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This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) #609339
07/09/17 05:20 PM
07/09/17 05:20 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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Neonivek  Offline OP

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This game seems to have a particularly dislike for Custom Origins so far.

They have almost no original content, even their tags are extrapolations of the Pre-set Origin personalities (unless this has been fixed up).

Other characters get special quests, abilities, options but the custom origins don't. Custom origins don't get special events or unique features.

Custom Undead do not start the game off with access to their essential gear... The Origin Undead character does (And might even NEED to join the party in order for you to access it).

Time Warp, the best origin skill and the most flexible, given to Custom Origins in Early Access and given to the Origin Undead character (and in fact likely always intended to). Instead they get a supportive over time AoE armor heal.

Want extra exp at the start of the game without murdering random people? Not as a custom origin!

---

I could be wrong, and I hope I am... (In fact I THINK Fane gives you the recipe if you just talk to him)

But Custom Origins are this game's 7th playable character. They really should have been treated that way.

---

Don't take this topic too seriously.

I am just frustrated because for me Custom Origins are where my attention is at and where I want to pour myself into. I would rather play my own character than one thrust upon me.

Yet the game actively rewards the Origins and ignores customs.

So I am just venting my frustration.

Last edited by Neonivek; 07/09/17 06:14 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609342
07/09/17 05:36 PM
07/09/17 05:36 PM
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The advantage of customs is you can pull from several of the tags the origins have one of the tags + their own quests essentially whereas a custom character gets to choose 2 of the tags.

Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Adrianna] #609345
07/09/17 05:47 PM
07/09/17 05:47 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Adrianna
The advantage of customs is you can pull from several of the tags the origins have one of the tags + their own quests essentially whereas a custom character gets to choose 2 of the tags.


The Origin characters have 2 tags and these tags more often go together for solution sets than the others.

There is no advantage to the Customs in the tag department.

In fact Origin characters also get their Origin tag. Custom characters do not get access to it. Which is also quite often the solution to problems, open up new quests, and new opportunities that ordinary tags do not.

Last edited by Neonivek; 07/09/17 05:52 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609351
07/09/17 06:18 PM
07/09/17 06:18 PM
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Portland, Oregon
Nightmarian Offline
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Originally Posted by Neonivek
Originally Posted by Adrianna
The advantage of customs is you can pull from several of the tags the origins have one of the tags + their own quests essentially whereas a custom character gets to choose 2 of the tags.


The Origin characters have 2 tags and these tags more often go together for solution sets than the others.

There is no advantage to the Customs in the tag department.

In fact Origin characters also get their Origin tag. Custom characters do not get access to it. Which is also quite often the solution to problems, open up new quests, and new opportunities that ordinary tags do not.


Frankly I think you're just over-exaggerating the issue. The tags are a collective pool EVERYONE chooses from, then Origin characters get their own unique ones. Yes, they each have their own stories and motives (GASP) and will continue along whether or not you recruit them.

They get their own stories prewritten while a custom origin is essentially you roleplaying what you want. The XP is pointless to worry about; it might make the game slightly easier but it's not going to make the difference between being level 20 and 60 at the end.

The only time you'd really care about this is if you min/max and somehow hunger for ever last possible shred of xp. The only "advantage" of Origin characters is that you get to see the story from a different perspective and with a singular ability to add some flavor to their playstyle. The goal is that if you decide to play as an Origin later it's a somewhat unique experience.

Your complaints are nitpicking. You don't get Time Warp? Oh, well. It fits Fane being some demigod-like race called the Eternals. It's still a single skill, and your racials will change anyway depending on the race you play so depending on what you do some may or may not suck. He starts with "essential" gear, the hell does that even mean? You can also choose to, you know, stop nitpicking and go earn your gear like literally every other character, Origin or not. What the heck could you possibly want? For Larian to give everyone immediate excess to whatever the hell you call essential gear? Yes you might need to talk to Fane to get the recipe mask (which is in no way essential, by the way, as undead just need to be in full gear to not be detected as undead) but afterward you don't need him.

I'm struggling here to understand the value of your argument. These issues I'd call at best nitpicking. A single character gets an ability you personally believe is strong. What's your solution to that? Give it to everyone? And he starts with "essential" gear? Don't even know what you think that is, but I hardly believe it's essential.

So yes, vent, get it out of your system, and then forget about this.

Last edited by Nightmarian; 07/09/17 06:19 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Nightmarian] #609354
07/09/17 06:21 PM
07/09/17 06:21 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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Name me one thing Custom Origin characters get that is unique to them? Other then their one origin skill.

I can list several things origin characters gets that custom origin characters do not get.

Quote
The XP is pointless to worry about; it might make the game slightly easier but it's not going to make the difference between being level 20 and 60 at the end.


It is the difference between being level 2 and being level 4.

Which is the difference between bumbling around the fort (especially on Tactition mode) and actually continuing with the story.

Quote

A single character gets an ability you personally believe is strong. What's your solution to that?


I've long since given it. Give custom origins a selection of 4 Origin skills.

Here are other solutions
-Give Custom Origin specific quests and storylines.

Or to sum up: "Treat Custom Origin characters as the game's 7th character"

Your post is too long to deal with effectively.

Last edited by Neonivek; 07/09/17 06:26 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609356
07/09/17 06:27 PM
07/09/17 06:27 PM
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Portland, Oregon
Nightmarian Offline
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Originally Posted by Neonivek
Name me one thing Custom Origin characters get that is unique to them?

I can list several things origin characters gets that custom origin characters do not get.

Quote
The XP is pointless to worry about; it might make the game slightly easier but it's not going to make the difference between being level 20 and 60 at the end.


It is the difference between being level 2 and being level 4.


Go ahead and list those things for me, because aside from their personal stories (which includes personal quests) and their unique ability they don't get anything. Also, if you add them to your group you get access to all of those things anyway so you don't have to play as them as your MC.

As for the difference between 2 and 4, that is why I said slightly easier because of the XP give at the start and the initial power spike standard to any cRPG (when you first start getting actual gear and etching out an actual build).

Like I said, you're nitpicking. This might matter more if it was an eSports title or an MMORPG, but it's not. Even if you have to level more slowly, boo hoo, wait for a mod to "fix" that for you or just play the damn game and stop complaining. People have soloed EA on every character archetype, you're going to be just fine.

Somehow thinking custom characters are second class citizens is ridiculous. What are even your solutions to these "problems", you seemed to have ignored that conveniently?



Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Nightmarian] #609357
07/09/17 06:30 PM
07/09/17 06:30 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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-quests
-items
-recipes
-Solutions
-abilities
-events

Quote
Like I said, you're nitpicking


Death of a thousand cuts.

There is nothing that fundamentally hurts custom origins on their own. It is a bunch of little things that makes the game favor origin characters over custom origin characters.

Custom characters are of tertiary importance.

Quote

What are even your solutions to these "problems", you seemed to have ignored that conveniently?


-4 selectable origins
-Custom Origin quest line and events unique to them.

Yeah that is about it. As I said treat them like the 7th character.

This would fix all the problems of making the custom origin character a secondary character of their own story.

---

By the by, what character you playing? Likely custom origin.

Last edited by Neonivek; 07/09/17 06:34 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609376
07/09/17 08:05 PM
07/09/17 08:05 PM
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TraceChaos Offline
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Originally Posted by Neonivek
-quests
-items
-recipes
-Solutions
-abilities
-events

Quote
Like I said, you're nitpicking


Death of a thousand cuts.

There is nothing that fundamentally hurts custom origins on their own. It is a bunch of little things that makes the game favor origin characters over custom origin characters.

Custom characters are of tertiary importance.

Quote

What are even your solutions to these "problems", you seemed to have ignored that conveniently?


-4 selectable origins
-Custom Origin quest line and events unique to them.

Yeah that is about it. As I said treat them like the 7th character.

This would fix all the problems of making the custom origin character a secondary character of their own story.

---

By the by, what character you playing? Likely custom origin.


Fane doesn't start playable with the Mask of the Shapeshifter, which also isn't necessary.

Nobody but, like, Sebille start with any custom items, in fact, and her custom item is her needle which does nothing mechanically but lets her do story stuff.

From my poking around in the EA, not a single character starts off with special recipes.

Solutions? Like what? For quests? Oh yeah, because you can't choose like twelve ways per quest per character regardless of what character (Including custom) you're playing. The number listed is an exaggeration, maybe, but the number of solutions doesn't really change.

Abilities... Well, no sher, shitlock. Race and origin determine like maybe 3 skills. Yeah, origin characters get the same skill, but it's not like that skill is BAD. What amounts to an invulnerability bubble is actually damn useful.

Events... Well, I'll give you that, on the condition that you planned to play the game without companions. With companions, you get not only custom events, but to see them play out and intervene in them both, because you choose to attack or defend or talk them down or so many other things.

I can't think of a single thing that custom characters really 'lose out on', and then there's that entire game mode, y'know, Game Master Mode, where if you like roleplaying you can do with your friends and you'll all be best off being custom characters and telling and weaving new stories that the origin characters wouldn't fit into.

And even -then-, even if you ONLY want the singleplayer main campaign, you're still getting the same basic story. You'll still get bless the same way as the origin characters, and other special source skills. You'll still, assuming it's still in, be able to earn new tags based on your playstyle. You'll still be able to romance the romancable characters, and kill the ones you don't like, and craft the items you know of, and...

And you won't be FORCED to be a possessed bard, or a psychopathic murdering elf who licks strangers, or a pompous arrogant self-inflating demon-dealing lizard more red than blood. You can be YOU, with your backstory. No, you can't be certain things like the former ruler of an empire, because those already exist in the lore of the world, but you could've been an adventurer, or a merchant, or whatever.

Your most valid complaint is the craftingt hing which Fane -might- start with the ability to craft the mask of the shapeshifter as a recipe. But just -talking- to him in fort joy seems to be enough to get the recipe for the face-ripper and the masks, so even if you want to do a 100% solo campaign as a unique undead lizard hydrosophist-summoner, and feel you absolutely MUST use the Mask of the Shapeshifter, then you by all rights -can-. I honestly don't think Larian would prevent that just because they also put the work into the origin characters.

Essentially, by all rights, your custom character IS the seventh origin, because you can make them do things that would actually be BARRED to the other six. There's at least one guy in Fort Joy who even up and refuses to talk to the Red Prince, and that guy sells sick gear. There's another character that if you're playing as Lohse you -have- to try and kill. You actually GET THINGS for being custom, because you don't get things FORCED on you.

Last edited by TraceChaos; 07/09/17 08:08 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Nightmarian] #609380
07/09/17 08:13 PM
07/09/17 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightmarian
Frankly I think you're just over-exaggerating the issue.


Yup, I agree.
If Origin characters had nothing special, there would be no reason to take them.

I'll still play a custom char for my first game, then I'll see but we can see most of the Origin characters story and quest when we pick them as companions so, I don't concern myself with loosing out on content.
Plus it adds replayability.

Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: TraceChaos] #609381
07/09/17 08:20 PM
07/09/17 08:20 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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Originally Posted by TraceChaos
you don't get things FORCED on you.


Let me translate this quickly because the post is long.

You are presenting a non-feature as a positive.

What is the term of presenting something that doesn't exist as a benefit? "Cancer Free Cereal"

Even better non-unique features as a positive. Just because The Red Prince is barred from one shop it doesn't mean Sebille is. That isn't a "Benefit for playing a Custom Origin" that is a benefit for just not playing the Red Prince.

Also remember you can create a game with 4 custom characters OR without Fane.

---

You want to argue against the premise how about instead of constantly telling me how special the Origin characters are... To the extent that the benefit of Custom Origin characters is that they aren't burdened by being as awesome as the origin characters.

You tell me how special the Custom Origin characters are.

Quote
I don't concern myself with loosing out on content


Which is fine but it just amounts to: "I don't care"

I am not forcing you to care. "I" care.

Last edited by Neonivek; 07/09/17 08:24 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609384
07/09/17 08:26 PM
07/09/17 08:26 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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In fact that is the new topic

Give me tangible reasons why Custom Origin characters are special that are unique to them and not shared by anyone else.

Don't give a speech, just give me... One... Other than the one Origin skill (which is a point against custom origins to some extent)

A quest line unique to them, a quest that can only be solved by a custom origin, a item that only they can obtain, a character who only favors the customs.

Last edited by Neonivek; 07/09/17 08:27 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609385
07/09/17 08:27 PM
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TraceChaos Offline
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But the custom origi9n characters ARE unique. Why, just the other day Iw as playing a male elf named Delvin who rejected the ritualistic cannibalism inherent in his race and was a mage-scholar seeking to learn all there is to kinow in the world!

You're acting like the Custom Characters are denied something. They aren't.

Youd on't have tor ecruite Fane to leearn the recipe to get the face ripper or the mask of the shapeshifter. You don't have to be an undead to USE the mask of the shapeshifter. You don't HAVE to deal with custom characters at all, and all you lose out is maybe a small bit of XP, not even enough to, by itself, move youf rom one level to another.

You're overexaggerating to the highest degree, and nitpicking because you're, far as I can tell, just a childish TROLL who did this entire thread tos tart arguments.

Bonus points in favor of this thought in that any time someone posts a reasonably sized, well broken apart post, you reply "Too long didn't read. Here's why you're wrong, lol."

Last edited by TraceChaos; 07/09/17 08:27 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609386
07/09/17 08:27 PM
07/09/17 08:27 PM
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It make sense Origin chracters have their own quests and stories(duh), giving them little bit advantage over custom chracters are normal. If not, there wouldn't be any reason people pick them. And personally I think origin chracters combat abilities rather useless.

Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Kawall] #609387
07/09/17 08:29 PM
07/09/17 08:29 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Kawall
It make sense Origin chracters have their own quests and stories(duh), giving them little bit advantage over custom chracters are normal. If not, there wouldn't be any reason people pick them. And personally I think origin chracters combat abilities rather useless.


Their character, personality, questline, origin skill, story, and unique skill...

Would ALL be reasons to play them instead of a custom origin... Even IF custom origins had their own unique things.

Quote
You're overexaggerating to the highest degree, and nitpicking because you're, far as I can tell, just a childish TROLL who did this entire thread tos tart arguments.


No I am just someone with the polar opposite opinion of you... Who doesn't couch his opinion to spare your feelings... Who also doesn't relent because someone presented an opinion that opposes my own.

This is what this statement truely is: "You are attacking me with your opinion"

Why don't you stop trolling and trying to start fights in this thread? Because your not trolling. No one here is trolling.

Especially since I made it quite clear that this thread is venting.

---

And honestly I didn't think this would GET this much attention because of two reasons

-1) Most players PLAY the origin characters and don't care about custom origin characters.
-2) People who play the custom origin characters expect they will miss out on content and that they are not catered to.

So the expected audience I had would be the few people who actually play customs who didn't just accept it who wanted to say a few words and vent a little.

Not the game defense league. I have no idea what about my topic offends people so much.

Last edited by Neonivek; 07/09/17 08:43 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609388
07/09/17 08:31 PM
07/09/17 08:31 PM
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Deadknight Offline

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Originally Posted by Neonivek
Which is fine but it just amounts to: "I don't care"

I am not forcing you to care. "I" care.


The reason why, is simply because you can still access their content with your companions. So pick the 4 guys you like the most you will still see their content.
The fact it might 3rd person view for your companion isn't a loss of content.

If you feel like playing again, choose one custom and the one you didn't pick the first time.
I prefer custom character because I don't feel like having to roleplay a predetermined character and I feel like having more freedom with the character's development.

I actually like that it since gives me more content to see on subsequent playthrough. That is why I don't really get the seemingly angry rant.

Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Deadknight] #609390
07/09/17 08:36 PM
07/09/17 08:36 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Deadknight
I actually like that it gives me more to see on more than one playthrough, that is why I don't really get the seemingly angry rant.


Different play styles and expectations mostly.

I am probably never going to chose anyone but the custom origin AND I am going to play multiplayer everytime (inventory management solo is a nightmare)

As well I treat the character I made as "THE" main character. Regardless of what occurs or what the characters do.

Last edited by Neonivek; 07/09/17 08:38 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609396
07/09/17 08:42 PM
07/09/17 08:42 PM
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The way I see it is. DOS had no real origin story for the main characters. But you had dialogues and quest for companions. Pretty much the same but additionally instead you can pick the companion as main character.

Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Deadknight] #609399
07/09/17 08:51 PM
07/09/17 08:51 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Deadknight
The way I see it is. DOS had no real origin story for the main characters. But you had dialogues and quest for companions. Pretty much the same but additionally instead you can pick the companion as main character.


Which is fair enough.

Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609404
07/09/17 09:22 PM
07/09/17 09:22 PM
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You seem to asume that everybody plays origin-chars just cause they already have all the story maybe more than you can create yourself with a custom one.

I would advise you to look at this poll made by Larian which sees things a "bit" differently. Granted Beast and Fane were not yet avaible at the time the poll was made, but still it shows that people are interested in origins-chars but thats not their major focus at all.

http://www.strawpoll.me/11084333/r

Last edited by MAsterX; 07/09/17 09:23 PM.
Re: This game seems to hate Custom Origins (Venting) [Re: Neonivek] #609417
07/09/17 11:40 PM
07/09/17 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Neonivek
Don't give a speech, just give me... One... Other than the one Origin skill (which is a point against custom origins to some extent)
Just one?

When you are out adventuring, white dialog appears over your characters head. Its flavored according to your origin (Lohse is hilarious, for example).

Custom Characters get unique white dialog above their head.

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