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Its not my combo. Its yours
I just add third EQ or another AOE CC
And we are compearing 2 systems not tactical dessigions right now


Btw, i dont see text fromating on this site (bold or something) maybe some browser problem

Have u read my edited msg about Pyro?
Sorry for tonns of edits my english is on school level

Last edited by Roamer; 03/10/17 01:19 AM.

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Current system, Earthquake combo only works if you take the extra step to break physical armor. This means the game winning strat require set-up for it to be used.

Proposed System, multiple Earthquake destroy everything so you can just spam it. Situational and set-up combo turns into "Fire-and-forget" because the limitations all have been removed, just with dice roll slapped on top of them.

If the system is designed without even keeping tactical decisions in mind, why even try to bring it up in a game that is supposed to be about tactic? The game needs more situational combo and viable winning strat, not less of them.

If you want RNG CC back, then it's time to remove majority of the CC from AoE mage tree and make most of CC single-target.

Last edited by Ellezard; 03/10/17 01:21 AM.
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So u dont agree with my calculations that in current system u dont even need CC and could kill all things in first round like Pyro, or u could CC everithing in first round with 100% chance

and in suggested system u cant CC with 100% chance for the same period of time (even with current armor numbers)

And pls, no more "RNG is less tactical". Just read the full tread

(Ur tactical dessigions: CC or DMG)
(My - CC or if not, then some escape, or better cryostasis, then some dmg and CC again...if all goes bad and enemy will CC me with 1% chance i will try to dispell it... if things will be even worse i will use resurection scroll and continue my fight)

Last edited by Roamer; 03/10/17 01:35 AM.

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Stuffs like Arrow storm, meteor Shower and Lone wolves are seperate issues, especially lone wolves. Item scaling needs to be addressed and that will directly nerf Arrow storm. They have nothing to do with the armor system.

And even if you can't CC 100% of the time, what matters is that it allows you to CC before the intended turn ON MULTIPLE ENEMIES. That's the problem. MULTIPLE ENEMIES.

In the current system, you have 100% CC chance on that target, this target and 0 on the rest.

In the proposed system you have a range of 25-60% on every targets in the area after using a single AoE.

If there are a lot of AoE CC to choose from, RNG CC immediately becomes a big no. If skills like Earthquake can be spammed and on average, shut off half of the enemy team, that's just BS, not tactical. If RNG CC is to come back, skills like Earthquake, Chain Lighting and any large multi-hit skill in the game must all have their CC removed and toned down to soft-cc to make the game playable and not be a total joke.

Last edited by Ellezard; 03/10/17 01:33 AM.
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Damn)) stop it) let me watch my movie)

Yeah u could CC MULTIPLE ENEMIES (not single) with 100% chance in current system in the first round with different builds w/o any tactic (and yes there are enought AOE CC in Aero and Hydro schools)

and u COULD NOT 100% CC in suggested system (even in round#100, cos of diminishing returns if not ROUNDED)

all other ur suggestions - just NO. You dont understend what problems we are trying to solve here. And its not just one you talk about.

P.S. Enemies could CC u too smile

Last edited by Roamer; 03/10/17 02:04 AM.

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i've seen a poll somewhere here. Around 60% of players think that something NEEDS to be changed. With minor or major tweaks.So...
I suggest to buff vitality and make a single CC-shield bar with no RNG which will decrease simultaneously with damage to vitality at some %. Add some spells\skills that will burn that CC-shield directly with no damage to vitality.
This would let you decide - try to kill fast with no CC or try to CC enemy. There still would be a CC protection as it is now but would let lone mages do not feel that some of them are worthless in party of 3 physical DD.

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Originally Posted by Sergey Butsenov
i've seen a poll somewhere here. Around 60% of players think that something NEEDS to be changed. With minor or major tweaks.So...


That number does not mean anything. That poll was most certainly mostly answered by the people who don't like the system. Other people are busy playing instead of whining.

You guys are all taking this way too seriously. This is a single/coop narrative driven RPG. Not a competitive e-sports game.

You have all the right to dislike the system but stop acting like this is serious business, and trying to play game designers.

Enjoy the game or don't, but stop acting entitled and all knowing while you have 0 ideas what it means to create such a huge and complex game.

I can't even imagine what's happening in your life in general to make you lose your time fighting on a forum for that stuff.

PS: I just came here to post about a bug I got. I m going back playing the game and won't check back this thread. You should do the same. Life is more agreeable when you stop being bitter and all revolted about everything.




Last edited by vometia; 03/10/17 05:33 AM. Reason: formatting
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Originally Posted by Lauraliane
Originally Posted by Sergey Butsenov
i've seen a poll somewhere here. Around 60% of players think that something NEEDS to be changed. With minor or major tweaks.So...


That number does not mean anything. That poll was most certainly mostly answered by the people who don't like the system. Other people are busy playing instead of whining.

You guys are all taking this way too seriously. This is a single/coop narrative driven RPG. Not a competitive e-sports game.

You have all the right to dislike the system but stop acting like this is serious business, and trying to play game designers.

Enjoy the game or don't, but stop acting entitled and all knowing while you have 0 ideas what it means to create such a huge and complex game.

I can't even imagine what's happening in your life in general to make you lose your time fighting on a forum for that stuff.

PS: I just came here to post about a bug I got. I m going back playing the game and won't check back this thread. You should do the same. Life is more agreeable when you stop being bitter and all revolted about everything.





We discuss the topic because we're invested and interested in the game and want to see it get even better. I play the game and think about what could make it even better because I enjoy it, and I assume most people here do as well despite our different ideas and solutions.

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Originally Posted by Lauraliane

blah blah blah...

Don't teach me(us) how to live or how to relate to something. Got nothing constructive? Just move along.

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Originally Posted by Lauraliane

That number does not mean anything. That poll was most certainly mostly answered by the people who don't like the system. Other people are busy playing instead of whining.


Sure. Always the same answer.
20000+ treads in General/Tips and tricks
vs 8000 in Suggestions and Feedback


Originally Posted by Lauraliane

You guys are all taking this way too seriously. This is a single/coop narrative driven RPG. Not a competitive e-sports game.

You have all the right to dislike the system but stop acting like this is serious business


It is not just a toy from your childhood
Its a result of work and business
If some Baker will create bad Bread
Or some Device developer will create bad Smartphone
... dont take all too seriously just use bad products

Last edited by Roamer; 03/10/17 08:47 AM.

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Originally Posted by Ghatt

In games with die rolls and/or percentages there are usually ways to improve your odds through careful planning. If you're ignoring that aspect of the planning stage then yes you'll often find yourself on the wrong side of the die roll. Calling die rolls RNG, isn't really true either, as your bonuses through stats, abilities, talents, and environment should improve or hurt your odds given the unique circumstances of the encounter, which takes the randomness out of the equation. A random die roll wouldn't take anything into account, it would just be a set chance that's completely unaltered. That would be random. A die roll that takes your bonuses into account is not random.


If it is the goal to take the randomness out of the equation with careful planning it would be better to remove the randomness in the first place and replace it with important tactical choices. Chess is an example of such a game smile

Originally Posted by qwerty3w

For singleplayer, the player would usually reload battles lost by bad luck, but not the ones won by good luck. He ends up cheating in a sense even without save scumming.

For multiplayer, to get a fair outcome you may need multiple matches to approximate statistical average, which is several times more time consuming.


Exactly.

I think that one of the following systems should improve the current situation:

Every character gets a physical ward and a magical ward:
- The physical ward should be either inactive or active
- The magical ward should be either inactive or active
- Status effects should be applied if the corresponding ward is inactive
- The physical ward should be active at the beginning of every turn
- The magical ward should be active at the beginning of every turn
- Physical weapons should have the basic skill "Shatter" to set the physical ward to inactive
- Elemental weapons should have the basic skill "Dispel" to set the magical ward to inactive
- Both skills should cost 2 ap and they should have the same range as the equipped weapon
- Armor should increase the resistance against physical, air, earth, ... damage by x %


The following solution would be probably easier to implement:
- Reduce the current armor values by 25 %
- Remove the Perseverance skill
- A character should regenerate 25 % of his magic armor when he is frozen or stunned
- A character should regenerate 25 % of his physical armor when he is knocked down or petrified


Last edited by Wizard1200; 03/10/17 08:36 AM.
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Originally Posted by Wizard1200

and replace it with important tactical choices


Guys, really, tell me please about ur important tactical choices in a game u could play w/o any CC or play it with 100% CC from the first round.
Cos i think with RNG ull have even harder chains (trees) of tactical choices.

This game is not a chess - u dont need to plan your next 20 turns.

Last edited by Roamer; 03/10/17 09:12 AM.

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Originally Posted by Roamer
Originally Posted by Wizard1200

and replace it with important tactical choices


Guys, really, tell me please about ur important tactical choices in a game u could play w/o any CC or play it with 100% CC from the first round.
Cos i think with RNG ull have even harder chains (trees) of tactical choices.

This game is not a chess - u dont need to plan your next 20 turns.


With RNG the choices boil down to risk management "This is statistically giving me the best outcome so is the best choice, but it costs XX and YY so if I do happen to roll low I'm screwed"

The best choices are already there with or without RNG, but with RNG you can... randomly get neutered by no fault of your own.

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There is nothing to complain about in a game that lets you re-spec early and in a game that you can save/load. CC or no-CC the combat is fun. I prefer DOS2 system over DOS:EE, but that doesn't mean DOS2 couldn't be fun with a different CC system. My gripe is that fans don't understand how much work it takes to put together a game like this when they ask to make these huge changes. We were given an Editor and GM mode, even Arena. Be thankful.

Last edited by vivalafai; 03/10/17 07:54 PM.
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Its took alot of time to create a supercar too... but if its broken or made of wood?

Many players dont belive Larian would change something, and just showing them their misstakes - i.e. "Guys, dont think we will buy EA next time"

Last edited by Roamer; 03/10/17 08:31 PM.

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Roamer, I have to admit I have not read all the responses so far. I want to address your position to a single CC resist vs 2 CC resists for physical and magical.

Picture an ememy who has 1 magic armor and 99 physical armor (a beefy warrior for example). My party is comprised of magic damage dealers. I am in trouble here.. I cannot effectively magically CC this enemy. He will have a CC resist of 99 percent. Seems odd... the cleche achilles heel of a phsyically imposing, plate wearing warrior is his weakness to magic controlling effects. your system models this backwards. Just my 2 cents.

Last edited by AussieKSU; 03/10/17 09:10 PM.
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Originally Posted by vivalafai
There is nothing to complain about in a game that lets you re-spec early and in a game that you can save/load.


Oh. Okay, then I guess those bugs with instantly closing dialogue windows with certain NPC's are not actually bugs but working as intended.

(There is absolutely zero relation between saving/reloading, respeccing, and the armor system. The existence of respecs and saving/reloading does not automatically mean there are literally zero issues with the game and no one should complain about anything. That is a completely idiotic statement and you should be ashamed for making that claim.)


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Originally Posted by AussieKSU

Picture an ememy who has 1 magic armor and 99 physical armor (a beefy warrior for example). My party is comprised of magic damage dealers. I am in trouble here.. I cannot effectively magically CC this enemy. He will have a CC resist of 99 percent. Seems odd... the cleche achilles heel of a phsyically imposing, plate wearing warrior is his weakness to magic controlling effects. your system models this backwards. Just my 2 cents.


this is not ingame numbers - 1 and 99
But mages can deal with it cos they have INT scaled phys dmg spells like mosquitoes and others
mages could use warfare INT scaled skills with equiped wands or stufs

and as i know the easiest solution for ur exemple is not to use CC and just kill everything (pyro mage with phoenix dive (-1 ap cost for fire spells standing on fire) +nova,laser,fireboll +exectioner (+2 ap per kill) + adrenaline+ elf + other spells = 1 round of the fight w/o any CC)

CC is not the main problem
Gray and Blue HP bars are doing almost nothing in current system. Almost - cos they could only ruine party cooperations, they dont decrease incoming dmg to HP like armors should do, they could easely be shreded in first round for 100% CC, they are two illogical walls right now etc...

Last edited by Roamer; 03/10/17 10:37 PM.

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This thread is about the armor system, not bugs. I shouldn't have to explain this to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills and an understanding of context.

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Implementing an armor system you don't like is not giving you a broken product.

Before digital downloads and EA people bought a game and if they didn't like it, that was too bad. At least with EA you have the opportunity to be disappointed at a discount.

I'm probably one of the few people that couldn't care less if this game had the armor system or not. I would still enjoy it. DOS2 has a few fatal bugs and some balancing issues, for example I thought 1AP combat sneak was too cheap, so they made it 4AP, which is insane to me...then I saw a mod for a 2AP version. The greatest thing about this game is not the solo, campaign, it's the amazing replay value we get with the other modes.

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