Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Many people are wondering whether DND 5e (or other game systems) could be recreated in D:OS2. The short answer is that the fundamental systems, for the most part, could be implemented and automated, rather than requiring manual rolls by DM and players for almost everything. Obviously things like new races, adding all the spells, achieving proper balance, and so forth would be a ton of work, but the fundamentals might not be as difficult as one might think.

I'm going to go over what essential systems should be possible and how one might go about converting the game into DnD 5e for the GM mode. Naturally there will be some necessary hybridization between D:OS2 systems and DnD, but much of the spirit of DnD should be replicable. This is more about curiosity than actual plans, but if I got enough interest and some help, I'd consider actually doing this. Obviously this is a massive endeavor, so I'd be curious about what aspects of DnD 5E people would be most interested in. Probably the order of the concepts below is roughly the priority I'd work in. This thread mostly assumes you know the DnD 5e system, but you can reference this page for most things.

The goal here is to automate many things so players don't have to micromanage every little thing. But the more complicated a feature is, the more likely a GM or player may have to roleplay the systems or act with honor to not abuse mechanics. Ideally, combat will be slick but with lots of options, character and inventory sheet management will largely be automatic, and there will be more of a DnD, slightly more toned down vibe rather than the slight arcadey, ultra-high magic fantasy that is D:OS2.


Attributes

The D:OS2 attributes are fairly similar to DnD 5e. Attributes could be renamed and existing effects either removed or scaled differently. Probably primary attributes would increase damage by 10-15% per point or so. Strength and dexterity should be able to affect hit chance, probably a 5% bonus per point, with a 50-70% hit chance by default. All armor would provide a dodge chance as a form of AC.

Memory would probably be replaced with charisma. Starting attributes amounts will be tweakable, with the GM probably being able to subtract attributes for values less than 10. Attribute gain with leveling can be changeable to 2 points every 4 level system (or 1 attribute every two levels, which IMO is a bit smoother of a progression).

To simplify things, I would suggest that the conversion of each point in an attribute above 10 to a roll bonus go from 1:1 (11 dex = +1, 13 dex = +3 bonus, etc.), rather than the 1:2 system (where 12-13 = +1, 14-15 = +2, etc.) I've always found this kind of inelegant,though it made sense to scale down numbers for tabletop play. Scaling down is less important when most things are automated, and a 1:1 ratio would be more intuitive.



Combat Fundamentals

DnD 5e uses a system of one action, one bonus action, reactions, and movement.

There's a couple ways to go implementing this sort of system: a 1 AP system, giving every character The Pawn talent (free 1 AP worth of movement, base movement amount would probably be doubled), and any sort of bonus action "skills" costing 0 AP.

There may have to be a way to limit bonus actions, or it would be an honor system. Unless there's some way to allow a character to continue their turn even with 0 AP, this has the downside that you would have to move and use your bonus actions first, and then your primary action. Otherwise, it would be fairly similar to the essential components.

All attacks and spells except bonus actions would be reduced to a 1 AP cost. Extra attacks would be 0 AP skills that you use before you main attack.

Hit chance and damage for all weapon attacks would use the current hit chance/damage system of D:OS2 to represent dice rolls.

Spell attack rolls are a bit tricky, since spells can't be dodged. Either spells could always hit, and take a damage reduction or something to compensate, or another solution.

There could be several custom skills defined for special attacks like shoving or grappling, or non-attack actions, like dodge (basically a +25-30% dodge status on yourself), disengage, help (grant an ally a hit chance buff or something). Dodge would essentially increase your dodge chance, disengage temporarily grant avoid opportunists talent. Dashing would be just using your action AP to move farther. Readying simple actions (like, I'll attack them if they come at me) may be possible, though that could be pretty complicated to script for more complicated things (I'll ready this spell and cast it on my ally if they are attacked.)

In general, most reactions will be a little tough, since a lot of reactions are things like "when a character attacks you, roll a dice to see if you can dodge/return attack/reduce damage/etc." Lots of reactions will probably need tweaks.


Initiative order could automatically randomized at the beginning of combat behind the scenes, taking into account dexterity. The GM could set a surprised status on characters which would essentially be a stun.

Likely not much other than oil would count as "difficult terrain", though the GM could apply a movement speed penalty if it seemed appropriate.

Cover would be difficult to implement, though the GM could potentially give characters a "covered" status which increases dodge when appropriate (e.g., standing on a balcony behind a low wall, shooting down at enemies).


A 2 AP system could also work, which would make action order less important, but there'd need to be ensure players only use one primary action per turn. Should be possible to do so with the mute and disarm statuses after using an action, though that's slightly clunky. Of course, the honor system works for that too. May be the best way to go about it though.




Saving Throws and the Armor System

The armor system could be totally ditched in favor of a pure dodge and saving throw system, but I think a hybrid system could work here. I've already created a resist system that scales with remaining armor and other factors, and this would work nicely with DnD I think. All these saves would happen behind the scenes, but it would be nice if scripts could trigger a dice roll that would determine things, so there'd be a bit more of that DnD flavor. A command like:

RollDice(_Roll,_DiceSize,_Bonuses,_DC,_Character,INT:_AllSee) // This would show a dice roll of the dice size to either just that character or everyone if AllSee is 1. If the roll + bonuses was above the DC, it would count as a true statement for scripts.

Some things would be harder to give a saving throw. For example, I'm not sure how one would implement a dexterity saving throw on the damage a fireball deals. Maybe on casting a skill like firebal, every character within the caster range would roll to dodge, and gain a momentary 50% fire resistance if they succeed. Clunky, but could work. AOE saves are probably something not super important, just have to be balanced for.



Classes & Leveling

The leveling system should be scalable to whatever rate the GM wants. Existing skill trees could be replaced with DnD classes, their existing bonuses nixxed or reduced. Or a sort of hybrid system could be adopted, where the existing D:OS2 abilities are largely retained, perhaps reduced in effect somewhat, in addition to the DnD class levels. This would offer more customization. In this case, though, the GM would have to manually provide the features for each level. Or, an inventory item could be used to trigger leveling up and automatically add certain features.

Implementing every spell and class feature would be a daunting task. There'd have to be somewhat of a hybrid system between existing skills and spells, at least until enough was implemented. Some classes will be easier to add than others, like monk, compared to a caster like a sorcerer, with dozens of spells and different ways to manipulate them.



Example 1: Monk

A monk would either be unarmed or use swords, daggers, or other simple weapons, and simple clothes or robes. Probably there wouldn't really be a way or worth it to enforce this with the game systems, so instead the GM would just apply penalties to monks who used other weapons or armor. You'd gain a dodge bonus based on your dexterity and perception (wits).

At level 1 you'd gain a 0 AP bonus action skill that allows you to make a low-damage melee attack as a bonus action.

At level 2, you'd gain the ki feature, which would either use the source point system, or an inventory item that would measure how many remain ki points you have and depletes as us you use ki skills. You'd gain the Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind skills as skills that would use ki points when you use them. It should be possible to disable these skills or make them non-functional when you have no ki.

Functionally, Patient Defense would apply the Dodge effect to you, and Step of the Wind would either grant 50% movement bonus or the ability to avoid opportunity attacks, or possibly both, or it could be split into two seperate skills.

At level 3, you gain arrow reflection feature, which could be a little difficult to implement, but not necesarilly impossible. This may be the kind of thing where a GM would have to say, "Ok, I'm going to attack you with this archer, do you want to roll for a chance to reflect?" But maybe it could be automated somehow.

You also get to choose a monastic tradition. Let's say you choose Way of the Open Hand, which enhances your flurry of blows skill. You'd basically receive three different variations of flurry of blow, one to knock enemies back, one to knock them down, and another to disable their reactions and attack of opportunities.

Something like the Slow Fall feature at level 4, which let's you reduce falling damage, would probably be something the GM would account for in roleplayed scenes, rather than some combat feature that could be automated, but there's potential. For example, I'm imagining every character will have access to a short range leap that would typically be used to jump from a height down below, or across a gap. While I'm not sure if it would be possible to require a dice roll for the jump skill itself, you could roll to see if you take damage or fall down when jumping down, and slow fall could heavily mitigate these downsides.

And so on and so forth. As you can see, much can be replicated with skills. Several things might have to be roleplayed around, but overall a lot of it could be seamlessly automated.

To be totally honest though, a monk sounds like it would be a little boring to play combat-wise in the D:OS setting with those limited sets of skills. So I think there's still lots of room for homebrewing in additional monk skills, existing skills (e.g., crippling blow, whirlwind attacks, etc.) and features that are interesting and give them other things to play with in combat.



Example 2: Cleric

Many cleric spells are already represented in D:OS2 in some form, so this would be a fairly easy class to at least partially translate into D:OS2. Like the monk's ki system, spell slots could be represented with inventory items that indiciate remaining spell slots for each level. The memory system would also be fairly useful for the cleric, since they can only memorize a limited number of spells at once, though the GM might have to manually grant memory slots or something if slots are removed from the actual memory stat (This might be a bit tricky). At worst, all spells in the game will just cost 0 memory and it will be somewhat of an honor system about choosing spells to "memorize."

There are many rough corollaries among the water spells. Regeneration = cure wounds. Bless = a stronger version of the DnD bless. Rain = the create part of Create and Destroy Water. Magic Shell = Restoration. It's a judgment call about how much to change these spells to match the DnD versions. Bless is the most different of these listed, a strong single target spell vs. a weak multi target spell. I prefer the D:OS2 version, which would be much more balanced with spell slots anyway, but the DnD version could be added seperately.

Going through the rest of the level 1 spells, let's see what would be easy, and what tough.

Bane = reduce attack and saves of 3 enemies. Fairly easy, similar question of whether this could replace curse or be a variant.

Command = easy to make a status that can be saved against, but the GM would probably have to handle the behavior of the character since it can do many things.

Detect Evil and Good; Detect Magic; Detect Poison and Diseases = probably just spells that you just say that you use, rather than making actual scripted effects for. Maybe detect magic could make magical items not inside a container show a visual effect or something, but that's tough.

Radiant Bolt = easy, although there's no radiant damage. Probably would just do fire damage instead, maybe half fire and half piercing, or some other way to represent radiant damage. Would reduce character's dodge chance by 30% or so until it is attacked.

Healing Word = easy 0 AP bonus action heal.

Inflict Wounds = piercing damage attack (Necrotic damage = piercing in my book).

Purify Food and Drink = probably just a roleplay kind of spell, but some fancy scripting could make it automatically convert poisoned food into regular food, which would be pretty cool.

Protection from Good and Evil = a bit tough, but could be possible. May be possible to grant a status to a character which checks when certain character types attack them, and temporarily grant dodge chance, damage resistance and charm/fear immunity, though it's tough to make that actually effective without interfering with non-evil/good enemies if they are in the same fight. Most fights are probably with purely evil or good characters, so could be roleplayed around.

Sanctuary = Requiring a wisdom saving throw on attack would be hard to apply at the moment, but could be changed to just grant a 30% dodge chance and damage resistance or something, but disappears on the character attacking.

Magic Shield = Easy, just a +dodge status.

Turn undead can easily be created, basically a mass fear skill that only affects characters tagged as undead (characters have "tags" in root templates which can be checked by skills).

As the spells become more powerful and have more dramatic effects, they are harder to implement. Take Magic Circle, a spell that locks enemies of certain types within an area and makes them have disadvantage attack characters outside that circle, or vice versa, locking enemies outside of that circle and protectign characters within that circle. That's a lot of things to consider, so likely a more simplistic variation would have to do, where characters within an area would simply have reduced hit chance and reduced or 0 speed, or something of the sort. And of course the GM can always make enemies behave certain ways in consideration of player actions.



Scaling and Enemy Balance

D:OS2 numbers (health, damage, etc.) quickly scale to become way larger than DnD numbers. D:OS2 will never be able to scale to exactly match DnD numbers, but the numbers could be reduced somewhat to get closer to that tabletop vibe.

There's ways to edit vitality and armor scaling, damage amounts, etc. In general, damage numbers would probably get toned down a little as a percentage of health, compared to the current game where one or two attacks can really cut you down. Then again, with more misses and fewer attacks overall, the current damage to vitality ratio might be fairly okay.

Every single enemy will need their stats reworked to match the new attribute system and proper values. This is something to be honed over time, and also subject to GM's discretion somewhat.

All these changes will break enemy AI, so a GM will always have to control enemies, or someone will have to rework the AI, which is no small feat.



Proficiencies

Civil abilities could be replaced with the proficiency skills of DnD. I believe there's more skills from DnD than civil abilities, so a couple would either have to be merged or something, unless we can add brand new civil abilities. Basically you'd use these proficiencies to make rolls when appropriate, increasing your proficiency bonus to the skills when reaching the appropriate level.

I think this could work fine as a hybrid system, where the civil abilities are essentially kept as how they are, except civil points become more common. The gameplay effects (e.g., bartering granting 10% better prices) may be hard to change or remove, but hopefully we get the option to tweak them like we have with all the combat abilities.



Talents/Feats

Assuming we can add new talents, some of feats could be integrated. Several existing talents in the main game will be obsolete with the new system (e.g., elemental affinity, useless with all 1 AP skills), needing replacement anyway.



Concentration

Many DnD spells require concentration, which means the effects of the spell end if you cast another spell, or if you take damage and fail a constitution roll. Frankly, I find this whole concept kind of obnoxious for the most part, but it also seems like an important way to balance casters.

In general it should be possible to automatically do a constitution check and make a fail when you take damage. For example, Bane requires concentration, so taking damage and failing a con save could make those negative statuses disappear. I'd probably prioritize the damage aspect of concentration over the one-spell-at-time aspect, which probably most GMs ignore anyway.



Advantage/Disadvantage

Advantage is rolling twice for a check and using the higher result, disadvantage rolling twice and using the lower. Advantage could be represented faithfully in some cases, as with manual checks. In many cases, advantage could simply translate to a 30-35% increase in the roll, like a 35% increased chance to hit or dodge, rather than performing two rolls behind the scene.



Death and Unconsciousness

D:OS2 death feels really meaningless with resurrection scrolls laying around everywhere. The death saving throw system in DnD 5e would work well in D:OS2, where instead of dying immediately, you fall unconscious, and make d20 saving throws. This would pretty much be manually done. There could maybe a first aid skill that makes a roll to stabilize a target, but that could just as well be done manually.



Conditions

Many DnD conditions are relatively similar to D:OS2 statuses. Some could be tweaked, like crippled becoming restrained, and also reducing dexterity and hit/dodge chance. Plenty of room to hybridize the systems and go either way.



Loot

Naturally loot will have receive large tweaks to fit within the new systems (e.g., granting stat bonuses would have to become extremely rare.) Treasure tables can be redone to make any sort of magic items quite rare, or magic loot could remain fairly common with minor effects. Probably unique items the GM makes would be the best way to handle loot.



Resting

A rested status already exists, though probably this should be split into short and long rests. It could be scripted such that long and short rests automatically restore features like spell slots and ki and whatnot according to the character's level.


I probably forgot a major aspect of DnD, so let me know if I did. Also voice your interest, priorities, suggestions, desire to help, etc.

Joined: Jul 2017
W
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
W
Joined: Jul 2017
Baardvark, As someone who is planning on converting their 5E campaign to DOS2 I appreciate the work you've done and the feedback you've been giving.

To me it's more about the feel of it than actually converting the core mechanics to match 5E exactly. A bit of a disclaimer: Take my input with a grain of salt. As much as I love D&D 5E, I actually don't like class systems and did a classless conversion for my home game. That said I love the feel of 5E, the D&D spells & abilities, The races etc. I do like how you pick a "class" at the beginning but can adjust it.

I think most of the feel of D&D can be added in with races, skills, talents, and items.

Here i what my thoughts have been putting my 5E into DOS2.

Attributes. (also scaling & balance)
Honestly they are close enough for me. I'm not too worried about what they are called and I worry that changing what they do will make it harder to put together encounters as you get higher in levels. I like when casters can benefit from all the mental abilities and melee benefit from all the physical abilities.

Combat.
I actually like the AP system over set actions. It brings be back to pathfinder when I could do full round attacks because I wasn't taking time and energy to move.

Armor and Saves.
My main issue with the system is once armor runs out it's just a back and forth CC game. I like the hybrid resist system but I would also like you to be able to save each round to reduce status effects by 1 level i.e. frozen to chilled. It should probably cost an AP to roll for a chance reduce status effects.

Classes & leveling
As I said before I prefer a classless system and quite like the DOS2 system for that. There are a lot of things missing as far as class features and abilities. I think this could all be added with talents and skills.

Classes.
As stated above I think most missing class features canbe added with talents or skills. You already did some great work with the bard. I think monks can be created by adding some skills and possibly a new class of equipment if that would be easier than tweaking it another way. Monk weapons could be added and their skills would require monk weapons. For unarmed maybe gloves that go in weapon slot and take away the glove slot.

Scaling and balance.
I think with a complete overhaul of the system putting together encounters might be a lot harder. Then again I'm not looking for this to turn into 5E exactly but just get more of the feel in there.

Proficiencies
I think the civil abilities and skills cover just about any bonus the GM would want to give someone on a roll so these work for me.

Talents/Feats
Going to need a lot added to cover class abilities and feats. I think this is where a lot of the flavor of D&D can be added.

Concentration
I don't think there a re many things this would impact.

Advantage/Disadvantage
The game already has things like high ground and flanking. I would honestly leave this as a manual role to be used when the DM sees fit.

Death and Unconsciousness
I would love to have death saving throws. With this I would greatly tweak resurrection scrolls. Make them take more AP, Shorter range, etc.

Conditions
As touched on before I would like to have a way to remove or downgrade CC each round instead of getting auto skipped. I was actually using your Bard mod for inspiration and thinking up a status removing skill for each race like the lizard shedding skin thought I would have them weak to physical after, dwarf would get stone skin limiting movement and AP after, Elves would get absorb lowering their resistances, Humans I don't know yet.

Resting.
This is a tough one for me. There is already a resting mechanic but I don't like how you can just pop down and do it whenever you want. I would be nice if you could implement a timer or something on bed rolls. I'll probably just remove them from my game. I would be nice if I had the option to give me players a short rest automatically. I plan on source points recharging with a long rest. The ability to give them a short rest to recover armor / health and a long rest to restore that plus source would be awesome. I don't what them to just be able to hit the bed roll and be recovered. There might be added feats like luck and so on added with feats. I don't know if a check box to track the uses could be added or something then reset on the long rest also.

Races,
Please someone add the D&D races. Thanks bye.
But really, I sould love to have more player races. My biggest issue right now is the same one I have with D&D so it might not reply here. I hate races having stat bnuses and feel that all it does is limit race / "class" (I'll call it skill set choices) at character creation.

I actually got this game because of GM mode so right now I'm just in a holding pattern for release and the editor and playing to know enough about the different skills and abilities to build my campaign.

I guess for someone that claims to love D&D a lot I sure did throw out or trash half the things about it...



Joined: Jul 2017
W
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
W
Joined: Jul 2017
And environmental effects are a bit out of hand for my taste for a D&D campaign. Sure a fireball should leave a big mess of fire but it seems every fight the ground is getting coated with electricity or fire everywhere.

Joined: Jun 2017
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jun 2017
First of all, It would be an interesting idea to some people to gather and join forces to create such mod. I'd like to help a little bit.
I'm a 3.5ed player, I know, it's old. But 4ed sucked and 5ed isn't out yet in my language (spanish) but it will be in some months.
Atributes:
In Dnd (at least in 3.5) is like that, but the numbers are wrong by 1, attributes modifiers go:
10–11 0
12–13 +1
14–15 +2
16–17 +3
18–19 +4
20–21 +5
22–23 +6
24–25 +7
26–27 +8
28–29 +9
30 +10

Combat
-I agree on honor system, I mean, even for people that play with randoms, most of custom campaigns will have at least a pre-campaign interview or a forum post or something, you will know (a little bit at least) the people you play with. Trust and confidence will make thing easier for modding imho.
-I heard that actions on combat on 5Ed ar different, there are no things such full attack, or full defense or things like that, but instead a standard movement+action for everything.
-Spells...i think for making a magic system like Dnd's we'd have to make it from scratch, attack spells can miss, but the rest can only be resisted through will/reflexes/resistance save throws. Also there are other factors on combat like concentration (for mantaining an active spell) or Feats like expansive magic, elastic spell or things like that that modify their effects, too much work I think
-Cover isn't implemented by defult on the D:OS2 combat system?? That's...odd, what abou archers behind a wall or some crates? they should be harder to hit, I mean...it's basic squad turb-based combat in videogames.[/code]
Armos and Saving Throws
-You can't ditch armor in favor of pure dodge because some damage must land but is to be resisted by the armor. Not the same to dodge something that having a heavy armor that resist a goblin's arrow.
-For that fireball example, That's why i said to make the magic system from scracth, players had to have a mod for saving throws, the spell has to read the affected targets, read their saving throws, make the rolls and apply damage in consequence. Also, don't forget there's a feat for rogues that avoids all damage if the reflexes save roll is succesfull (instead of halving the damage as usual)

Leveling
-If the leveing system is scalable, then the problems are others:
1)Challenge Rating, that's the system for giving XP to players for combat in dnd, it varies depending of the number of characters involved in a fight, their level, and the number of each type of monsters. It's a pain in the ass to calculate, and something that made that calculations automatically and at least give the number to the GM so he can give the XP manually would be very welcome.
2)Leveling stats and traits: Some levels in dnd gives you a boos in an attribute and feats
3)Prestige classes: How could we make those?

Scaling and Enemy balance
Scaling health is a big issue because most modules are written having these things in mind, maybe numbers doesn't match up very well, but they have to be as aproximate as possible, and things like special abilities or monster tweaking are important.
The GM controlling monsters is not a big deal. He'd had to do the same in a table with miniatures anyway.


Civil abilities and proficiencies
Most of these skills are mostly roleplay focused, most are knowledge rolls or knowing how to make a bow or a new pair of horseshoes, or knowing about these subjects to get a job or to detect a flaw in an object at the market.
Couldn't we just create them as new abilities that do nothing in game?
The GM could ask for a dice roll when they want to use them and if they create an object as consequence, the gm has simply to create it and giving it to the players.

Talents-feats-concentration
I already said my concerns about this XD

Death
Yes, constituion rolls until you get -3 health points and then YOU DIE AND ROT HERE YOU HAVE A BLANK CHARACTER SHEET.
Resurrections are expensive and/or (depending on the setting) require a high level cleric, that means some classes need this kind of rework


Loot
Loot is based also con Challenge Rating (in PG value), the GM should add whatever he feels to a fight, but having a loot mod that you can tweak so an orc party had more or less the same would be nice, rations, armor, that kind of thing

Resting
That also has to be able to be controlled by the GM, some spells produce fatigue on the target, also extreme climate environments such an iced mountain or the burning desert.

Things that arent in D:OS2
--------------------------
Spells: Some spells that are very useful to a sorcerer but without them making a magic uses in d:os2 in a dnd campaing is kinda pointless
Roleplay spells: Things like "Wish", "Permanency", or others that doesn't have an immedate combat effect
Spells, diary uses: Magic doesnt work like in an MMO in dnd (i repeat, at least in 3.5) but you can select which spells do you want and how many dary uses you want to place on them. Magic is powerful, but it's dairy use is limited.
Alternative movement: Travelling on a caravan, could it be possible to make a map that repeats itself so the caravan is actually static in place but the players have the illusion of movement?
Also, swimming/diving.

Last edited by Noctro; 05/08/17 08:27 PM.
Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
I kind of figured very accurately replicating DND would probably be a bit overkill for most people, and anyway it would completely break compatibility with most other mods. "I think most of the feel of D&D can be added in with races, skills, talents, and items." I think this is true, plus maybe a few other systematic features like a resist system. The system would also be more modular without overhauling stuff like the AP economy, where maybe you could disable the resist system if you want, but use other features.


Just a suggestion Noctro, using the forum "code" feature with really long lines spreads out the thread a lot and makes things hard to read. Getting rid of the code tags or spacing out your lines would make it more readable.

Spell system is definitely complicated, probably not worth bothering with recreating spell attack rolls and saves on AOE damage attacks, etc. Yup, no cover. Was something they had planned on adding in Kickstarter but seems to have been ditched.

Matching the DND XP system when considering challenge rating and whatnot is tough. I personally think it's best for the GM to just level up players when it seems appropriate. A ratio of 1 level every 2 sessions (maybe faster earlier on, slower later on) sounds about right to me.

Without making the massive changes to AP system and attributes, scaling things down should be a bit easier. Playing based on an existing module will be more about drawing inspiration from it than trying to accurately replicate every monster's stats and whatnot.

Originally Posted by WMC51
Baardvark, As someone who is planning on converting their 5E campaign to DOS2 I appreciate the work you've done and the feedback you've been giving.

To me it's more about the feel of it than actually converting the core mechanics to match 5E exactly. A bit of a disclaimer: Take my input with a grain of salt. As much as I love D&D 5E, I actually don't like class systems and did a classless conversion for my home game. That said I love the feel of 5E, the D&D spells & abilities, The races etc. I do like how you pick a "class" at the beginning but can adjust it.

I think most of the feel of D&D can be added in with races, skills, talents, and items.

Here i what my thoughts have been putting my 5E into DOS2.

Attributes. (also scaling & balance)
Honestly they are close enough for me. I'm not too worried about what they are called and I worry that changing what they do will make it harder to put together encounters as you get higher in levels. I like when casters can benefit from all the mental abilities and melee benefit from all the physical abilities.

Combat.
I actually like the AP system over set actions. It brings be back to pathfinder when I could do full round attacks because I wasn't taking time and energy to move.

Armor and Saves.
My main issue with the system is once armor runs out it's just a back and forth CC game. I like the hybrid resist system but I would also like you to be able to save each round to reduce status effects by 1 level i.e. frozen to chilled. It should probably cost an AP to roll for a chance reduce status effects.

Classes & leveling
As I said before I prefer a classless system and quite like the DOS2 system for that. There are a lot of things missing as far as class features and abilities. I think this could all be added with talents and skills.

Classes.
As stated above I think most missing class features canbe added with talents or skills. You already did some great work with the bard. I think monks can be created by adding some skills and possibly a new class of equipment if that would be easier than tweaking it another way. Monk weapons could be added and their skills would require monk weapons. For unarmed maybe gloves that go in weapon slot and take away the glove slot.

Scaling and balance.
I think with a complete overhaul of the system putting together encounters might be a lot harder. Then again I'm not looking for this to turn into 5E exactly but just get more of the feel in there.

Proficiencies
I think the civil abilities and skills cover just about any bonus the GM would want to give someone on a roll so these work for me.

Talents/Feats
Going to need a lot added to cover class abilities and feats. I think this is where a lot of the flavor of D&D can be added.

Concentration
I don't think there are many things this would impact.

Advantage/Disadvantage
The game already has things like high ground and flanking. I would honestly leave this as a manual role to be used when the DM sees fit.

Death and Unconsciousness
I would love to have death saving throws. With this I would greatly tweak resurrection scrolls. Make them take more AP, Shorter range, etc.

Conditions
As touched on before I would like to have a way to remove or downgrade CC each round instead of getting auto skipped. I was actually using your Bard mod for inspiration and thinking up a status removing skill for each race like the lizard shedding skin thought I would have them weak to physical after, dwarf would get stone skin limiting movement and AP after, Elves would get absorb lowering their resistances, Humans I don't know yet.

Resting.
This is a tough one for me. There is already a resting mechanic but I don't like how you can just pop down and do it whenever you want. I would be nice if you could implement a timer or something on bed rolls. I'll probably just remove them from my game. I would be nice if I had the option to give me players a short rest automatically. I plan on source points recharging with a long rest. The ability to give them a short rest to recover armor / health and a long rest to restore that plus source would be awesome. I don't what them to just be able to hit the bed roll and be recovered. There might be added feats like luck and so on added with feats. I don't know if a check box to track the uses could be added or something then reset on the long rest also.

Races,
Please someone add the D&D races. Thanks bye.
But really, I sould love to have more player races. My biggest issue right now is the same one I have with D&D so it might not reply here. I hate races having stat bnuses and feel that all it does is limit race / "class" (I'll call it skill set choices) at character creation.

I actually got this game because of GM mode so right now I'm just in a holding pattern for release and the editor and playing to know enough about the different skills and abilities to build my campaign.

I guess for someone that claims to love D&D a lot I sure did throw out or trash half the things about it...


A skill to make a save each turn for statuses, or automatically making saving throws against certain statuses each turn could be interesting. Automatic saves for fear, restrained statuses, knockdown, stun, etc. make the most sense. Maybe some other statuses, like poison.

Death saving throws or another to rework death from this meaningless thing cured by a cheap scroll, is definitely a priority for me.

I agree the excessive environmental effects aren't super DNDish, but not sure how one would dramatically reduce their presence. Perhaps if electrified water/blood un-electrified after 1 turn, poison and oil depleted after a bit, etc. that'd be a big help.




Joined: Jun 2017
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jun 2017
Fixed my previous post, hope you can read it now. My bad.
About the environmental shit, I totally agree, the GM should have something to determine the duration in seconds(out of combat) or turns(combat mode)

Joined: Apr 2016
S
stranger
Offline
stranger
S
Joined: Apr 2016
Originally Posted by Baardvark
A skill to make a save each turn for statuses, or automatically making saving throws against certain statuses each turn could be interesting. Automatic saves for fear, restrained statuses, knockdown, stun, etc. make the most sense. Maybe some other statuses, like poison.

The problem with saving throw for statuses can be solved by having them for less turn if your stat is high enough.
I have the impression that D&D try to put saving throw during your turn just to avoid boredom ( D&D fight tend to be long ). In this game all the fights will be faster compared to a Tabletop so if your character have a good Constitution/Vitality he'll be poisoned for less turn. I think it's not going to be a big loss.

Originally Posted by Baardvark
Death saving throws or another to rework death from this meaningless thing cured by a cheap scroll, is definitely a priority for me.

Imo death is one of the main reason why D&D ( and any other tabletop rpg ) is cool. Your character can die, so you need to reroll a new one. So yes this is super important. I think it will be easy enough to remove totally the cheap resurrection scroll and increase the level needed to get a resurrection spell. Am I wrong?


Originally Posted by Baardvark
I agree the excessive environmental effects aren't super DNDish, but not sure how one would dramatically reduce their presence. Perhaps if electrified water/blood un-electrified after 1 turn, poison and oil depleted after a bit, etc. that'd be a big help.

As Noctro also wrote, there should be a way to control the timing for those effects. But I don't think they aren't DNDish. I mean... well... fire+water=nomore water laugh


Joined: Jun 2017
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jun 2017
Quote
As Noctro also wrote, there should be a way to control the timing for those effects. But I don't think they aren't DNDish. I mean... well... fire+water=nomore water

Poison and Fire are quite common in Dnd, I had players quite used to throw flasks of burning oil.
My problem with the effects is, f.ex: electricity, it should electrify the liquid the moment it touches it and then disappear, not make the liquid stay electrified, also, apart from saying how much time it has to stay there should be a tick for making some effect permanent (Ex. a thick brown-greenish fog in a tomb that MAYBE is poisonous, or maybe does nothing but the players will get paranoid) which leaves to the last point: making new paintable effects of that kind, I know that making brand new ones won't be that easy but...Why we can't change the color/properties of the ones we got by default?

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
SO working on or considering the following DnDish and otherwise fun skills. Lots of things to balance out:

Leap: jump a short distance, a large chance to get staggered if you jump a large vertical distance. Stagger chance reduced by dexterity.

Shove: throw an enemy a short distance, staggering them if thrown a large vertical distance

Tackle: Similar to shove, except you also end up where you throw your target.

Displacement: Teleport a target a short distance, and you appear where they originally were.

Dive Bomb: Leap to an area, dealing damage and staggering enemies within a range that is determined by how high you leaped from.

Concentrated Defense: 3 AP, boost your dodge and resistances moderately, if you have nothing better to do.

Magic Missile: 3 Missile attack that does physical damage

Feather Fall: Group buff, no staggering from leaping or being shoved.

Quivering Palm: Apply 3 turn status which deals 25% + Your Dexerity to the character's vitality when the status is removed.

Dispel Magic: Dispel all magical buffs and debuffs on a target.

Banishment: Remove enemy from game world temporarily (e.g., how the Maze skill works in Epic Encounters)


It looks like status duration can be affected in many ways. I believe these numbers are in seconds, and 6 seconds = 1 turn. So 18 = 3 turns. (These are the default numbers). -1 is forever.

key "SurfaceDurationFromHitFloorReaction","18" // Believe this is for stuff like electrifying water
key "SurfaceDurationFireIgniteOverride","12" // 2 turns of fire from igniting oil and poison
key "SurfaceDurationFromCharacterBleeding","-1" // Bleeding lasts forever, probably will change this
key "SurfaceDurationBlessedCursed","-1" // Cursed and Blessed surfaces last forever
key "SurfaceDurationAfterDecay","-1" // After a surface like electrified water decays, the water lasts forever
key "SmokeDurationAfterDecay","6" // smoke lasts 1 turn after fire is put out.

Thanks for fixing your post Noctro, much more readable. Not sure about changing existing surfaces or making new ones, but I really hope that's possible so I can make stuff like caltrops, marbles, custom surfaces for spell behavior, etc.

Last edited by Baardvark; 07/08/17 06:42 PM.
Joined: Jul 2017
W
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
W
Joined: Jul 2017
Leap.
Could strength and weight change the range?

Shove and throw
Would there be a chance for the enemy to resist or would it be like teleport?

Dive bomb
Kinda a modification to Phoenix dine. Could strength play a factorin how far you can jump? Will it damage enemies? Is so could weight or heavy armor increase damage?

Concentrated Defense
I think fora small boost it would be one AP. It would give you something to do with that extra you sometimes have. 3ap seesa some pretty beefy skills so that mighr nees to be a significant boost or auto dodge the next attack against you.

MM
Kinda lick searing daggers but without a miss chance?

FF
Sounds good

Quivering
Resist chance could get tricky. It is just based on you hitting with the initial attack but for no damage. Do they get a resist chance each round. Does it start at lower % and increase each round till you choose to trigger it. Okay the last one might be tough.

Banish
Would need a resist chance.

Dispel magic
Sounds fair.

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Leap: Eh, can't really scale range with just a stat I don't think. There could be 2 or 3 different versions of the skill, with better leaps requiring at least 20 strength or something like that.

Shove: Don't know if it's possible to make saves against the skill itself. I would quite like that, but would need a way to interrupt the skill very quickly. May be possible, but if not, a "StopSkillCast" kind of command would help a lot, and even enable sort of things like requiring rolls for successful casts of various spells.

Dive Bomb could potentially factor in weight, armor and strength for damage. Weight is tough because I think it would measure weight of all items carried as well, so you'd just have to be near your max encumbrance to max its damage, which is kind of silly. Again, distance is hard to tweak.

Concentrated Defense: supposed to be more of a skill that everyone will have that basically is a sort of last resort or no other good options kind of skill. So I don't it to be particularly great, but just a sort of option you can always have.

MM: Yup. Don't think Searing Daggers can miss as is? Could be higher versions of this skill that shoot more projectiles too.

Quivering: Resist could either be on the initial application, or a resistance that factors in constitution and stuff to reduce the damage it does when the damage occurs. Or something like each point in constitution would decrease damage taken by 1%. So using it on an enemy with a ton of health wouldn't be super effective (e.g., not a boss-killer kind of skill). Maybe the numbers would be 30% max health + 1% per dex - 1% of con of target.

The bigger idea of this skill is it's main damage is delayed, so potentially you could end up losing the fight before the damage actually hits.

Banish: Yeah, resist chance probably. This skill isn't going to have some really nice flavor. Basically, it will send the target to some kind of nearly infinitely repetitive reality (E.g., a huge labyrinth, or the library of babel (look up story by Borges), or a land of numbers where people are constantly calculating strange equations, etc.) For each second the character is banished this way in the real world, the target spends 1-10 days in this weird reality.

Basically it's a really evil spell. :P Could also have an effect like the character is dazed when they come back, since they were gone so long and forgot what was happening in the battle (and may not even realize they would come back).

Joined: Jun 2017
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jun 2017
Since banish is a spell...should we make a list of Spells and their descriptions to figure out how to make them in game, or at least, how to fake them as accurate as possible?
I think it would be helpful to have a common document of some sort.

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
I'm just referencing the spells off the Roll20 site (e.g., List of Druid Spells by Level)

I'm mostly working on spells that I'm almost positive won't be added by Larian. But I'd say here's the list of spells that are mechanically fairly easy, interesting, and don't already have an obvious corollary. Other people could add spells that work largely as existing ones, but these are the ones I like. Listing from least to most powerful, the latter of which would probably be available at level 18+ in a GM campaign and would probably have major requirements (source points, special inventory items, etc.)

Faerie Fire: Mass Dodge Malus

Healing Word: 0 AP small heal with long CD maybe

Jump: grant a character a farther distance leap skill

Animal Friendship/Dominate Beast: a charm that can only target animals

Heat Metal: deal damage based on armor of character

Pass Without Trace: Mass +Sneaking buff

Conjure Animals: might be able to make a random summon spell. Same with conjuring elementals.

Glyph of Warding: Explosive, magic based trap, should be possible

Freedom of Movement: Movement speed buff, immunity to slow, cripple, stagger, any other movement debuffs

Contagion: An earth-based disease spell

Antilife Shield: Each turn blast out a force that pushes characters away?

Teleportation Circle: A massive teleport skill would be fun, though very difficult to script in a meaningful way probably. Something like you can teleport you and allies within 8m up to 15m away, retaining the same formation. Not sure if the AI grid will automatically shunt characters into walkable spaces or what, but probably not.

Dream: This a fun concept. Would tweak it such that it could be a combat ability that would make you and a target asleep, and when that target wakes up, they take moderate damage. Maybe if cast on an ally, you'd both fall asleep and they would heal when waking up.

Mislead: Teleport a distance, go invisible and summon something that either looks like you (if possible), or some other decoy kind of summon. A nice variant for a summoner skill could be a short range teleport where you plop down a totem where you just were.

Eyebite: Such a silly spell name lol. But like the concept of a spell that when you and an enemy look directly at each other, they receive a random negative debuff.

Sunbeam: Line of fire-damage that blinds

Feeblemind: Permanently or otherwise stupefy a target, reducing intelligence and charisma by a lot and muting them.

Foresight: Large Hit Chance, Dodge, and stat boost.


That's just druid and bard spells, so still plenty more that could be used for inspiration. I also quite like a number of Epic Encounters spells, might ask Sandpie if I can implement them or variations of them.



Last edited by Baardvark; 08/08/17 02:47 AM.
Joined: Jul 2017
W
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
W
Joined: Jul 2017
All looks pretty good. Another great bard one would be Bigby’s Hand as a summon. I think it would be fun. It jas like 4 abilities.i guess it would really be more.of a reskin or the existing summon.

Another fun druid one would be grasping vines since irs another enemy movement ability.

Teleport circle.could have a small range to work well with your come together bard spell.

I would prefer healing word be 1ap (I picture bonus actions.as.1so skills) with no cool down bit a very small heal.

I like the idea of adding some ofnthose mote utility spells like faeiry fire and pass without a trace. Don't forget and dust of tracelessness magic item to go along with it.

Heat metal would he epically neat if you could.somehow gibe it a chance to make them drop (unequal) their metal weapon. A huge pain in guessing.

Going back to your shove and throw skills what about trip and grapple. Well i know there are other abilities.tjat make.you.prone but I don't recall just a trip ability.

Joined: Jun 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2014
I like where this thread is going. Count me in.

this is mostly academic, however, if we are bound to a lvl20 cap.

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
I like where this thread is going. Count me in.

this is mostly academic, however, if we are bound to a lvl20 cap.


There wasn't a hard cap in the first game and my guess is the main campaign this game will take us to at least level 25, with no forced limit past that.

Originally Posted by WMC51
All looks pretty good. Another great bard one would be Bigby’s Hand as a summon. I think it would be fun. It jas like 4 abilities.i guess it would really be more.of a reskin or the existing summon.

Another fun druid one would be grasping vines since irs another enemy movement ability.

Teleport circle.could have a small range to work well with your come together bard spell.

I would prefer healing word be 1ap (I picture bonus actions.as.1so skills) with no cool down bit a very small heal.

I like the idea of adding some ofnthose mote utility spells like faeiry fire and pass without a trace. Don't forget and dust of tracelessness magic item to go along with it.

Heat metal would he epically neat if you could.somehow gibe it a chance to make them drop (unequal) their metal weapon. A huge pain in guessing.

Going back to your shove and throw skills what about trip and grapple. Well i know there are other abilities.tjat make.you.prone but I don't recall just a trip ability.


Bigby's Hand definitely would be an awesome summon, though that would require a custom model an animations to really ring true. Maybe there's an alternate kind of summon that would thematically work as well.

A vine-skill would require a custom surface, but maybe we'll see something like that.

Various items that can cast spells (basically scrolls, but with more flavor) would be nice.

Heat Metal could potentially check for certain weapon types like swords, axes, daggers, which are almost certainly metal. May be able to check if an item has the metal quality somehow, and then apply the disarmed status if so.

Trip and Grapple would be good ones too. Trip would probably just be a dexterity contest to knockdown, where grapple would be a strength contest to apply a -100% movement and -1 or -2 AP debuff to both you and the grapplee, with more of a malus to the target. Should be possible to go about checking the distance and stuff to break the status if you move away.

Last edited by Baardvark; 09/08/17 07:28 PM.
Joined: Jun 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2014
How would you believe, however, the re-integration of Saving Throws could work? What about the armor system, which I deeply dislike?

Joined: Aug 2014
M
member
Offline
member
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Very interesting project you got going here.

I'm really intrigued by how you want to implement DnD classes and spell systems.

Last time I read a DnD book was in the early 2000's, so forgive me if my grasp on the ruleset is a bit archaic.

How do you plan to implement classes that rely on selecting spells for memorisation, wizards and clerics, and sorcerers who can freely access an albeit finite number spells that their int. and level allows?

The D:OS 2 already have a skill memory system implemented maybe that could be tweaked to cater to the 'spell selection on rest' system DnD uses for some classes.

If the source point system for D:OS 2 can be modding into several categories, basically meaning that you have several types of source points. Then you could make different pools of them, source points lvl. 0, source points lvl. 1, source points lvl. 3 and so on.

This could help implement the sorcerers spell system. Basically every time a sorcerer rest, upon completion, he will be given several pools of source points, according to his level and int. bonus. So he would be able to spend source points lvl. 0 for level 0 spells and source points lvl. 1 for level 1 spells and so forth.
This will need to be scripted in, along with a script that removes any source points available at the start of resting.

I'm really just a novice at modding/coding, so I'm kinda not able to tell if this is feasible and/or to what extend, just blabbing ideas here.

Another question, that I really does not hope will be an issue, is about copyright infringement. It would be really sad and frustrating to spent countless man hours just to be sent a cease and desist letter, from Wizards of the Coast (they own DnD now, right?).

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
How would you believe, however, the re-integration of Saving Throws could work? What about the armor system, which I deeply dislike?


I've already been working on a saving throw system that takes into account the % of your remaining armor, your health, your constitution, and other factors. I talk about it in this reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DivinityOriginalSin2/comments/6p2pdn/whats_your_ideal_status_resist_system/

Originally Posted by MAHak

How do you plan to implement classes that rely on selecting spells for memorisation, wizards and clerics, and sorcerers who can freely access an albeit finite number spells that their int. and level allows?

The D:OS 2 already have a skill memory system implemented maybe that could be tweaked to cater to the 'spell selection on rest' system DnD uses for some classes.

If the source point system for D:OS 2 can be modding into several categories, basically meaning that you have several types of source points. Then you could make different pools of them, source points lvl. 0, source points lvl. 1, source points lvl. 3 and so on.

This could help implement the sorcerers spell system. Basically every time a sorcerer rest, upon completion, he will be given several pools of source points, according to his level and int. bonus. So he would be able to spend source points lvl. 0 for level 0 spells and source points lvl. 1 for level 1 spells and so forth.
This will need to be scripted in, along with a script that removes any source points available at the start of resting.

I'm really just a novice at modding/coding, so I'm kinda not able to tell if this is feasible and/or to what extend, just blabbing ideas here.

Another question, that I really does not hope will be an issue, is about copyright infringement. It would be really sad and frustrating to spent countless man hours just to be sent a cease and desist letter, from Wizards of the Coast (they own DnD now, right?).


At this point I don't think I'm going to go all out and integrate every class, but add a few global systems and a number of skills with the DND flavor. You have a good point about copyright infringement, which is part of the reason I think I'll avoid mapping every class exactly to the DND version. So I don't think I'm going to worry about trying to distinguish between memorized spells vs casting any set of spells like sorcerers.

I'm also going to probably rename every spell and generally try to make my versions of spells unique from DND versions to avoid copyright infringement.

I don't think source points could be changed into different versions. I was thinking spell slots could be represented with up to 9 different inventory items representing slots that would be required to cast the spells. There could also be variables behind the scene to control spell slots, but I'm not sure how I'd tell players how many slots they had remaining of each level.

So ultimately, I'll probably vastly simplify the system, and just use source points for everything as a sort of global mana/ki/etc., kind of system. More powerful spells would simply take more source points, and I don't think I'd split spells into 9 levels either. I should be able to increase maximum source point capacity. I'll have to just set the maximum to 20 or 25, and have scripts give source points on resting according to the character level. Max source point cost for a skill will probably be 4 or 5.

Once per rest kind of skills could be triggered with items that characters gain on resting.

Joined: Jul 2017
W
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
W
Joined: Jul 2017
3.5 and 5e have an open license. If tot read it and follow those rules you should be play. Basically forgotten realms and lore is off limits. Spell and skill names etc should be open game I believe. You just hand to read it yourself and put required legal jargon with anything you publish.

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by WMC51
3.5 and 5e have an open license. If tot read it and follow those rules you should be play. Basically forgotten realms and lore is off limits. Spell and skill names etc should be open game I believe. You just hand to read it yourself and put required legal jargon with anything you publish.


Does look like it's OGL, though I find it a bit confusing with all the legalese what aspects are actually protected. For example, I'm not entirely sure if I could make a spell called Bigby's Hand, since the proper name "Bigby" might be protected. I think I'll just play it safe and rename and reflavorize everything. I'm not particularly invested in DND 5E anyway. More just drawing inspiration from it at this point.

Last edited by Baardvark; 10/08/17 04:50 AM.
Joined: Jun 2017
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jun 2017
For mages/clerics/sorcerers you had the solution there, Baarvark. Best option would be a new menu window to select dairy spells and uses, and then when they use a bed/matress/activate rest all objectspells are deleted and the proper ones are adde to the player's quickbar, you can't trade nor throw away the objectspells. Number of objectspells/uses is based on player's intelligence (mage), charisma (sorcerer/paladin/bard) or wisdom (cleric/druid). Also magic items like some rings/amulets can add spells per levels.

Doing that we'd have a proper magic dnd system in divinity.
Problem would be, of course, the list of spells and their effects. That's something we should look into spell-by-spell

Joined: Jun 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2014
Originally Posted by Baardvark
Originally Posted by WMC51
3.5 and 5e have an open license. If tot read it and follow those rules you should be play. Basically forgotten realms and lore is off limits. Spell and skill names etc should be open game I believe. You just hand to read it yourself and put required legal jargon with anything you publish.


Does look like it's OGL, though I find it a bit confusing with all the legalese what aspects are actually protected. For example, I'm not entirely sure if I could make a spell called Bigby's Hand, since the proper name "Bigby" might be protected. I think I'll just play it safe and rename and reflavorize everything. I'm not particularly invested in DND 5E anyway. More just drawing inspiration from it at this point.


That is the correct approach indeed.

Joined: Jun 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2014
I cannot stress how much I support this idea. An extra layer of complexity and greater rewards for specialisation are likely they ways to go.

Joined: Jan 2015
member
Offline
member
Joined: Jan 2015
Good to know I'm not the only one who thought of something like that. And while I'm a lot more into the 3.5e, it's still an interesting project. This was pretty much my first thought when dos2 was announced especially with the, imho, subpar "armor"-system. Really, as much as I like the first game the basic mechanics and their missing depth hampered the game a lot for me. So yeah, I like the idea and the ambitions toward that goal.
Though I'd go for 3.5e or TDE/DSA (the dark eye/das schwarze Auge).

But as I had a look at the first game the problem would be to give it a satisfying outcome/realisation...
So far I did not look at the files of DOS2 myself, so I cannot say if it is possible to define/change more things like custom kinds of damage for example. I really hope so, especially as modding was a stretchgoal, but tbh... I had quite some letdowns with DOS2 so far... so I'm not all too hopeful...

Same goes for things like the classes, as that would mean changing the UI (in a major way!), and that alone was a No-Go in DOS1, not counting the small UI changes, like fonts etc, that were.
Man I really hope they listened at least to the stuff people said regarding the modding... especially the part about less hardcoding.

Just filling up all the stuff that's not possible to do with existing mechanics, for example defining classes as the already existing schools, definately would not do the trick for me.

Last edited by Seelenernter; 13/09/17 09:11 AM.

Think for yourself! Or others will do it...
Joined: Sep 2017
Location: UK
T
stranger
Offline
stranger
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Location: UK
i must admit,after watching Lars and the guys doing the D&D demo at WOTC studios. i thought about how much can be done with this game as far as D&D/Pathfinder are concerned...if either of the pathfinder adventure paths..Mummys mask or crimsone throne.could be loosely converted to this game..what an amazing thing that would be!.plus imagine the status and popularity this game would get!!

Last edited by tootz; 14/09/17 05:27 PM.
Joined: Sep 2016
M
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
M
Joined: Sep 2016
Any ideas on how difficult it will be to rename combat and civil abilities? I hope we are able to add and subtract entries, as well--my campaign doesn't really need Polymorph.


Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by Melgrimm
Any ideas on how difficult it will be to rename combat and civil abilities? I hope we are able to add and subtract entries, as well--my campaign doesn't really need Polymorph.



Should be very easy to rename combat/civil abilities. Not positive if that information is only found in the main localization file like in the first game, or if it can be changed through the editor. Will look into it when I finish downloading.

Joined: Sep 2017
B
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
B
Joined: Sep 2017
I'm deffinately interested in helping in any way because it want this done. I want it to be as close to 5e as possible. Right now I'm working on making waterdeep for the Yaning Portal however the learning curve is real.

Joined: Sep 2017
D
stranger
Offline
stranger
D
Joined: Sep 2017
Now that we know some of the limitations in this engine, you guys still think this is a viable project?

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Yes, I still think 90% of the stuff in the OP is possible. It's a lot of work, and not something I'm working on, though.

Joined: May 2017
Location: California
member
Offline
member
Joined: May 2017
Location: California
I think that the most important thing about making a D&D mod for DOS 2 would be to capture the feel of D&D, not try to mimic every mechanic and instead use some of the existing DOS 2 mechanics.

I wouldn't try to change the ap system for instance, but I would try to implement an actual saving throw system that doesn't have anything to do with armor values, tweak the DOS skills to resemble similar ones in D&D, and tone down the super inflated numbers that occur as the characters level up. I'd probably dump physical and magical armor if possible and use resistances instead, such as physical resistances added to armor and block % on shields, along with applicable elemental resistances.

I don't think there's any point in trying to lock characters into specific classes ala D&D and just leave progression up to the individual players and GMs. They can police themselves, no need to waste time trying to figure out how to create specific classes and the like. Skills are much more important, but they don't have to be perfect replicas of the ones in D&D either. And, as much as I dislike cool downs, I don't think it's worth the effort to try and replicate D&D's rest mechanic.

Also, passive skills would be nice if possible (Things like the champions increased crit chance).

So, basically I like your ideas Baardvark. I would just tone down the scale of the project so it's somewhat more maneagable. Probably wouldn't be a terrible idea, should you or anyone else decide to tackle this, to split it up into several self contained mods instead of one big monster sized mod.


Last edited by Ghatt; 22/09/17 02:21 AM.
Joined: Jul 2017
W
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
W
Joined: Jul 2017
I just read a post that you can't reroll new characters after a death. This screws everythign up for a long term campaign for me. Hard to make death meaningful.

Joined: May 2017
Location: California
member
Offline
member
Joined: May 2017
Location: California
Originally Posted by WMC51
I just read a post that you can't reroll new characters after a death. This screws everythign up for a long term campaign for me. Hard to make death meaningful.


That would indeed be a terrible design choice if true. Haven't actually played gm mode with other players yet, but that would be dissapointing. Also brings up the issue of not being able to add new players part way through a campaign without needing to recreate every other remaining character in a new campaign session file. If true, I suppose you'd just have to use this workaround should a permadeath occur in a campaign.

Joined: Mar 2016
Location: Belgium
T
addict
Offline
addict
T
Joined: Mar 2016
Location: Belgium
There is no problem with making a new player character at any point during the game. While plain character creation is probably not accessible, you could use the same API that is used for the respec mirror to change the character. The things it can't change (gender, race, skills) could be solved by first offering a dialog in which the player picks what gender and race and standard preset the character should have (like the one offered when you recruit a companion in the main game).

Joined: Jan 2015
member
Offline
member
Joined: Jan 2015
After finally having enough time to finish it, I can just say... rarely had a game I was so torn between amazed and disgusted. Absolutely screams for a mechanic and balance redesign.

So far I have ideas of how to do the classes, talents and skills, but serious doubts arise regarding the GUI and basic mechanics, especially reflecting them in the combat log.

Baardvark, does your statement mean, you're out in general, or just missing the time right now?


Think for yourself! Or others will do it...
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Larian_KVN 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5