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drBrod Offline OP
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I wonder how this stat works now. During EA it was necessary to act before enemies, but now it seems weird. Sometimes the combat rounds are just "one mine, one them", and i haven't yet figured out how this system works.
It's good now to boost initiative on your party?

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Are you playing Tactician? Initiative works different there ^^

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Are you playing Tactician? Initiative works different there ^^


Wait, so Classic is still "Stack wits and AoE them all in one turn?"

I thought that was a global change in general.

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Originally Posted by Ellezard
Wait, so Classic is still "Stack wits and AoE them all in one turn?"

I thought that was a global change in general.


Do you hire a helicopter to get lifted back up onto your high horse?

(You didn't need to include the dose of condescension directed at anyone who isn't playing Tactician difficulty.)

Last edited by Stabbey; 17/09/17 03:56 PM.
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I don't know, I hardly played because its hard to get 4 people together sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Ellezard
Wait, so Classic is still "Stack wits and AoE them all in one turn?"

I thought that was a global change in general.


Do you hire a helicopter to get lifted back up onto your high horse?


It's so high you think they give it +50% height.

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drBrod Offline OP
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Atm i'm playing on tactician, and i put one point in wit almost every level.

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Originally Posted by drBrod
Atm i'm playing on tactician, and i put one point in wit almost every level.


You only need wit on one char, the one you intended to always go first.

The rest go pure damage or whatever you want.

With the initiative rotation, no matter how high or low your wit is, you will always get to go because it's always You-enemy-you-enemy assuming you went first.

And it goes form "highest" to lowest ini when deciding who from your team will go next.

So yeah, min-maxing, 1 char with Wits and damage, the rest pure damage along with whatever else they need.

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[quote=Kalrakh]Are you playing Tactician? Initiative works different there ^^ [/quote]

Can you somehow confirm that?

Cause I've read multiple times that the staggered turn order is global and not a tactician mode thing.


Last edited by JamesDyk; 19/09/17 09:09 AM.
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As far as I see it is the same on Tactician and Classic. It is really different compared to the EA because it generally makes the attribute Wits unimportant. I increase it on one char (Summoner) to go first, then it is in alternating order you-AI.

Which is not bad game design in itself because it prevents the whole PC group going first all the time, as I had it in the EA. Because of the new mechanic I actually lost a fight one time on Classic, the Dallis encounter on the ship. The coming Battletech Mech turn based game uses the same alternating order, it's the way of greatest fairness.




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Originally Posted by geala
The coming Battletech Mech turn based game uses the same alternating order, it's the way of greatest fairness.


No it doesn't. All available gameplay for it shows teams acting as a whole, one after the other.


It's also a completely unfair system: when you invest in wits as a stat, it's for the late-game promise of frequent critical hits, and the immediate benefit of your team being able to go before the enemy(which you need because of the complete lack of utility that comes from wits otherwise).

As it is, leveling wits is solely a tool for ordering your party so the guys you want to go first get to go first, and if you want the crit guy to go last it's tough shit cause there's no other way to alter initiative, or delay your turn to a specific moment(you always give up all your initiative, never just enough to go before the next enemy/after the next ally).

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Wits still gives you a critical chance. It is a bad attribute as such, unlike in the EA, I concur. But it was too easy to destroy the AI in the EA because you could go first with the whole party. Any boss was dead the first turn without doing anything (except Radeka, the bi..., uhm, witch). Maybe that's the reason they changed it.

As to Battletech, I'm not sure about what "teams acting as a whole" you speak. Maybe we are talking about different games? In the Battletech I mean (from HBS) the AI (or enemy player in PvP) and you act in alternating order, one AI Mech, one of yours. It's actually more complicated because there are tiers of the move order and you can reserve your moves to a certain degree, but that's not the place to discuss it here.

Last edited by geala; 19/09/17 10:33 AM.
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The "Everyone takes a turn" is the only way to create a fair turn-based combat system else they will have to balance the game around everyone on your team always acting first because half decent player will just abuse high ini glass cannon build and they will have to bloat the enemies armor and defense even higher to prevent this mockery.

Remember in EA how unfair and broken it was to pump enough wits and have your entire team go first with a teleport set-up to a teamwide AoE CC. That old system fair for the player because it's broken and is unfair for the AI. They might as well give you a button to autowin every non-boss fight since you can round everyone up and just perma CC them all starting at turn 1.

At least Wit stat is more useful than lolCON. That stat is still a noobtrap.

Last edited by Ellezard; 19/09/17 10:40 AM.
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Yeah, constitution not boosting shields is just fcking blasphemy frown

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drBrod Offline OP
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Mmh i understand the reason for this decision about init system, but i dont think this is necessarily the best way to do it. Now it feels just bad to boost initiative with other characters, and you need to do it in many scenario (for example, when you dont go first with your critter).
What about a system that debuff the first turn characters? like a card game, who go first also have some sort of disadvantages during that turn. It could balance and prevent the EA op wombo combos on first turn.

Last edited by drBrod; 19/09/17 11:01 AM.
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That way we could just remove wits altogether tho, and give crit to finesse or smthng smile Not a bad idea imo

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Wit and ini is fine the way it is. Go buff Con and Mem because those 2 are the weakest stat atm in any good min-max build. Con is a joke stat and Mem is a waste of point on non-mage because most skills have been nerfed to barely deal any more damage than normal attacking. Only mages really care about Mem now because they have to be able to use all the good spells of every school to be useful if they don't want to be a summoning tool.

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Hah, memory is far from being useless, since it is used in most mage builds and every single hybrid build...

This way I could claim that strength is useless because it is used only by warfare characters -_-

Constitution tho... what a waste of text

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I'm a bit baffled. How many points do you have in Memory? I'm about 14 to 16 even on my melee chars (at lvl 8), you need a lot utility stuff, any of my chars f.e. has a heal and mobility spell.

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Originally Posted by geala
I'm a bit baffled. How many points do you have in Memory? I'm about 14 to 16 even on my melee chars (at lvl 8), you need a lot utility stuff, any of my chars f.e. has a heal and mobility spell.


0.

A proper min/maxed char will have a certain school mastered first. By the time I dip into Geomancer for red prince to get Earth quake, Mending armor and fortify, I already have enough free slots I don't need to worry.

The thing is, if your builds are properly min/maxed and your weapons are all legendaries the same level as you, most fights end in 2 turns so you never get to use all those mobility and healing spells. I'm stomping at level 15 tactician atm with way too much damage and if the fight gets to turn 3 or something, it's because the fight has too many ranger heavily spaced or is a long one like Primodial Oil/Fire battle.

Only Fane, my tank mage, has 8 into Mem and I only use him for the same 7-8 spells at most, barely needing anymore point in Mem. I just have it there because I am too lazy to swap out some spell although I will never use them.

Last edited by Ellezard; 19/09/17 11:32 AM.
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