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Skilltree Ideas #568804
08/09/15 10:55 PM
08/09/15 10:55 PM
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Since Swen has asked us for some skill tree ideas, here is something i have come up with.
For now it is just these two. Possible that I will add some more. Of course this is an invitation for everyone to post his/her ideas here and discuss them!

Duelist/Drunk Fencing: Show off your unrivalled skills with the sword as you punish your opponent for every move he makes while you sweep through the battlefield unpenalized.


PRO:
- has an advantage 1-on-1 against nearly all melee combatants
- rewards teamwork with another melee character
- high mobility at short distances
- if it comes out strong and does not synergize with other combat trees you can spend your skill points on other stuff wink

CON:
- most skills work only melee one-handed and when you can see the target (no Riposte against attacks from the rear)
- does not have much and not often utility outside melee engagement (but it is no one-trick-pony either)
- comes into a vulnerable state when faced for too long or at disadvantageous odds
- cannot stack too much damage for ... reasons (hopefully)
[EDIT]: Main attribute is lots of Perception?


Abilities:

Drunk Swallow(active): 0 AP, 3 turns cooldown
Leap 1m between the enemy lines without provoking opportunity attacks.

Piercing Thrusts(passive):
Critical strikes cripple the target.

Pirate's Buddy(active, melee): 1 AP, 3 turns cooldown
You move within in the rear of target foe until your next turn. Ends your turn.

Parry(active): 2 AP, 4 turns cooldown
You evade the next 3 attacks.

Riposte(active): 2 AP, 5 turns cooldown
Whenever a melee enemy misses an attack against you within 2 turns, you respond with an opportunity attack.

???(active): 1 AP, 5 turns cooldown:
High awareness allows for opportunity attacks when nearby enemies move, turn around or attack others than the Duelist. 2 Turns.

Point in Line(active): 2 AP, 3 turns cooldown
Heavily punishes the first foe to approach the Duelist within 2 turns.

Remise(active): 1 AP, 8 turns cooldown
Whenever you miss a regular melee attack within 4 turns you gain an opportunity attack.

Poke(active, melee): 1 AP, 6 turns cooldown
Interrupts the next enemy spell with an opportunity attack.

Lunge(active): 1 AP, 6 turns cooldown
You enter a stance that allows you to gain increased range. Your next regular or opportunity attack
will result in a leap forward. (Opportunity attacks are provoked from farther distances, too)

(Mind that my knowledge does not surpass the unrivaling amounts of wikipedia)


Anti-Magic: Fools! Always have you been told that this game is about combos! Fire melts Ice just so Grease will burn in the Water! This Madness is now over! AN ERA HAS COME TO AN END!


PRO:
- counters every school of magic
- counters many weird effects your enemies will abuse to survive

CON:
- most moves are counteractive or defensive
- does not or just barely defend against physical attacks
- aggressive abilities have high cooldowns or drawbacks
- can interrupt your own teammembers' plans

Negative Field(active): 1 Ap, 7 turns cooldown
Places a rune on the ground which prevents the modification of areas for 4 turns. Does not cleanse the area.

Separation(active): 1 AP, 6 turns cooldown)
As long as active, elements do not interact. (e.g. Poison gas and fire will coexist peacefully wink )
When this spell ends it will exacerbate the elements and trigger all events immediately.
Maximum of 3 rounds active. Can be cancelled.

Chaos Shield(active): 1 AP, 6 turns cooldown
For 4 turns whenever the target is hit by an element, a bolt of the opposite element will hit the attacker.

Starsurge(active): 2 AP, 3 turns cooldown)
Creates a stream of primal energy, dealing high amounts of damage against the target's highest elemental defense.

Silence(active): 2 AP, 8 turns cooldown
Prevents the target from singing for 2 turns.

Null Bolt(active): 2 AP, 6 turns cooldown
Deals physical damage and removes status effects from the target.

Nihilistic Blessing(active): 1 AP, 4 turns cooldown
The target becomes immune against the next magical effect.

Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #568810
09/09/15 01:11 AM
09/09/15 01:11 AM
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I like the idea of the anti-magic skilltree. It somehow plays well with and against the combat system by offering a nice array of tactical skills for players thinking out of the box !


And since we're sharing here, I have been thinking for some time about an equivalent to the Wild Mage from Baldur's gate 2, as told by a friend from some of his fondest memories of playing the game in co-op.
The Wild Mage, as a reminder, is able to cast high levels spells that he shouldn't be able to cast yet. The cost is that the result will be ... Unpredictable. Turning your gold to rock, making cows rain from the sky, summoning a major unshackled and very pissed demon, changing a character's gender, etc, are among the most comical and random effects a Wild Mage can get out of his reckless spells. The most boring surprise? Having your spell actually cast.

I think that, in a game which will feature a lot of skills, and already includes a combat system based on elemental effects, as well as introducing various playable races, a Wild Mage equivalent would be a nice addition.

-- Spellomancing / Reckless Sourcering / I Have No Idea What I'm Doing / Hey what does this thing do? ( seriously I have no idea for a name. ) --


PROS:
- Can virtually use higher skills and spells as well as more powerfull versions of those.
- Can be fun.
- Randomness can be fought by leveling and investing points into the skilltree.

CONS:
- Randomness.
- Randomness.
- You may do more harm than good, because... Randomness.


With the following, almost always assume a Worst Outcome and a Normal Outcome.
Normal Outcome : the original skill or spell is simply cast with no alteration whatsoever.
Worst Outcome : a roll against some kind of "worst outcomes table" will be made. As a result, you may very well knockdown your friend, electrocute yourself, or hasten that gigantic orc. Or vice versa. Or turn into a girl. Or a lizard. Or see the world in red. Or turn red yourself. [cosmetic alterations only. You would retain your original race racial skills and chosen origin.]



- Let's try something new ( buff until next skill) :
You have an interesting idea. Let's try it to empower your next skill or spell !
Best outcome : modifiers that would control the damage or the chance of success of the skill will be higher than usual. [ ie : if the character has, say, 12 int, a damage spell will do as much damage as if they had 16 int ].
Moderate outcome : no modifiers, but the skill's cooldown will be halved.


- A little bit of this ( buff until next skill ):
Mix and match elements. What could possibly go wrong ?
Best outcome : Your skill will have additionnal elemental effect that may trigger an elemental combo. [ a fireball may also create a poison cloud that will immediately explode, or it may bring along some water that will douse the flames and create smoke. Utility skills inflicting an elemental ailment will inflict two ailments. ie Electrocuted + Burned ]
Moderate outcome : Your skill will have some additionnal, non comboting elemental damage [ a fireball with air damage ]


- Desperate times ( active ) :
No time to think.
Instantly cast a Worst Outcome.


- Magnum Opus ( active, high level, once per encounter ):
This is it. You've been preparing for this moment. There won't be outcomes. This is the real deal, folks.
You cast one of the highest level, damage dealing skill or spell of the game at random. This will target a random ennemy and does more damage than the real skill/spell. Let's just hope no one is caught in the blast. No one friendly, that is.


- Lucidity ( triggered, self buff ) :
You know that what you're doing is dangerous. Let's cool down a bit. But where is the fun in that ?
As long as Lucidity is active, Worst Outcomes won't be spells of a higher level than you or target your friends, but you won't get Best Outcomes either. [ leaving you with Moderate, Normal, or less dangerous Worst outcomes ]


- Recklessness ( triggered, self buff ) :
You know what you're doing is dangerous. So let's AMP IT UP !
As long as Recklessness is active, Worst outcomes won't be spells of a lesser level than you, and you will only get Best or Worst outcomes. [ If that level 3 healing spell turns into an apocalyptic rain of meteors, blame yourself! ]


- Raw Source Unleash ( source point active ) :
Maybe you're just showing off. Or maybe you're actually trying to make a difference.
You instantly inflict two random ailments [ elemental or magical ] to everyone on the battlefield, but the caster.


- Friendly Fire ( literally ) (source point temp buff )
Trust me, I swear ! Jump INTO the flames !
Instead of harming your companions, your failed - or successfull - damaging spells will heal them up. Ailments won't apply to players that you hit.


- innate boost from picking the skilltree and putting points into it :
The more you shape and test, the more your understanding of the Source grows.
Higher chances of getting a Best or Moderate outcome per invested points and per available Source Points. Maybe you should keep those Source Points to study them further ...


Obviously this is just a small list of ideas. I won't indulge in actual numbers as I know nothing of the new game system being developped for D:OS2. Likewise, those few ideas can't really take skillcrafting into account for now, or exploit any potentially new elements ...

Last edited by Dr Koin; 09/09/15 01:17 AM.

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Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #568824
09/09/15 02:33 PM
09/09/15 02:33 PM
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First, I want to make sure that I have the right idea when I hear skill tree. For me, a skill tree is something like Diablo or WoW which does not exist in D:OS. I guess you mean fire mage, water mage, earth mage, wind mage, witch, rogue, archer and warrior in D:OS. 5 of those were based on int, 2 on dex and one on str. Maybe there should be more balance between the stats.

I ignore my last sentence and start with the Meta Mage.
A meta mage is somebody who can alter the abilities of himself and maybe others. You need some restrictions or it is completely overpowered. Meta magic does not do any damage. The main disadvantage is that every point spend in meta magic is a point not spend to learn more other spells. But you need other spells to modify something with meta magic. It works together with all active abilities, not only spells (You can enlarge the whirlwind attack of a fighter.) Since it does not do damage (or healing), it is not strongly dependant of an attribute (int, dex or str).

When I write 1AP, it means the meta ability cost 1 AP more than the normal ability.

- Extend spell: 1AP, cooldown 4 turns, The next active ability you use will last 2 turns longer. The cooldown of an extended ability will be increased by one turn. It can only be used in combination with abilities that cause an effect that lasts at least 1 turn.

- Empower spell: 1AP, cooldown 3 turns: The next active ability you use will be cast as if your main attribute for this skill (int, dex or str) was 3 points higher. The cooldown of an empowered ability will be increased by 1 turn.

- Enlarge spell: 1AP, cooldown 4 turns, The area of effect of your next active skill will be increased by 50%. It can only be used with abilities that have an AOE. The cooldown of the enlarged ability is increased by 1 turn

- Seeking spell: 1AP, cooldown 4 turns, The next active ability you use will hit one additional target. It can only be used with abilities that hit a finite number of targets (most spells hit one target, some jump from 1 taget to up to 3 other targets). The cooldown for the seeking ability is increased by 1 turn. If there are not enough targets the spell is cast normally but all penalties (extra AP, longer cooldown) apply. The additional target must be within the range of the ability. This means if you use a spell that hits 1 target and has a range of 2 meters, you need two targets within 2 meters of the caster to have a bonus effect.

- Assist others: 2AP, cooldown as before, shares cooldown with abilities above, high level ability, You spend 2 AP to allow a party member to use meta magic. Example: The meta mage spends 2AP to cast empower spell on the fire mage. The fire mage casts a fire ball as if his int was 3 points higher and the cooldown of his fireball is increased by 1. The effect lasts 1 turn. If the fire mage does not do an ability that works together with the meta magic on his next turn, the effect is lost. This means if the fire mage moves, attacks or is unable to act (like stunned) on his next turn, the meta mage has wasted 2AP.

- Lingering effect, 1AP, cooldown 3 turns, All status effects (positive and negative) that are on the target when this spell is cast will last 1 round longer. Example: A char is regenerating the next 2 turns and also stunned for the next 3 turns. When the meta mage casts this spell on him he will be regenerating for the next 3 turns and stunned for the next 4 turns. Can be cast on allies and enemies.

- Shortening effect, 1AP, cooldown 3 turns, like lingering, but all effects last 1 turn less instead of 1 turn longer. If a status effect lasts only 1 more turn, the effect is removed.

- Seal meta: 1AP, cooldown 4 turns, The target cannot use meta magic for 3 turns


Another Idea would be the tank.
A tank is a strength based warrior who focuses on protecting others. Unlike the Man-At-Arms, he does not have many abilities that do much damage. He can focus on counter attacks. Tanks are good in controlling the position of themselves and enemies on the battlefield. The tank has several stances. That means he spends 1AP and nothing happens at this moment. But he will perform an action automatically when the conditions are met until his next turn. Stances are exclusive. That means selecting one will deactivate all other stances.

- Vengeance: 1AP, 4 turns cooldown, The tank uses 1 AP to prepare for counter attacks. Until his next turn he will do a melee attack with his equipped weapon against every enemy that hits him with a melee attack.

- Shielded: 1AP, 4 turns cooldown, The tank covers behind his shield until his next turn. His block chance is increased by 10% and every time he blocks a melee attack he does a shield bash against the attacker. Shield bash = low damage + small chance of knock down.

- Grappling hook: 1AP, 4 turns cooldown, 15m range, The tank pulls the target towards him. It does not cause damage, but if you pull the target over the ground, the target will be hit by the ground effect. Can be used on allies and enemies.

- Free movement: 7 turns cooldown, The next moving of the tank costs 1 AP more, but it does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

- Protector: 1AP, 6 turns cooldown, 5 meters range, The tank spends 1AP to look at the targeted ally. If the ally is attacked by a melee attack until the tank has his next turn, the tank runs to the ally and takes the hit. If this movement provokes attacks of opportunity, the tank will take damage but his movement will not be stopped.

- Taunt: 1AP, 4 turns cooldown, 10m range, The tank forces an enemy to use his next action with the tank as target. If the enemy cannot perform an action that targets the tank from his current position (no ranged weapon and no ranged abilities can be used), the taunt has no effect.

- Push: 1AP, 3 turns cooldown, The tank tries to push a target away from him. The target is moved up to 5 meters backwards, takes small damage and have a small chance of knock down for 1 turn.

- The tank should have an ability that reduces his damage taken for a short time

Last edited by Madscientist; 09/09/15 02:34 PM.

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Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #568828
09/09/15 03:20 PM
09/09/15 03:20 PM
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The word skill tree has just become the common term for a group of skills in the same category, regardless of whether or not progressing in them is in the form of a tree.


The Meta Mage idea is actually a pretty interesting one. Not as a class, but perhaps as a new type of metamagic spellbooks that can't be learned but can only be used in spellcrafting.

The Tank idea has been proposed by Larian as the Guardian, but those would make good suggestions for Guardian skills.

Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #568831
09/09/15 05:21 PM
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Interesting suggestions. All of them.
I'm fierily against the classic idea of the Taunt skill, though. In my experience, it always results in predictable (boring) combat scenarios, where tanks act like meat-shields and enemies get invariably stuck with them.
A good compromise, that gives tanks some crowd-control efficiency, but not too much crowd-control efficiency, are enemies that get a consistent malus while attacking characters different that the one that taunted them.

Last edited by Baudolino05; 09/09/15 05:28 PM.
Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #568882
10/09/15 01:48 PM
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More ideas:

Hunter (like in WoW)

The hunter can control an animal. It must be a living animal that has a lower level than the hunter. The hunter uses a spell on an animal and it stays with the hunter until it is killed or the hunter loses control over it or the hunter stops controlling it. The hunter can only control one animal at a time and he has 1AP less while having an animal (He needs to focus to keep control of it.). The animal can be controlled like a summon, but there is a chance that the animal does not do what the hunter wants (depending on the type of animal, the hunter skills, level difference or some other things). So the animal may act on its own, do nothing at all, flee or even attack the player. The animal can be a normal animal (your neighbors dog) or an enemy in a fight. Enemies are more powerful than normal animals but there is a bigger chance that the hunter loses control over it. There is also a chance that the spell will fail in combat. The spell has a huge cooldown (you can only try once per battle) and the cooldown starts when you lose your old animal. Initially each animal has a standard attack and one special attack (depending on the type of animal) with a cooldown. Spending points in the hunter skill will allow you to control more powerful animals (same level as you), have more control over the animal, make the animal more powerful or control other creatures (undead, demons, elementals, Come on, you always wanted a hell hound as pet.). When the hunter loses all hit points (and maybe some other effects) the animal will be free and it does whatever it wants (flee, attack the party, do nothing . . .) When the hunter is able to act again he has to find a new animal (or control the old one again if it is still alive and nearby).


Mentalist (maybe you find a better name for this)

A mentalist can influence the mind of other creatures. His special ability is to make a permanent connection to another sentient being.

- Mind link: 1AP, 2 turns cooldown, range 5 meters, The mentalist establishes a mental link between himself and another creature. The link remains until it is canceled, a link to another creature is created, the connected creature dies or the mentalist gets a status effect that prevents him from maintaining the link. If one of the linked creatures takes damage or healing, the other one may also be healed or damaged (maybe also status effects). The link takes time to be build. Any ability that requires a link can only be used one turn after the link has been created (This is to avoid some abuses, especially at the beginning of combat.).

- Pain link: 1AP, 4 turns cooldown, requires mind link, All creatures between the mentalist and his partner take damage (and/or a status effect).

- Laws of attraction: 1AP, 4 turns cooldown, requires mind link, If the mentalist and his partner are closer to each other than 5 meters, they move 10 meters away from each other in opposing directions. If they are further away than 5 meters, they move towards each other and meet in the middle. The movement is very fast. If a creature is in the path of the movement, the movement will stop and the creature (but not the moved one) takes damage. Maybe you can modify the spell that the impact causes a shockwave and affects more creatures. If The partner of the mentalist cannot move (It is a creature that is much heavier than the mentalist (like an ogre or dragon) or the partner has a status effect that prevents movement) only the mentalist moves. The moved creature will be affected by ground effects.

- Central explosion, 1AP, 4 turns cooldown, required mind link, An explosion will take place at the center position between the linked partners. The effect is dependant (among other things) of the distance between them. Bigger distance = bigger bang in the center. (Taken from the adventure game Resonance)

- Teleport: 1AP, 4 turns cooldown, requires mind link, The linked creatures swap their positions.

- The mentalist can place strong buffs or debuffs on their partner. Those spells are exclusive, only one can be active at a time.

- The mentalist should have other abilities that do not require a mind link.

Note: This was inspired by the cipher class from Pillars of Eternity. While I write this I always think about someone like Kreia from KOTOR2 (My favorite NPC of all computer RPGs I have ever played).

After some thinking I came to the conclusion that the mind link should not transfer damage or healing between the partners by default. Maybe that is posible with another ability that requires the link.


Some more things:

It is OK if we remove the taunt skill. D:OS does not have an aggo system anyway.

I dislike the trap master. It is hard to make enemies step onto traps. If you can throw them its just a normal spell. I do not remember when I used a trap in a RPG the last time.

I dislike the unarmed fighter. You cannot enchant your fists while everybody else has a magic weapon. All other monk abilities are just normal spells.

I do not know what to think about the summon master. Almost every skill in D:OS had several summons. Does it mean it is something like meta magic for summons?

I dislike bards. In BG1 my bard was just a weaker version of a wizard and in Pillars of Eternity most fights are over before the chanter can cast anything. I cannot imagine any bard ability that does not already exist in a similar way.

What do you mean by polymorph? Something like the lv9 spell in BG2? You transform into a mind flayer to stun the enemy, then you transform into an iron golem to smash it?


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

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Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: Madscientist] #568887
10/09/15 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Madscientist
*snip*


Don't forget that all skills may not have to be combat oriented. What could be appealing in a bard skilltree is what it could offer to coerce people into doing what we want them to do, simplify dialogues, or open up speech possibilities when outside of combat.
There is a chance DOS2 might get more interesting outside of combat than DOS1 smile


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Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #568888
10/09/15 03:43 PM
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That's quite true... the bard could weave a song so the birds reply in birdsong (decoded to be either some humourous messages, a location, a message or even a prophecy) or even decipher the location to some special stones(riddles, puzzles, etc.).

Just throwing some random ideas.

Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #568889
10/09/15 04:21 PM
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Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing:
Skills are things you put points in (like marksman, leadership or crafting)
Abilities are things you learn through books and each ability belongs to one skill.

I do not know how D:OS2 will be. I have finished D:OS and I know how you could interact with the world there.

Maybe we should start a new topic to find new ways how to interact with the environment outside of combat. What can be done with people, other cretures or objects. What kind of Puzzles are possible at all? What can be done by anyone and what requires a special skill, ability or talent?

In D:OS you could talk to people, choose dialogue options and convince them via rock, paper, scissors.
Regarding objects you could move them or use some kind of key. You had to find some with perception.

If I have more ideas for classes, I post them here.


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Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: Madscientist] #568892
10/09/15 05:45 PM
10/09/15 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Madscientist


I dislike bards. In BG1 my bard was just a weaker version of a wizard and in Pillars of Eternity most fights are over before the chanter can cast anything. I cannot imagine any bard ability that does not already exist in a similar way.



Ouch. And frankly speaking, narrow minded
You're wrong about bards being inherently weak when implemented in an RPG. D&D does them badly. 13th Age (all other system references aside) has an excellent and powerful Bard class. They have powerful songs, separate from their spells, which provide a range of bonuses and effects. Each song has a final verse that has a boosted effect when the song is ended, and they can cast spells or fight while singing. Example of a 9th level spell is one that can allow multiple allies a chance to regain uses of expired daily use powers/spells (so for D:OS end some random ally cool downs). Example of a high level song reduces enemies chance to hit and the final verse causes psychic damage. They also get flexible melee attacks and can be built for magic or melee or skills or songs or story/adventure advancement or a mixture of them.

I recommend taking a look at the 13th Age bard as an example of how to make a bard class well (even if you don't like the other parts of the system)

Last edited by hairyscotsman; 10/09/15 05:45 PM.
Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: hairyscotsman] #568903
10/09/15 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by hairyscotsman
Originally Posted by Madscientist


I dislike bards. In BG1 my bard was just a weaker version of a wizard and in Pillars of Eternity most fights are over before the chanter can cast anything. I cannot imagine any bard ability that does not already exist in a similar way.



Ouch. And frankly speaking, narrow minded
You're wrong about bards being inherently weak when implemented in an RPG. D&D does them badly. 13th Age (all other system references aside) has an excellent and powerful Bard class. They have powerful songs, separate from their spells, which provide a range of bonuses and effects. Each song has a final verse that has a boosted effect when the song is ended, and they can cast spells or fight while singing. Example of a 9th level spell is one that can allow multiple allies a chance to regain uses of expired daily use powers/spells (so for D:OS end some random ally cool downs). Example of a high level song reduces enemies chance to hit and the final verse causes psychic damage. They also get flexible melee attacks and can be built for magic or melee or skills or songs or story/adventure advancement or a mixture of them.

I recommend taking a look at the 13th Age bard as an example of how to make a bard class well (even if you don't like the other parts of the system)


Actually Bards (Chanters) are pretty overpowered even in Pillars of Eternity if you know of to build and use them properly, essentially because they are very similar to their 13th Age counterpart.

Anyway, and I'm not referring to your post in particular, one should consider the basics of OS combat system before looking at other systems/games for inspiration. I'm my opinion its not a system particularly suited for buff specialists, nor one that needs a summoning specialists, considering that filling the battlefield with elementals is one of the simpler way to steamroll through the game, even at the highest difficulty setting.

Last edited by Baudolino05; 10/09/15 08:23 PM.
Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: hairyscotsman] #568905
10/09/15 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hairyscotsman


*snip*



I have never heard of 13th age.

My experience with bards:

BG1:
- They can sing (Singing gives a +1 bonus but he cannot do anything else while singing, like casting or attack. The bless spell of a cleric is better)
- They can wear armor (but they cannot cast when they do and they cannot use mage robes.)
- They can equip almost every weapon (but they cannot specialize and they do not get extra attacks so damage and hit chance are low)
- They can cast spells (Mages can learn more and higher levels. There are no bard specific spells.)
- They get pickpocket for free (OK, my thief can spend his points elswhere.)

This was so depressing that it ruined this class for me.

BG2 was better, but a mage/thief was still better.

In NWN2 they can be very powerful (buffing to immortalety plus curse song), but BG1 disappointed me so much that I used them only to qualify for RDD.

In Pillars of Eternity it is good that they can buff their surrounding while doing something else. But as mentioned before, most fights are over before they can cast anything and all they do is auto attack.

I do not remember playing a bard in another computer game and I never played a PnP RPG.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

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Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: Baudolino05] #568911
10/09/15 09:02 PM
10/09/15 09:02 PM
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Dr Koin Offline

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Originally Posted by Baudolino05
Anyway, and I'm not referring to your post in particular, one should consider the basics of OS combat system before looking at other systems/games for inspiration. I'm my opinion its not a system particularly suited for buff specialists, nor one that needs a summoning specialists, considering that filling the battlefield with elementals is one of the simpler way to steamroll through the game, even at the highest difficulty setting.


I'd tend to disagree, as buffs were very, very important and quite overpowered in DOS1. I played with 2 characters only ( both lone wolves ) so having to play with 4 would be new but I reckon there COULD be a place for a buff/debuff specialist whose main job would be to empower his friends, leaving them to focus on other aspects of the game. Actually that would even make combat more dynamic and flexible ( at the expense of strategy maybe ) as you wouldn't be forced to stop whatever you were doing with your big melee juggernaut in order to re-cast his defensive buffs or whatever.

Also, Bards in Rift ( a subclass of the Rogue archetype ). They were quite fun to play, and invaluable in a group, while retaining what makes a Bard a bard : a singer and musician


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Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #568939
11/09/15 12:54 PM
11/09/15 12:54 PM
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Madscientist Offline

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about bards: I admit that they can be a very interesting class. But you have to make them better than in baldurs gate. I have not played an interesting bard in a computer game yet. The only advice I can give: Do not create a jack of all trades, master on none. It must be something special that only they can do and that has something to do with knowledge and art (art means things like music, dance or performance). Social skills may also be good.

Maybe I found a way to save the unarmed fighter: tattoos
Tattoos are on your skin, so there is no effect when it is covered by weapons or armor.
Offensive tattoos give you a big bonus when you touch (punch, kick, wrestle, . . .) an enemy while not wearing weapons or shields.
Defensive tattoos give you a big bonus when an enemy touches you while you do not wear armor.
There may be other tattoos that give a minor passive bonus to the player so it is not completely useless for chars with weapons and armor.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

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Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: Dr Koin] #568972
11/09/15 08:28 PM
11/09/15 08:28 PM
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Baudolino05 Offline
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Originally Posted by Dr Koin
Originally Posted by Baudolino05
Anyway, and I'm not referring to your post in particular, one should consider the basics of OS combat system before looking at other systems/games for inspiration. I'm my opinion its not a system particularly suited for buff specialists, nor one that needs a summoning specialists, considering that filling the battlefield with elementals is one of the simpler way to steamroll through the game, even at the highest difficulty setting.


I'd tend to disagree, as buffs were very, very important and quite overpowered in DOS1. I played with 2 characters only ( both lone wolves ) so having to play with 4 would be new but I reckon there COULD be a place for a buff/debuff specialist whose main job would be to empower his friends, leaving them to focus on other aspects of the game. Actually that would even make combat more dynamic and flexible ( at the expense of strategy maybe ) as you wouldn't be forced to stop whatever you were doing with your big melee juggernaut in order to re-cast his defensive buffs or whatever.

Also, Bards in Rift ( a subclass of the Rogue archetype ). They were quite fun to play, and invaluable in a group, while retaining what makes a Bard a bard : a singer and musician


Simplifying:

1) D:OS is a game with a relatively high killing-ratio. Meaning characters kill and get killed with few hits, and consequentially buffs have to be really, REALLY impactful to make a valid alternative to direct attacks (otherwise the buffer would feel underpowered).

2) All magic schools already have buffs/debuffs among their skills.

3) Offensive skills tend to have long range and/or a wide area of effect, while characters tend to have an high-mobility, so keeping you buffer in the back row would be hard at best, impossible in most cases.

These three reasons combined make me think that a buff specialist would be a waste of time in this system. Maybe a skill tree that combine buffs and melee skills, or buffs and debuffs, could work, though.

Last edited by Baudolino05; 12/09/15 07:40 AM.
Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #571309
08/10/15 11:05 AM
08/10/15 11:05 AM
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I have put some skill points in thread necromancy.

Here are some ideas for the unarmed fighter (who is saved via tattoos, see above).
All these things can only be done when both hands are empty.

- Throw enemy: You grab an enemy and throw him at another enemy. Max distance is dependant on your strengh. Both enemies (thrown one and target) take damage.

- disarm: You try to take the enemies weapon. If you are successful, you can chose if you want to keep the weapon in your hand or drop it on the ground. Putting it in your inventory costs AP like when you change your equipped weapon. When you drop it, the enemy can try to pick it up. But this provokes attacks of opportunety. This can only be done with humanoid enemies who have a weapon equipped.

- choke: you spend 1AP to choke an enemy. You can do this as often as you want. If you do it at the end of your turn, you will choke the enemy until your next turn and he cannot act. Choke does 50% (or maybe less) damage compared to a normal attack.
Now comes the big disadvantage: While you choke somebody you cannot defend yourself. All enemies get increased hit chance and damage against you. If you get hit while choking somebody, the enemy breaks free and gets an attack of opportunety.

- arrow catcher (passive talent): When your hands are empty, you have a 20% chance to grab arrows shot at you in mid air and put them into your inventory.

- meat shield: (its a stance like some tank abilities) You grab an enemy at the end of your round. When an enemy attacks you with a physical attack until your next turn, you use your grabbed enemy as shield (enemy gets 80%damage, you only 20%)

- some wrestling moves to cripple or knockdown enemies


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #571469
10/10/15 10:02 PM
10/10/15 10:02 PM
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Dark_Ansem Offline

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Dark_Ansem  Offline

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no love for Blood magic?

Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: Dark_Ansem] #571476
11/10/15 01:16 AM
11/10/15 01:16 AM
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Neonivek Offline

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Neonivek  Offline

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How did blood magic go from "Sacrificial and evil magic" into "Blood Control" is beyond me.

Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: Neonivek] #571479
11/10/15 04:16 AM
11/10/15 04:16 AM
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Dr Koin Offline

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Originally Posted by Neonivek
How did blood magic go from "Sacrificial and evil magic" into "Blood Control" is beyond me.


you mean in DOS1?
Well I'd wager it's some kind of play on words. Fire Magic, Earth Magic, Blood magic.


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Re: Skilltree Ideas [Re: transfat] #571498
11/10/15 03:01 PM
11/10/15 03:01 PM
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Dark_Ansem Offline

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I hope we'll be able to add our own schools by modding. Dark Magic and Divine Magic are in for me.

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