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#589295 25/09/16 09:58 PM
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Acesahn Offline OP
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Im pretty disappointed with how they decided to model the lizard race. In Dragon Commander, they were dignified, graceful, and elegant. I really was looking foreword to creating a character to make her look as much like princess Camilla, whose character design I just adored, but taking a look at what we have to work with in DOSII... they look feral, savage, uncivilized, with necks twice as long as they used to be, and faces so alien and beast like, they make the lizard diplomat and Edmund look humanoid in comparison. Im hoping they add a humanoid looking face to the mix for them, because they look closer to savages, then the dignified diplomats and spell casters they are supposed to be.

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Lizards are perfect.

If you want to play colorful long-people, that's the Elves niche this time around.

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Ironically they are the only race I like a lot (aesthetically) in the game so far.

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I would like to see a second body type for all races smile

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I disagree, I hated the way Camilla looked, it reminded me of the Navi straight out of Avatar. Nevermind how she looked completely unlike both Edmund, AND the other female Lizard in the game. She was flatout like a different species altogether, so much so that I expected her to be mocked or criticized for looking like an inferior human.

The only criticism I have for the lizards right now, is that the necks seem a tiny bit too long, and the male heads and 'hair' being somewhat inferior in quality to the female options.

Last edited by Nivv; 25/09/16 11:03 PM.
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My biggest complaint is how awkward the animations are as of right now. The Lizard Female animations for the bow are grossly exaggerated, and somewhat unrealistic, from my experience...

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I respectfully disagree that Lizards look savage and uncivilized. Acesahn, you seem to be making a lot of unfounded assumptions.

It seems to me that you are of the opinion that only human-looking individuals can be civilized. This is obviously not true, since the quality of being civilized is not dependent on appearance. [Cambridge Dictionary]

I think that Lizards look excellent, including their long necks. Their models and animations are fitting to their species, while their necks help accentuate just how different they. Larian did an admirable job with them.


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I would like some special armor graphics for the lizards feet something that fits the feet however not just a default boot its cool that they have a different foot shape than every other race but it is hard to put on boots and still see them running around barefoot it just doesn't seem right.

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What? I love the lizard animations. Especially I like how the female ones are a weird mix or birdlike but also feminine. The fact that you can recognize humanoid movements in them but also something else really sells them as a convincing species with widely differing anatomy in my mind. I also like how frigging tall they are. I have a tendency to go for height extremes. So I enjoy either being a tiny gnome smashing kneecaps, or to tower over everyone else.

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одно слово,черная чешуя для игрока, даешь черного принца !
красному нужен соперник)

one word, the black scales to the player, giving the Black Prince!
Red needs opponent)

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Originally Posted by IcySteps
It seems to me that you are of the opinion that only human-looking individuals can be civilized. This is obviously not true, since the quality of being civilized is not dependent on appearance. [Cambridge Dictionary]

I actually like the look of the lizards, but this is an absurd way to justify it.

They absolutely look more barbaric, and their biology is literally more savage (pointed teeth and fire breath). Of course, culture is different from biology, and I'm very comfortable with that contradiction.

That said, if you have experience from previous games that told you to expect something like Princess Camilla, then I can appreciate the feeling of disappointment. I'd be pretty disappointed if the next Mass Effect game dramatically changed the appearance of the Asari.

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Ayvah, I disagree with Acesahn's position that only human-looking individuals can be civilized. I simply made an argument against his, because I am interested in his counterarguments. I was not trying to justify anything.

"savage: extremely violent, wild, or frightening; barbaric: extremely cruel and unpleasant" [Cambridge Dictionary]

It seems, that as far as appearance is concerned, savage and barbaric qualities are entirely dependent on subjective opinions and emotions. If, for example, you find a species' appearance frightening or wild, they can easily seem savage to you. However, this will not mean that the same species is objectively savage.

I like you, Ayvah. I am not sure what you are trying to do here.

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To simplify:

He complained that "they look feral, savage, uncivilized". I infer this to mean that he feels they should be civilised, but their appearance is a contradiction to this. He doesn't like this.

You made a valid point that looks are subjective anyway, but you spent a lot of time dwelling on your point that civilization is literally cultural, which misses the point. He said they look uncivilized.

The following statement, while subjective, should not be controversial. "they look feral, savage, uncivilized [...] and faces so alien and beast like"

I agree that it's a contradiction for a civilized race to look so wild, but I think that contradiction can be justified by context.

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At the beginning of my first post, I handily summarized my point. I quote:
Originally Posted by IcySteps
I respectfully disagree that Lizards look savage and uncivilized.

This is the only statement I have been arguing for. I disagree that I missed any point, since I haven't made any other.

Originally Posted by Ayvah
You made a valid point that looks are subjective anyway, but you spent a lot of time dwelling on your point that civilization is literally cultural, which misses the point. He said they look uncivilized.

However, earlier, I have said:
Originally Posted by IcySteps
It seems to me that you are of the opinion that only human-looking individuals can be civilized. This is obviously not true, since the quality of being civilized is not dependent on appearance. [Cambridge Dictionary]

It seems to me that I was exclusively talking about appearance.

I've also argued against them looking objectively savage. If you agree that savage appearance cannot be objectively identified, then there is no point in arguing about it.

Lastly, you seem to indicate that you find their appearance wild, which appears to you as a contradiction to the fact that they are civilized. It seems to me that this is your opinion, about which there is no point in arguing, either.

Your post, however, does not shed any light on just what you are really trying to do here.

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Originally Posted by Naqel
Lizards are perfect.

If you want to play colorful long-people, that's the Elves niche this time around.

Indeed. I hate that so many rpges that have multiple races they all are something of a human with different colors of skin or hair or pointy ears.

I am very very very happy that larian made the lizards look more exotic and not just Argonian copies. Lizards are sentient reptilians. Not humans with reptilian genes spliced into them.

That being said. I am sure modders will make at some point less "savage" version of lizards. For my taste they could make them even more so. Or more exotic races.

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Originally Posted by DraconicGaming
The Lizard Female animations for the bow are grossly exaggerated, and somewhat unrealistic, from my experience...


I agree. I've too seen some lizard people use bows, and their in game animations look nothing like how they do in real life.

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I disagree. I like the way the lizards (and every other race) looks.

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Originally Posted by IcySteps
I've also argued against them looking objectively savage. If you agree that savage appearance cannot be objectively identified, then there is no point in arguing about it.

I am really confused about how you're making your point.

However, I will point out that they are objectively savage in appearance and biology.

The Human's special ability is leadership. The lizard's special ability is breathing fire as an attack. The lizards have sharp claws, and a large mouth filled with carnivorous teeth. This is indisputably violent, therefore savage.

In fact, humans are easily the least violent or savage out of all the races in terms of biology. Dwarves are extra strong and built for damage. Elves are cannibalistic. However, lizards the ones who unambiguously look savage.

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Yeah, humans look less savage, but they can be the most evil of all anyway. wink


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Although I understand that the lizards are fond of slavery? And the Red Prince mentioned that if he were anything but a Prince, then he would have been killed at birth.

They may not be as civilized as their wardrobe and cities imply.

(Also true of many humans.)

Last edited by Ayvah; 26/09/16 11:06 PM.
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