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#618797 22/09/17 07:21 AM
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Is there even a way to tank in this game ?

Mobs ALWAYS going for my squishies in the back even tho they are far away from my tank in the front, they just completly ignore him.

And because you have to strip down armor first it means there is also no way to CC them /sigh ...

Pretty frustrated right now with the game, in DOS1 I could just position my tank / pets just right and mobs usually would stop there and attack them, probably also because of the talent oppurtunist.

But in this game they ignore everything it seems.

So should I know build everyone as tank to have a chance ? In act 2 there are even mobs that are able to 1 shot.

Maybe Iam overseeing something and someone can enlighten me ?

I love this game overall very much but being unable to tank or CC is just frustrating at the moment, I see no way right now but just to build everyone tanky and that feels just wrong for "DDs".

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All mobs are equally smart and therefore to smart, there seems to be no real difference in smartness between a zombie and an elite or a boss, so kind of misses a possibility in different enemie behaviour for better immersion.

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they just need to make taunt usefull - a bit longer range and no armor resisted (based on chance or enemy's intellect).
It's so sad when the game so cool overall, but some concepts make it's parts just frustrating and nonsensible.

Last edited by Sergey Butsenov; 22/09/17 07:31 AM.
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Perhaps one of the only safe "squishy" damage dealing classes would be an archer with sneak specialization. I didn't try a sneak build yet in the current game state, so i don't know how good it would be AP wise.

In other circumstances, if an enemy AI wants to hit you, they'll find a way, unless they glitch and attack columns or hit walls with projectiles. Also thanks to the jumps/dashes ability which makes positioning less effective.

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Well they will always do the right thing, and that is "kill the paper hero".

BUT tanky characters of course have their uses - let them be tanky just enough to survive, but pump up their attack damage as much as possible, use opportunist talent and be VERY aggresive, and I mean seriously charge them head on, if you manage to position your tank between 3 squishier enemies, they will take a lot of damage if they try to flee thx to opportunist - or they have to engage you, and that is the moment when you are good as tank.

If they still use abilites and such on your squishies, just focus their armor asap and knock them down. Also alternatively, your tank should probably have most of the support skills like fortify, magic shell and such to help your damaged teammates

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You can always play solo with a tanky char so you'll tank smile
If monster go deep like kamikaze it's supposed to get flanked fast enough.
Also a tank with opportunist talent is ok - can do several hits when mobs are running near.

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Have the tank get Leadership and everyone will be tanky

And if they stand behind the tank, enemies that run past will give free AoO.

Also, if you are dying real fast in Act 2, it means you either need to buy/find new gears or go to another area for quests. Look at the level of you and whatever is in that zone (like animals and other npcs) so you can tell if you're in the right area or not.

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Well thats the thing, they just stripped away choices it seems with DOS2. While in DOS1 I could try to tank, to status effect mobs or to CC here is nothing left but to have always proper gear for enough shields.

But because Ive tried so much around with different skills which are expensive I dont have any gold anymore to get better gear from merchants. Stealing is also not an option because Ive stolen pretty much everything always I could.

Iam lvl12 and mobs are lvl14, I cant find any lower anymore.

I was leaving Act 1 with lvl8 and I did everything on the map I could before leaving, maybe not questwise but killed every mob even in jail the dogs.

Dunno anymore nothing seems to work except better gear but thats not an option right now except maybe for cheating :/.

Ive tried already all, more constitution, stink, glass cannon/no glass cannon, full damage, alot of initiative, healing spells, armor skills etc. etc. etc., mobs right now are just dealing way too much damage while also being very tanky even the archers and no way to tank or CC except for spider legs.

So my only option would be to start all over and spend my gold always on good gear.

My party build is a

"Tank" with Warfare, Geomancer and Polymorph.
"Healer" with Hydro, Aero, 1 point in Pyro for dispel and 2 points in Polymorph for "Spread your Wings"
"Ranger" with Marksman, 1 point in Pyro for dispel, 2 in scoundrel for sleep and the teleport skill, and 2 points now for the healing spell and the one which makes you immune and nearly heal you to full
"Fire Mage" with Pyro/Geomancer, little bit more in Pyro than Geo, 2 in Poly for "Spread your Wings" and now also 2 in Hydro for healing and the immune spell

All I can say it doesnt work anymore, the healing really isnt sufficient to withstand all the damage and it also has CDs. And being able to fly around while nice is also not anymore enough because mobs are also teleporting and jumping around.

So as I said the only thing I could imagine would be better gear because here where it really lacks but items are not raining from the sky just magically and I dont have any gold left because like Ive said trying around with spells is expensive.

So either the new armor system is a problem because you cant CC and not even status effect which is a real bummer as a mage type class or that you cant tank. If my tank only would be able to tank or I to CC :/ but its not possible.

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You can use the same combo enemies do on their tanks.

Fortify REactive armor TAunt. That deals huge burst damage, enough to go through most shield or even kills since it does damage based on how much armor you have. Then you can taunt with that.

The game really expect you to have Thievery or Magic charm especially with the free reset mirror if you want to keep up with new items every level.

Last edited by Ellezard; 22/09/17 09:02 AM.
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Ive just tried reactive armor today, its a nice spell no doubt but also not enough. When boosted it does like ~500 damage and mobs having over 1k armor.

My ranger has 5 thievery and really I always stolen what I could because I liked it, it was like a minigame. And you only can steal once from a NPC so thats not possible anymore.

I sadly have to say I like DOS1 EE much better, more options and choices.

First I thought I would have get used to the new system but being now so deep into the game and tried so much I really dont like the new shield system. I mean it would be ok if my tank would be able to tanke like in DOS1 but its not possible, not even taunt works.

And even if taunt would work its just for 1 round and a small radius.

SO the game seems to be just a HUGE gearcheck instead of letting the player to play around it by CCing and status effecting mobs, this is sad and no fun :(.

But thanks anyways for your time, appreciate it.

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I still think that having a reverse stench talent and maybe having it scale with warfare points would be a neat addition to solve this issue.

I also agree with Kalrakh here. Turning every single grunt into an expert battlefield tactician was a bad choice. High int enemy mobs should, of course, use highly effective tactics, but yeah. Zombies? Give me a break.

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Well how about having all your squishies be in stealth at start of the combat? This should allow your tank to get hit by lot of precious cooldowns before your other characters join into the party, greatly increasing your survivability smile

Also just use oil on everybody, and they will have MUCH harder time to do anything at all..

Last edited by TsunAmik; 22/09/17 10:54 AM.
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I feel like I should be glad I didn't play the first game as it provided that I didn't have any expectations for the second game. All the stuff people having problems with design wise are ok to me. Only thing that does igg me a bit is once I use all my skills in a turn, I'm probably stuck with basic attack for 3-4 turns while my skills are on cooldown(turndown? lol). Having said that, I just try to get all the enemies to go after Red Prince. Dude is a freaking bustruck(yes new word).

Last edited by Rasikko; 22/09/17 12:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
All mobs are equally smart and therefore to smart, there seems to be no real difference in smartness between a zombie and an elite or a boss, so kind of misses a possibility in different enemie behaviour for better immersion.


Yes, this is a flaw with AI 2.0. Making them all equally smart and most interested in targeting the weakest target undermines many things which would otherwise be useful. Smart AI is best used in a smart way.

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Hi Crusher,

I felt the same and then decided to go the other way around: if we can't Cc at start, let's be able to move my chars and enemies a lot. And you know what, it works like a "charm" wink

Add Teleport on mostly all you character as well as mobility spells.

Try and let me know, I'm pretty sure it'll help you overpass this tough moment you're having and get the XP you need to keep up with the future enemies!

Cheers smile

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That is, what the game should not be: Having four characters with the pretty much completely same skill set, because those skills are kind of mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Sergey Butsenov
they just need to make taunt usefull - a bit longer range and no armor resisted (based on chance or enemy's intellect).
It's so sad when the game so cool overall, but some concepts make it's parts just frustrating and nonsensible.


Reactive armor is one of the few skills that reward defense with offense. If the armor system isn't overhauled, then one way to capatilize on enemy AI ignoring your tank, is to introduce more skills that punish them for going directly after your squishies.

With that said though, Taunt definitely needs a buff.

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I used to be a proponent of taunt working through armor, but the idea of enemies being able to taunt me whenever they want to terrifies me. Not because I don't get to use that char for the next turn, but rather because when you're taunted the scenarios play out like this:

*Magister casts taunt*; "Hey Ifan, I bet those elf babies loved that deathfog you put on them!"

*Magister words penetrate Ifan's leather vest*; "WELL F*** YOU, I'M GOING TO DRINK ALL MY POTIONS AND USE ALL MY SCROLLS THAT'LL TEACH YOU!"

I've had characters using all available AP point extending abilities like tea and adrenaline rush just so they can drink more potions. The list goes a third way across my 1920x1080 screen.

Sometimes if the AI is feeling whimsical it will use source points for the most retarded reasons as well.

For these reasons I see taunt as very punishing to the player and needs to be resisted by armor whether it makes sense or not. If taunt will remain affected by armor, there better AOE CCs I'd rather be using on the enemies anyway. So until they fix mad/possessed/taunted AI, they should just leave taunt in a ditch where it belongs. Loss of control of characters is probably the most frustrating thing in the game for me.

By extension the concept of a single tank doesn't really make sense in the current state of the game.

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Seconded that taunt is frustrating vs player and it ignoring armor is absolutely not an option. Besides, if you have tank character with high dodge and resists taunt = hard CC. All other hard CCs need to get through armor and by extension you can argue that they should get through it. As long as they don't, taunt shouldn't either.

How to make a tank? First of all, why do you expect the game to support the "tank" playstyle? It's not an oldschool MMO. If you're just a damage sponge with no other abilities you're useless and rightfully so. If you are actually able to do damage you can punish enemies for ignoring you with AOO. I usually made my cleric/summoner my "tank". He can heal/summon/restore armor/remove CC/teleport enemies away etc while having a shield and being really hard to kill or CC himself. Works just fine.

Last edited by MadDemiurg; 08/11/17 03:05 PM.
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Why we expect Tanks to be viable? Perhaps because Retaliation exists? It's useless if you not can tank.

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