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Originally Posted by termathor
@Eldarth,

I've read your last 2 posts, and I really agree with every single word. Top posts, by the way !
It seems to me you fired the NWN editor recently, yes ? hehe
I seem to see some NWN related things ...

As for programming languages, which also was my job long ago, I think it is totally true adventure creators need ease of use, without requiring high language skills, or photoshop skills. So that means a language with triggers, if-then-else, and other basic stuff.

At contrary, modders don't mind the complexity of C, C++ etc ...

Both population are different in essence, and should be addressed accordingly.

Not a single 'true adventure creator' needs more 'ease of use' than already exists. The existing script languages in the game are simple as hell and pretty easy to learn, much easier than any better known programming languages.

The only problem, there is hardly any documentation at all for the API, and this makes scripting look 'complex'.
Using the existing languages is easy, understanding what all of the pre-defined API calls/queries/'events' do is hard as hell without documentation. (Because there are so many hidden details, that cannot be guessed by the API's names.)
No matter what new language they introduced, without API documentation, the situation would not improve at all, only syntax would change.
So I'd be totally against introducing any kind of new language since it would not get easier.

Instead I'd be all for releasing at least some documentation and on top of that more 'official presence' in the modding forum to answer questions, because it is in reality impossible to document every possible case in a released documentation.

The engine allows for great flexibility and with that flexibility comes a great lot of API calls (a lot more are even still missing), so the 'api documentation problem' needs to be solved, there is no 'language problem'.

Currently, modders have to do the trial-and-error method to find out how everything works for themselves, and if they happen to forget to share newfound insights in the forum, everybody has to do that again and again.

The tutorial videos Larian made when DOS first came out can serve as a very basic start, but they are far from sufficient.

Learning how to programm C (or C++) does not mean that you can program write programs for Windows without any further introduction (to concepts like messaging and a lot more) and documentation of the Windows API itself. (So basically, you need to get more information than what 'Kernighan & Ritchie' teaches you.)

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Any plans to allow persistent worlds?


"I don't make games to make money, I make money to make games". (Swen Vincke)
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Originally Posted by 4verse
Any plans to allow persistent worlds?

Persistent world like WoW?
There are no Larian servers and won't be any. So I don't think any persistent stuff is in the planing soon.

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Originally Posted by norD
Originally Posted by 4verse
Any plans to allow persistent worlds?

Persistent world like WoW?
There are no Larian servers and won't be any. So I don't think any persistent stuff is in the planing soon.


I was thinking of a persistent world ala Neverwinter. But again, DOS2 is not a MMORPG.

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
I was thinking of a persistent world ala Neverwinter. But again, DOS2 is not a MMORPG.


I think 4verse meant ala Neverwinter Nights, not Neverwinter the MMO.


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Originally Posted by Windemere
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
I was thinking of a persistent world ala Neverwinter. But again, DOS2 is not a MMORPG.


I think 4verse meant ala Neverwinter Nights, not Neverwinter the MMO.


There is only Neverwinter Nights for me.

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Windemere
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
I was thinking of a persistent world ala Neverwinter. But again, DOS2 is not a MMORPG.


I think 4verse meant ala Neverwinter Nights, not Neverwinter the MMO.


There is only Neverwinter Nights for me.


/this hehe


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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Windemere
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
I was thinking of a persistent world ala Neverwinter. But again, DOS2 is not a MMORPG.


I think 4verse meant ala Neverwinter Nights, not Neverwinter the MMO.


There is only Neverwinter Nights for me.


cool2

Agreed. Your comparing it to an MMORPG threw me. I've never considered NWN to be an MMORPG.


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Originally Posted by Windemere
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Windemere
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
I was thinking of a persistent world ala Neverwinter. But again, DOS2 is not a MMORPG.


I think 4verse meant ala Neverwinter Nights, not Neverwinter the MMO.


There is only Neverwinter Nights for me.


cool2

Agreed. Your comparing it to an MMORPG threw me. I've never considered NWN to be an MMORPG.


Maybe MMORPG is a bit excessive. but certainly multiplayer online.

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How massive does the multiplayer have to be before it's massively multiplayer?

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Originally Posted by Ayvah
How massive does the multiplayer have to be before it's massively multiplayer?


who knows... 100.000 users?

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Ayvah
How massive does the multiplayer have to be before it's massively multiplayer?


who knows... 100.000 users?

IMO the only thing that is needed to have an MMORPG is persistent world and social interaction in the world as a second important thing.
There is no specific number to create an MMORPG.
But well, this is not the goal of this specific topic :P

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem

Maybe MMORPG is a bit excessive. but certainly multiplayer online.


Yeah, it was a QMORPG, with the accent on quality rather than massively. smile I'm thinking that Shards Online is the only thing in development right now that really tries to capture that old persistent world vibe.


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Most of the things I would like for the mod tools have been suggested, but I wanted to post this anyway, so it's visible that here is another user who is interested in these features. smile

The most important for me now that there is a dedicated team for the tools: better documentation, especially about the scripting part (which functiones exist, what does a function, what is returned from the function etc.).

What I would love to have from the mod tools is the power to make total conversions like Enderal [0] for Skyrim, Nehirim for Oblivion etc. (if the team is motivated enough, and the total conversions don't have to be this huge).

But my idea is smaller: I want to create Mafia (the party game) [1] with a few changes and twists with D:OS2. laugh

This includes the official ability to import new static meshes, as well as new animated meshes like players, monsters etc. without relying on other players to create tools like these (if this is not possible due to licensing issues please communicate this in the forums when the game is released).

But also the ability to compose new music and sound effects and import them, as well as the ability to create new spelleffects (maybe with a particle editor inside the editor) and to import them.

This way we could for example make a sci-fi total conversion that has turn based battles like D:OS2, with unique spells/abilities, space stations instead of cities, but also uses the cool interactivity between characters from D:OS2 etc.

What I would also like is the ability for mods to use more players, and the gui (btw: I love your guis!) to support this when the game is started and the player has to create more than 2 chars.

[0] http://sureai.net/games/enderal/?lang=en
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_%28party_game%29

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Not sure if this was mentioned before, and not sure if its the right place to ask/suggest this, but...

Morph Targets...

Does the Divinity Engine 3 supports it? Because one of the things I enjoy the most when I mod, is to tie/link the game progression to a visual/graphic component, like you had on Fable games (have done mods like that for Skyrim and XCOM 2).

For example, what I had in mind would be something like, the more you invest in stats such as strength/constitution/bodybuilding, the bigger/bulkier/muscular the character would become. Also... changing materials to properly update the normal maps to achieve the same purpose =P

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Originally Posted by Vector
Not sure if this was mentioned before, and not sure if its the right place to ask/suggest this, but...

Morph Targets...

Does the Divinity Engine 3 supports it? Because one of the things I enjoy the most when I mod, is to tie/link the game progression to a visual/graphic component, like you had on Fable games (have done mods like that for Skyrim and XCOM 2).

For example, what I had in mind would be something like, the more you invest in stats such as strength/constitution/bodybuilding, the bigger/bulkier/muscular the character would become. Also... changing materials to properly update the normal maps to achieve the same purpose =P


It suuuuuuuuuucks but the general consensus is that people don't like that.

They want their super strong lithe characters and hate strong characters showing any muscle just because they are strong.

Which is a shame because I loved that part of Fable.

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Originally Posted by Neonivek
Which is a shame because I loved that part of Fable.

It's a good idea, but Fable implemented it poorly. I had a warrior woman. Eventually I added one point to strength, and she went from an athletic figure to being irreversibly fat. Not just muscle. I'm talking about some serious weight gain.

The most important thing is that the game remains attractive. If you want to reflect the character's stats in their appearance, you need to do it without undermining the attractiveness of the game.

Anyway, I think it's safe to say it's beyond the scope of D:OS2. Maybe the next one. XD

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Originally Posted by Neonivek

It suuuuuuuuuucks but the general consensus is that people don't like that.

They want their super strong lithe characters and hate strong characters showing any muscle just because they are strong.

Which is a shame because I loved that part of Fable.


There are still a lot of ppl who think otherwise. I remember when I posted a video preview of my XCOM 2 mod on reddit, it harnessed a great deal of attention and positive feedback.

Originally Posted by Ayvah

It's a good idea, but Fable implemented it poorly.


I agree with that, and either it was male or female characters, it was kinda meh... but what I like is the concept/design of having your character's body/look change according to its build/class

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@NorD when will modding tools be testable? already in EA?

Last edited by 4verse; 24/08/16 11:28 AM.

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Originally Posted by 4verse
@NorD when will modding tools be testable? already in EA?
That is a huge question, if this is all post release this probably won't turn out to well in terms of adoption.

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