game.

Last edited by gGeo; 31/05/15 03:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by Seelenernter

A game I really liked regarding that was NWN. Actually all magic items were unique, just slightly RNG influenced in their distribution.
NWN have some very interesting ideas, even today. :-]
However, magic items fixed mans that you was forced to build a character depends on certain items. So hard core gamer of NWN knew the location of items then create a build focused for these items.
Thats very odd. In case you want a mace&board cleric but you know there is no proper shield for cleric up to 13lvl and no proper mace at all.

For items I would prefer a flexible system based on sockets and craft. So you could put a stone to the item. Or you could disassemble - so you choose item or the stone. The second thing is broken.

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Originally Posted by gGeo
Progress and gaining experience
********************************

There are casual players who just follow the main quest, accidentally make a side quest.
There are average players who try to find side quests.
There are hard core players who want dig out everything the game offers.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue is: The hardcore player gets lot more xp than casual. Therefore later in the game its easyer for hardcore then casual, due to difference in levels and equipment.

That is not very correct.
Especially for consoles we could expect large amount of green AND casual players. Some of these belives that Diablo is RPG. So run forward and hack&slash means to be played.

Recommendation:
There is used to be a lot of xp for finishing quest and exploration. You can set the proper level for these. If the level is higher then xp reward is limited (in extreme 1xp for an very over leveled quest is possible) That way we can have a lot of side quests, high variability, possible re-playability. But casual gamers who just fallow main line are able to finish the game.


A good workaround to this issue, would be to have limited level scaling. What I mean, is that the enemies should start at a certain level by default, but will also scale up to a certain level (within a 2-4 level range), so as to still provide a challenge to those who do every single side quest and gain levels faster. In that way, casuals will be able to finish at a lower level, but those at higher levels will still be challenged.

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Originally Posted by Jito463


A good workaround to this issue, would be to have limited level scaling. What I mean, is that the enemies should start at a certain level by default, but will also scale up to a certain level (within a 2-4 level range), so as to still provide a challenge to those who do every single side quest and gain levels faster. In that way, casuals will be able to finish at a lower level, but those at higher levels will still be challenged.


I've always been a fan of limited level scaling myself as well, but am surprised at how rare it is. Developers seem to always go for all or nothing. The ideal would be to make it an option for those who want it. I could see scaling being annoying and make you feel not powerful when wolves from the first map could still kill your level twenty character, but scaling of a 2-4 levels would definitely help smooth out progress for both casuals and hardcore players. I hate being overleveled and trivializing content, like when I finally went to the Black Cove a couple levels higher than the enemies there and the combat was boring because the level differential gave me such a huge advantage.

Pillars of Eternity would benefit from this too; that game had even worse issues with over-leveling than D:OS. Basically ruined the game for a lot of people because the second half of the game became so easy if you did even a handful of sidequests. (They've fixed it somewhat, but not retroactively).

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Originally Posted by Jito463

A good workaround to this issue, would be to have limited level scaling. What I mean, is that the enemies should start at a certain level by default, but will also scale up to a certain level (within a 2-4 level range),
Well, limited scaling is good, somehow. It could help make map be more flexible. Now its very strict vhere you could go.
On the other side, once you add more enemyes for hard core gamer, you are giving even more xp. So in fact, you are not solving the issue but make it worst.

Variable quest xp reward gives developers another tool for make sure the player will be at certain step of main quest on certain level. no more, no less. That is very helpful for encounter planing a and difficulty. For example some spells are available on certain levels, if you dont have access to those then encounter might be far more diffcult.

Do you see the diference?

Last edited by gGeo; 31/05/15 05:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by gGeo
Originally Posted by Jito463

A good workaround to this issue, would be to have limited level scaling. What I mean, is that the enemies should start at a certain level by default, but will also scale up to a certain level (within a 2-4 level range),
Well, limited scaling is good, somehow. It could help make map be more flexible. Now its very strict vhere you could go.
On the other side, once you add more enemyes for hard core gamer, you are giving even more xp. So in fact, you are not solving the issue but make it worst.

Variable quest xp reward gives developers another tool for make sure the player will be at certain step of main quest on certain level. no more, no less. That is very helpful for encounter planing a and difficulty. For example some spells are available on certain levels, if you dont have access to those then encounter might be far more diffcult.

Do you see the diference?


How does level scaling add more enemies? What it might do is give more experience for the higher level enemies, but you could just make them give the same experience no matter what level they are. Variable XP for quests could help as well, but I see that also as a disincentive for completing quests you're overleveled for. Limited level scaling eliminates the whole factor of being "overleveled" for quests entirely unless it's a really extreme difference.

Yes, balancing fights for multiple levels is an issue, but I don't think it would be much of an issue if the level scaling is only two or three levels up from the monster's original level. We're only suggesting that monsters level UP to meet you, not down, so I don't see you not having a certain spell you need to defeat a monster that you wouldn't have when encountering the monster at its original level. Proper scaling would mean the monsters don't get much stronger from level 4 to 6, for example, but enough so that they are still challenging if you face them at level 6 and not 4.

Level scaling is not without its flaws, but I think properly implemented it would give players more freedom and balance the content for casual and hardcore players alike.

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You probably talk about Bethesda's scaling.
I talk about Bioware's NWN scaling rather.
In NWN-like system encounter scale by number of enemies. Its more suited for classical RPG where levels matters.

You know in classic pen a paper desk game level means something. Level 1 commoner. Level 2 a smith or cheap city guard. level 3 city guard. Level 10 a famous veteran soldier - the captain. Level 20 god-like persons, only few in the whole world.

Lets have a rat encounter. So you scale up the the rat to 3rd level which is awesome cose such a rat could rip apart gate quards and storm the city.
On the other side. Rat encounter of 10 rats instead of 5 makes sense. They are still the same animals but dangerous in groups. Checks some B horror movie. laugh

Which system you would prefer?

Last edited by gGeo; 02/06/15 12:37 AM.
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Given that D:OS is turn-based and combat can be slow enough as is, I'd prefer level scaling over monster-number scaling. In a faster paced RPG like Pillars of Eternity or NWN, monster number/type scaling probably works better. City guards could scale levels a bit too, but it's already an issue without level-scaling; for example, the fire-undead to the east of Cyseal could probably invade Cyseal and kill everyone easily.

Plus it's much easier for Larian to implement level scaling than to increase the number of monsters based on your level. I agree that you sacrifice some immersion to have rats or goblins or what have you scale up their level simply because you encounter them later, but I think D:OS already doesn't regard levels in the same ways as pen and paper games. You fight orcs early in the game and also very late in the game, and they don't look or seem that different overall. Scaling is just how video games have to work to artificially act as dungeon masters and make the game challenging (and also save money on model design.)

The best case would be to let the player choose whether they want level-scaling or not, but that might be hard to implement.

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