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I don't get how this game with all its fundamental flaws has gotten good reviews or is so popular. It's one of the worst single player experiences ever. I mean seriously, every time you turn around there's some idiotic design flaw getting in your way.

This is the worst case scenario of such nit-picky micro-management that has ever existed. I find it insane that anyone would actually enjoy it. Even the basics go out of their way to make it harder to play this game.

For starters, being forced to use either the controller or the keyboard mouse, but not both at the same time, is ridiculously stupid. And not being able to switch from controller to keyboard without exiting the game and having to disconnect the controller and restart is so moronicall ignorant it boggles my mind how the hell you though that was a good idea.

Not having some kind of way to group heal/auto heal after a fight is moronic. Spending 5 minutes to cast individual spells several times to completely heal individual characters (or having each character use potions individually) is moronic. Beds must be magical because they heal characters very quickly yet you can just parks in a spot under a shady tree and get the same benefit?

Having to micromanage inventory is an incredible pain in the ass. Having to deal with each characters inventory separately, especially when buying and selling. No way to separate items into a "junk" pile so you don't have to remember what you want and don't to sell. No way to transfer items to other characters while in trade screen. (Ooh, I want my wizard to have that wand. I have to buy and then exit trade, and then open my inventory and manually send it to him).

Why the hell does resurrecting a dead party member leave them in the same spot? AI character 4 following controlled character idiotically steps on lava and dies. Character 1 casts resurrection on character 4 and charter 4 comes to life, right back on the lava, and instantly dies again. Reload last save and hope it wasn't from 20 minutes ago.

Also, follower AI is ignorant. I go around something but they walk right into it. Whether it is from activating a trap that really have no business being near or for reason walking into, and then out of, some building someone just told me not to go in causing me to have to reload to not have the entire city trying to kick my ass.

Why the hell can so much crap be picked up? Trying to talk to a vendor and accidentally picking up a freaking washtub (A FREAKING WASHTUB?????) and being attacked by both the vendor and the guards...for accidentally picking up a washtub. One of several, like 6, in the immediate area. None of which are actually being used. Yet i get my ass kicked for mistakenly grabbing one. Because the damn controller loses focus from the target . Oh, and that happens in combat too. Have a target highlighted and attack only for the focus to lose just before and you end up just moving to a spot instead of attacking.

And why the hell can't I hide the damn head gear of the characters in controller mode?

That's only the beginning of the list of stupid little crap that makes this one of the most annoying games I have ever played. This is just the worst of it. There's so much more from characters getting stuck on open ground to lack of dialogue options and the computer cheating at RPS.

I will say I enjoy the combat. Except for a few quirks combat is about the only thing done well in this game.






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Do you feel better now that you got it out of your system?

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Inventory management has been indeed a rather weak point - they tried to improve it from the classical edition though.

When you resurrect a character, you can select a place where he comes to life again - that is if you use keyboard and mouse. I haven't used a controller myself, so I don't know about it.

Edit: Just out of curiosity, are you playing the PC or the console version?

Last edited by Elwyn; 20/04/16 07:23 PM.
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I got this on xbox one and it's great. Best turn based game in a long time.

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You don't need to exit the game to switch input methods, just to the main menu (in the options, or hit Esc to get the keyboard/controller prompt again). You also do not need to unplug the controller.

The game does nothing to prevent Alt-Tabbing.

Mass Heal is a master level water spell.
Some people feel auto-healing is moronic, dumbs down the game and removes the consequences of doing poorly in a fight, so how well you do becomes irrelevant, as long as you make it through alive.

Not only can you select the spot to resurrect a dead character, but teleporting to another map will move their body.

NPC reactions to theft depend on your reputation and can involve multiple warnings before calling the guards, which can also just result in a warning, or turning hostile.
You can use the shoulder buttons in combat to cycle between targets.

Do you really want the game to show ties with RPS? Would it be more fun if it took twice as long to get through?

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Originally Posted by Drachehexe
Having to deal with each characters inventory separately, especially when buying and selling.


There you go. I fixed that for you. Figured I'd trim that down to your one legitimate complaint. The rest sounded more like sand in some sensitive areas of the anatomy.

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Quote
The game does nothing to prevent Alt-Tabbing.


Yea it does. Alt Tabbing is impossible while this game is running. I have no issues with any other games.

Quote
When you resurrect a character, you can select a place where he comes to life again


How? You select the spell to cast then move the selector to the character you want to rez and activate the spell. It gives you no option to select a spot for the character to rez after that.

Quote
You don't need to exit the game to switch input methods, just to the main menu (in the options, or hit Esc to get the keyboard/controller prompt again).


Main menu still does no good. Doesn't matter anyway, I can't use both a controller and the keyboard at the same time. A major inconvenience.

Quote
Some people feel auto-healing is moronic, dumbs down the game and removes the consequences of doing poorly in a fight, so how well you do becomes irrelevant, as long as you make it through alive.


Then they're god damn morons. The only difference between activating a rest command that heals my characters in 15 seconds and spending 3 minutes casting several spells to heal my characters individually is literally 2 minutes and 45 seconds. How this dumbs down the game is beyond me because it has zero effect on the difficulty of the game. They must be self righteous bastards thinking they're "true" roleplayers because that 2 minutes and 45 seconds is the "hard way".

As I said, I can see most of these design choices being made with a multiplayer experience in mind, but they are absolutely detrimental to the single player experience and make it no fun to play. I certainly would love to get my money back on this piece of trash and these developers have guaranteed I will not be buying any more of their games.

All I can say is I'm glad I didn't pay full price for this infuriatingly flawed game.

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I can Alt-Tab out of the game, and others have mentioned doing so. If you have problems with that, try a windowed display mode.

There are 2 selections when resurrecting, one for the character (body, marker or portrait) and one for the destination.

Feel free to play games that auto-heal, auto-resurrect, auto-equip, don't have identify or repair mechanisms, etc. You being unable to understand the possibility of anyone else having a different opinion than yourself says more about your own intelligence than theirs.

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Originally Posted by Raze




Feel free to play games that auto-heal, auto-resurrect, auto-equip, don't have identify or repair mechanisms, etc. You being unable to understand the possibility of anyone else having a different opinion than yourself says more about your own intelligence than theirs.


Says the employee. We have your money so fuck you.

Well, fuck you too.

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It is rare to see Raze (almost) losing his cool...

But I get it, Drachehexe just stumble on a game outside his limit of comprehension, and started a tantrum. Nothing new. Considering the tone of his last response, I'd recommend to send him out - permanently - without much of a ceremony. You do not want 'customers' like this guy, and his denial of even the most basic facts (ALT-TAB, for instance) demonstrates that he is not here to discuss, just flame and insult.

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Drachehexe;

You're a little sensitive for someone swearing and insulting everyone else from the get go.

No game can appeal to everyone, and no game is perfect.

Everyone should feel free to play games that have features that appeal to them. Everyone has played games with certain features or components that they did not like, ranging from a minor issue in an otherwise good game to a critical issue that overshadowed the rest of the game. Not just you, everyone.
Not everyone feels the need to insult people on the internet who like things they don't like, though.



mbpopolano24;

It's not even annoying. If people dislike a game that much, they should play something else that they like. Someone insulting people who don't agree with them, without even starting off trying to advocate for certain features or suggest them for the next game, etc, is just strange.

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Raze, it's not that strange for people who bought a game and then disliked it to throw insults and tantrums, just look at the Steam forums for most games. I know the XCOM2 forums were a social disaster back when I cared to check them.

Long story short, the large majority of humanity is just awful.


Now, if we were to have, heavens forbid, constructive criticism from our guest, we might have had something to discuss. As it stands, I can only suggest trying to get a refund, moving on, growing up, learning about what fits one's tastes and what doesn't and leaving those who actually enjoy the game to enjoy the game.


Ban hammers don't fly around here unless there is a strong case for it, mostly involving breaking the rules one accepted when creating an account and most likely didn't read.


And note that I am not an employee of Larian's, I am just a glorified spam cleaner for the more popular forums.


Unless otherwise specified, just an opinion or simple curiosity.
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Originally Posted by EinTroll
Raze, it's not that strange for people who bought a game and then disliked it to throw insults and tantrums, just look at the Steam forums for most games. I know the XCOM2 forums were a social disaster back when I cared to check them.

Long story short, the large majority of humanity is just awful.

There's a reason I don't go to the Steam forums: granted, there's worse places to be, such as the average newspaper comments section, and I am daft enough to go there on occasion. I don't really have an answer to that.

I am actually strong believer that the majority of people are basically good and decent. It's just unfortunate that often the most noticeable are not.

Edit: for the record, lest they get the blame for my opinions, I'm also not a Larian employee, just another volunteer forum cleaner.

Last edited by Vometia; 21/04/16 06:08 PM.

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I feel his pain. I love this game but before this game, I bought wasteland 2 and just hated it. Tried so hard to get into that game but never could, everyone else seem to love it though.

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At least he can play the game without game ending bugs! Right, Raze?!?

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Originally Posted by Bud
I feel his pain. I love this game but before this game, I bought wasteland 2 and just hated it. Tried so hard to get into that game but never could, everyone else seem to love it though.
No alone. I have the same. I played Fallout 1,2 totally swallowed the lore then Wasteland comes - and ... well, I tryed to play, I tryed convince myself that is The Fallout but not, the game doesnt work. I barely past 10% of game.

Randomly discovered DOS, played for half an hour, felt in love.

Maby I am not an majority but I dont need to complain at Wasteland forums that they are fagots who crippled the game. Well It would be waste of my time, they knew it. :-o

Last edited by gGeo; 21/04/16 09:36 PM.
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I feel his pain, but don't support his method or madness. Don't like this game? Fine, go play something else. It's just that simple.

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I think the OP gives valid and illustrated criticism of the game. That he "throws" a tantrum is not really a problem, as I don't think everyone want to be entangled in a pointless "gentlemanly" debate: just want to state his piece and get out. Being angry and spiteful might be his problem, not ours?

Most of OP points are actually workable. Perhaps they are slightly annoying at first, for new players, but you quickly learn to accomodate and focus on the more enjoyable parts of the game, like the fights, as OP mentioned.

There's several tips for inventory management (selling to appropriate merchants, having containers in your inventory...), a little investment in hydrosophist (you really do not need to pick the healing master spell, which is not the best choice at this rank/level to begin with) for group health management, walking more incrementally around lava for path finding management, being wary of what you click on in cities...



Raze, sometimes your comments surprise me. You're supposed to represent the company, and thus I don't think you can lower yourself as much as us (customers, or not - you don't even have to be one to register in this forum?). Most of your post in this thread I feel is fine (aside the master spell in hydro, the adept spell water of life is an AOE healing spell), but I think you'd best avoid "looking" biased. It is difficult indeed, but I think it is effective.

To be more specific, the designers of the game made some choices. Having to repair items is a design choice which can, for instance, force players to get OUT of a dungeon after playing in it for some time (break game immersion to force the player to consider some rest away from the game?), or after playing in it inefficiently (punish inefficiency and force to re-enter dungeon and reset it). Or it can be something that enforces immersion: it is like a simulation of a "real" fantasy world. Or it can be thoughtless copy-paste from the genre itself, a pointless artifact.

Laying out the trade-off as you sometimes do is really nice. But siding is less so: you don't need to as you weren't the designer (I believe?). Some players will prefer one side, others the other side. You don't have to defend ideologically the designer choice: just present the trade-off.

I can't help but notice that, on one side you harshly invite the OP to play "auto healing, auto resurrecting etc..." games (it wasn't his point, which makes it even worse), and stress on how auto-healing outside of combat might not be on boat with the game's overall design, but on the other side you say that it's best for the RPS mini game to artificially get rid of the ties (when it involves AI). This is inconsistent taken at face value (less so when you lay out the context, design-wise, of those features, but that's the problem when you debate like that with users).



It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. Designers make choices that will "hurt" some players and rejoice some others. Aknowledge (or ignore, but don't abrase) and move on.

Perhaps customers will be abrasive and whatnot, but unless you yourself are really cool when you're abrasive (sick buuuurn!), I think it's best not to stoop at that level. You want to defend the game's interest, not delve on your customer's character. If a customer is abrasive to the point of disruption, then take action, but why even adress it otherwise?

If you attack somebody's intelligence when this person makes, perhaps unelegantly, some good point, you might alienate those who agree with this point (and there might be plenty, as designers do make choice). This is dangerous because those points can be, all things considered, really secondary.

Last edited by Chrest; 22/04/16 01:16 PM.
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I pointed out the other side to illustrate that there are reasons some people like things the OP does not. Unsurprisingly, the OP just doubled down with the insults. There was, however, a small chance that someone asking why a game was popular would be interested in why a game was popular, so I did mention that for one of the points.

I did not "harshly" say anything. It was maybe slightly dismissive, but the OP ignored everyone who agreed with some points, ignored help except to challenge it's validity and just got more abusive in response to answering questions, so the only thing left if you don't like a game, and aren't at all concerned with debate or giving feedback, is to play games you do like.

I don't see how it makes anything "even worse" to mention there are games that automate things in addition to what the OP specifically brought up.

RPS is mostly a game of chance. The only skill involved is figuring out which pattern the NPC is using so you can predict the next move. Showing ties would not add anything, just make the process longer. Nobody has ever said the lack of ties breaks immersion or that they would prefer if it were more 'realistic'; that I recall, it is pretty much only mentioned to complain that the game cheats.
There is skill involved in combat, and how your characters end up after combat is a reflection of how well you do. Auto healing eliminates consequences for doing poorly, so makes a difference to the mood of combat and flow of the game. Some people may prefer one over the other, to a lesser or greater extent, but there are reasons not to auto-heal.

In general, pointing out that someone's continued abusive language and/or behaviour (when they are insulting the intelligence of others) does not exactly present their own intelligence / maturity in the best light is the least invasive way to address the matter. In theory, that could cause them to take a look at their behaviour and possibly modify it. Of course, that's not very likely, if they don't do so on their own after calming down from a post made in anger or frustration, but it could happen.
For the OP, I did not attack his intelligence, or even give a direct opinion on it (don't really have one). I made a statement which is factually (as far as the evidence available) and logically true, but which could have very simply been refuted by the OP. Even a basic 'I understand, but they're wrong' would have been a step up in logic and behaviour.

I made no blanket statements about people or groups, and nothing I said should alienate anyone (arguably not even the OP). I made a very specific 'if A then B' statement. It doesn't matter if you agree with some or all of the OP's points; if (on any topic at all, in matters of taste) you can't understand that people can have opinions different than yours, and classify everyone who disagrees with you an idiot, that says more about your own intelligence than theirs. It wouldn't matter if you agreed with me on everything, that would still apply.

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Poor Raze. I would jump in front of a bus if my job was to put up with all the crying and complaining the forums provide. Thank god i grew up in the 90s. People didnt realize how awful they could be yet. If you dont like the game, play something else. If you don't like what he says, read another forum. I'm part of the problem just typing this but seriously where does it end? This game is fantastic. People worked hard to make it. Its not perfect but who cares? Right guys?....Guys?

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