Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Rouge+Elf is SO OVERPOWERED

I kind of agree. There is one major difference from the alpha, the possibility of seeing the dead.

If you want to play rogue, play rogue. If not, play something else. No-one is forcing you to play rogue, even if it may be the best class. Just because a class is better it doesn't mean to play it. Easy logic.

However, I understand the reason behind the complaint. Perhaps you play MP and it sucks to see a teammate do more damage, but why even care. Classes have different utilities.

I'm so tired of seing post like this. The argument "you don't have to play it" is retarded. It's a early access game, and people use the forum to tell Larian when they think something is unbalanced. It's not about if you play it or not, it's about telling the dev they need to balance stuff.

Back on the topic, rogue isn't that op, it's more likely the combo with elf + time warp (custom character) + rogue that is op.

The rogue is still OP on his own because of certain skill (some of them I mentioned in an earlier post page 1) but I think most things that make him OP are bugs or unintended behaviours.

Now I usually have no problem saying you can just ignore certain exploits that are specific.
In the case of the Rogue, you can't just Ignore and entire specialization line, it need to be looked at, whether this is the skills of the scoundrel or the synergy with other skill, there are some combinations that are too obvious and too strong.

To be fair, it's not that simple. The game is supposed to be played on multiplayer. If I play with friends, and we do this with our own playstyle (what we intend to do), if one of us were to play an overpowered combo, it would ruin the game for pretty much all of us. And why should this person not play the character he wants where all the other player can?

The game is a multiplayer one, and I haven't even mentioned the competitive aspect. In this regard, it HAS to be the most balanced possible...

I'm happy to see a majority of people are agreeing that something need to be done about the OP rogue skills/synergy/bugs whatever you want to call it. Moreover saying "just don't play it then" has some of the worst logic behind it, the game needs balance. Multiplayer would just be put every point into WIT first rogue to move wins. I do understand its alpha but haven't seen any larian posting commenting on changes or fixes.
Oh and please make summoning stronger level 8 incarnate buffed still hits like a lvl 1 with no gear, the wood totems hits for double the amount!

Nothing needs to be done. The rogue is best at single-target damage, that what it's designed for.
It is not nearly as good as the warrior or the mage when it comes to damaging multiple targets.

I agree with RandomTobias - Nothing needs changed significantly. Rogue is the best at single-target damage. IT's not particularly good at stunning or multi-target damage.

I strongly disagree for the reasons given in my post in page 1 concerning specific skills.

I have no problem for the rogue having higher single target damage (they need to have some utility over the other Damage Dealers after all) but the difference is so huge that it feels like you are playing a different difficulty level with and without a rogue.

I mean, I won't repeat myself and I am very lenient about the balancing of the game but when a DPS specialization overshadows any over, there is definitely something you want to change.

If a big majority of the players focuses on mainly one spec or set of skills, it also means a lot of your content from other spec and many cool skills will be missed.

Now I don't have the telemetry data of Larian but I am fairly sure they will adjust the game when needed, and from what we see in the forum this seems most player feel the same about the rogue.

Anybody who says Rogue isn't to powerful is clearly playing one and likes easy mode, or plans to on release. I don't mind rogues being best at single target, I AGREE they should but doing 4X the damage of a warrior or mage with skills costing much lower AP takes away from the other classes. Pointed out above how the rogue back stab teleport costs 1 AP when its 3 AP cost for any other class AND on a 2 turn CD needs to be tweaked. Damage is to high and AP cost is to low, the more i read about this its pretty clear larian will make the necessary tweaks to bring rogues into line with other classes. Seems like a vast majority of people can see they are to strong.

As already said, They don't do nearly as much damage as the other classes when fighting multiple enemies.
If your rogue completely overshadowed the other characters, it means your builds were not properly optimized or that you didn't use positioning and skills effectively.

I think you're missing the point of the difference in classes, Dtrooper. Mages and warriors are AoE, as someone already mentioned, meaning they can target more people for less damage easier. That and they have MORE HEALTH AND ARMOR. Rogues (not rouges), on the other hand, are incredibly easy to kill because of their low health and armor and have to be strategically positioned away from the battle for this very reason. To balance out how easy to kill they are, they have to be able to do a ton of damage -- especially cause most of their skills are single target damage and not AoE damage.

If Larian was to take your suggestion, you'd end up with a rogue that did equal damage (or less) than the warriors and mages of the game, yet still have less health and armor, and still not have AoE skills. In other words, why would anyone pick the rogue class?

Please trust that Larian know what they are doing. They have developed and balanced games for over a decade or more and you are some dude online who thinks he knows everything. I trust the professional game developers. I really hope they don't take your suggestion and then actually mess up the balance of the game in so doing.

When the game is released, go into the editor and make a mod "balancing" it the way you think it should be and then play it, realize how terrible of a class the rogue then becomes, and wake up.

I think this is generally good advice anyway. An example is that I think the long arms in the Fallouts are way underpowered: I don't campaign for it to be changed but I'll make my own changes and bump up their damage a lot. Might not work for other people but it works well for my style of gameplay. Obviously a double-edged sword since I play on normal difficulty, I'll quickly get pwned if I don't watch myself but for me it makes it more fun.

As D:OS II stands I don't feel overly inclined to interfere with it, but if something feels off to me I'll just go and change it, assuming the editor is reasonably workable at least.

Id argue a big problem with how rogues and other physical damage classes are right now is due to how combo oriented combat has become. It has become more efficient to burst people down one by one than to take on everyone at once. This ties into a prevalent abuseable strategy that involves using skin graft +adrenaline, refunding your ap with kills using the Executioner talent, and escaping with chameleon cloak. Basically, rogues are the best at abusing this strategy and with how cheap some of their skills are (1 ap for 2 attacks with throwing knives), its no wonder theyre op. Meanwhile, mages have no weapon scaling on skills, no crit multiplier due to relying on spells, and long cooldowns. Even with aoe, being able to kill someone in one turn is more useful than spreading out your damage.

If I look at some reports, mages are able to solo the game without using a certain gimme-ap build. But they are soo weak, ok. Rogues may be able to solo but only if you use a special combination of ubarness and boredom combi of certain schools.

If you take the big damage away from rogues, what is the reason to have one? Wether it is too high because of a buggy Throwing Knife, I don't know. If so, Larian should adjust. They could also make Adrenaline and Skin Graft for example incompatible, that would be my greatest wish.

BTW to take focus fire effectiveness on single targets as an argument to nerf builds and parties needing high single target damage to work is ... not very convincing. Or, more directly said, it makes me outright angry.

The problem is the "gimme-ap" build. Its a very specific combination of abilities and talents that can be abused to no end because ap is such a limited resource now. And its best on the rogue thanks to their high damage jump and their massive single-target damage. Flesh sacrifice, Adrenaline, Skin Graft, Executioner has allowed me to consistently kill at least 2 and usually 3 enemies on the first turn my rogue is in range. Which is usually the first turn of the fight.

However, rogues that stick to just the rogue skill set and don't incorporate polymorph are generally not overpowered, I think. Non Elven rogues are similarly less ridiculous, though Elves are the only race with bonus stats that rogues can fully use (bonus crit chance on humans is useless if crit is guaranteed on backstabs).

I think the ultimate problem lies with the changes to ap availability. If you only get 4 ap a then allowing players to mess with that will almost always be abusable. Playing with tiny single digit numbers makes balance too hard, and I don't see the benefit unless you have to use your fingers to keep track of numbers.

As far as i know, they're nerfing some key abilities of the poly-rogue op build. Adrenaline, skin graft, maybe even executioner.
I think that when the game will be released, this thing will be balanced. Homewer i hope that will be still viable, it was really fun mixing polymorph mechanic with scoundrel to create a super lethal assassin, so i would like a balanced/moderate nerf.

I hope it will be moderate. My rogue never had Polymorph skills. Also not my two-handed warrior. And they never felt op. For me as single player who likes a story, diversion of builds and mildly demanding fights it's annoying when min-maxing game-beaters and multi-players use the vocal might of crying to change things to their intention only.

In the stream they confirmed they fixed many bug or balanced several things so Executionner only procs once a turn, Dagger Throw only trigger its damage twice (so expect the damage to be divided by 2 compared to the alpha build, that was a bug not a design choice as many of us suspected).

There will be other changes for the better I am sure.

Damn is this guy butt hurt or what? Haha I dont remember claiming to "know everything" but what i DO know is rogues are over-powered and from the looks of the many threads and discussions on this topic so does the vast majority. You're just another one of these idiots who's logic is if you don't like it don't play it (I'm assuming from your mod it to be balanced after release comment)