Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Fleeing seems overpowered *spoilers within*

Doesn't have to be made a priority to be a recognized problem :P Saying Z needs more work isn't the same as saying problem Z is more important than problem X

Except it doesn't need more work.....people complaining about this simply hate the idea that others might be having fun and want to ruin something another may enjoy. There is nothing else to this. There is no negative effect here, you aren't suffering any negative consequences or aything negative by not leaving if you don't like leaving. There is no reason to complain unless you are out to ruin something for others.

And no one is suffering any consequence by the fact that 1 point in sneak means AI can't touch you in combat the moment you walk behind them....

Is sneaking find the way it is? Should someone just not use it if it's that exploitable and they feel it's op?

Cause that's your argument

If you're behind they shouldn't see you because that's not how eyes work.....seems simple common sense. What exactly are you complaining about?

If you sneak attack and they haven't seen you and don't know where you are then you should be able to walk up behind them and do whatever all you want.....a lot better than the completely broken and unusable stealth system in DOS that just didn't work at all.

If a character has 1 in sneak and does this sequence of events:

Step 1: get all enemies facing one direction (this is pretty easy)

Step 2: Stand behind one enemy and end each turn in sneak

Step 3: AI will stand there at the end of every one of your turns doing nothing

.......You can exploit this to beat the entire game with fists if ya want. The AI basically can never find you and thus never targets you in combat for anything...letting you just wail on them over the course of each fight as long as you end your turn in sneak each time.

Might as well tell the AI never to attack anyone, right? Why make me hit the extra button and take that much longer?

EDIT:
Don't even have to move. Just hit C at the end of each turn with your last AP. Instant immortality

That's a case of the game being in alpha.....enemies will react and turn and all the rest in the final game. Which means that if up close a stealth attack will draw attention unless you kill your target in one hit. Distance sneak attacks should(at higher levels) still leave you undetected....especially magic spells you don't shoot out of your fists. That sort of stuff. For now it is good they are working the stealth system to be functional.

But thats your argument: It's an exploitable combat mechanic that hurts no one and we have the free option to not use it.

So it's not a problem according to your logic concerning flee. Fixing it can take away from the "fun" other players have using it. Or maybe they should leave it in as an option? Like choose if 1 sneak = immortality at the start of new game?

Not the same thing at all....you should be able to flee. If you are fast and stealthy and can hit and teleport then yeah....that works wonders and it should. It's a tactic.....one that requires the player to think and be clever....these are the things that the game has to reward big. As long as the enemy doesn't see you and you can run circles around them it's fine.....a perfect way to go about building a glass cannon build...something that was simply impossible in DOS. Stealth and glass cannon builds and all these things are things that should work.

Now you're adding qualifiers:
Requires players to think and be clever
Shouldnt let you run circles around enemies

These are the same qualifiers everyone is concerned with. Flee is overpowered. It requires no thought to use and lets you circle enemies through said use. No one said remove it.

Just as you said the game is/needs to be modified so stealth =/= immortality. Flee should not equal instant win through picking off enemies one by one; that's not a tactic. That's like saying "well, if you shoot the barrel in the corner at each encounter it'll kill at least one enemy, heal you, let you restock all consumables, and stun all the enemies for a turn, and re spawn so you can do it again." <- That's bad.

I am just going to say this out-right, aj0413, but you're wrong.

Fleeing permanently takes away your dignity. It's something you'll never live down and when you're on your death-bed you'll suddenly recall that you fled from the AI instead of dying.

When you're at a job interview and someone asks what your strengths and weaknesses are, you'll break down and cry inside because you lost to an AI and had to flee instead of dying and learning from your foolishness.

Or something.

I dunno'.

\o/ Hey! I knew I was missing someone here!

That....is strangely the most compelling argument for leaving flee in game as is. Reminds me of difficulty slider in Oblivion. I could slide it easy....but that's the pussies way out and I ain't no yellow bellied, goat sniffing, gun lovin, armor wearin coward! I am a hobo barbarian and I'll beat you all with my meat bicycle!

Add 10 minute cooldown to flee?
Add 2 turn cooldown to stealth?
Still useable?
Still abuseable?

Meh the real issue is that the AI responding to players trying to abuse these would be the best way.

Making it take longer just makes it a more patient man game.

Devs said they plan to add AI searching for stealth characters in combat, so that's coming.

An AI response to players fleeing would discourage constant use would be ideal. Hell just make a karma system wear NOCs look down you and drive buying prices up and selling prices down

If the dev team has the resources to solve the problem instead of just remove the problem thats a good solution too.
Karma system to prevent flee spam sounds reasonable too.

Unlike cheat codes, mechanic exploits often feel like semi-legitimate ways to play a game since they are natural consequences of the game rules, which is why they could violate the sense of accomplishment for some players that don't use them.

For a pure singleplayer game no one absolutely interested about how do you play a game includes cheating exploiting moding etc.
But in this game there are possible multiplayer aspects which are advertised and calucated into the games price.
If someone buys a game and found out in the multiplayer part everything is an abusefest then the buyer can be disapointed with the product cuz for his/her playstyle the x part of the game which he/she paid as well is totaly unuseable for him or her.

Well we could argue about this on and on. I am just pointing about leave abusable things in this game can lead to unsatisfied custumers which is bad for the company.
An at this point you have no ask yourself which buyer layer do you want to satisfy more, the "casual" or the "hardcore".

Save scumming, Fleeing, barrels, sneaking, using cheat codes, difficulty adjustments, etc.

It's an open world for you to exploit, do as you please.

Developers might have a preference to how they want you to experience the story at the end of the day which means if you want to follow that path you better suppress your desire to exploit those things.

The developers pushing resources towards dealing with issues of stealth seems to indicate, for me, that it is core to their experience they intend while fleeing has some restrictions it ultimately isn't that big of a deal because you'll just reload and try again for a better outcome or the entire purpose is for the player to test out his or her tactical skills not cheese the system down.

Yet, leaving cheese in and not dealing with it probably indicates leniency or creative solutions. After all, there are speed runs, glitch runs, ironman mode etc etc.

At some point trying to adjust or fix a mechanic becomes way too heavy and you either say it's a broken mechanic or just let it happen because it fits with the system's goal which is to associate with certain playstyles.

tl;dr every system has a breaking point, so it's give and take across various playstyles.

You aren't competing against anyone except in the arena, stealth should probably be fixed just for that alone. Everything else is built on the implicit agreement that the goal is to cooperate and maximize everyone's fun -- if you're abusing something and other people aren't having fun then you're a troll and will probably be kicked out of the game.



You'll end up seeing game titles like "No Fleeing/Exploiting" or something we're people are laying out the terms they wish to co-op under.

This is not really the kind of game where you can divide the 'casual' and 'hardcore' since, outside of the arena, there is no concept of 'shared space'.

Well yes the main goal is to maximise every participants fun.
A thing that came into my mind is back the days when I played heroes 3 multiplayer there were lots of games with no levitation spell rules in the tittle. Well guess what there were players who does not stick with this rule and the game turned about a massive waste of time. (cosider this for an example)
How better it would be to remove/nerf/limit/optout the spell.
I understand what you are saying. Basicly for an example if you limit the flee capability some players experience will suffer but we must acknowledge that if we don't some others experience will.
I am not stating that this game should have abuseproof levels as an MMO has to have but we should show some efforts to try.

So you guys are saying that the Flee button should be considered a cheat, and shouldn't be considered a part of the normal game?