Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback Armor System Comics :)

Those 100 options boil down to, use an attack with a cc effect and hope it works.

Backlash then chloroform / chicken claw / something till it works.
Aoe knockdown till it works.
Spells till it works.

You get to try lots of things but the decision isn't meaningful. If you're just praying on cc working, you're just praying on cc working.

Conversely, current system tells you what to expect, but also tells you what options you have to counter and those moves matter because you won't randomly get picked off by rng. This also feeds back to the enemy who can strategize around what they objectively need to achieve. When you can predict outcomes, you have better insight to actually strategize and make tactically meaningful decisions.

Igniz13

Those 100 options boil down to, use an attack with a cc effect and hope it works.

Read previous msg -> not 100 for DoS2. But more then in Non RNG system.

Aoe knockdown till it works

U mean using "no CD on spells" mods?

If you're just praying on cc working, you're just praying on cc working.

I dont need CC to kill everything
I dont Pray on CC
I just take risks and make decisions
And this thread not only about RNG CC

Conversely, current system tells you what to expect, but also tells you what options you have to counter and those moves matter because you won't randomly get picked off by rng.

I want randomly get picked off! Can u imagine?
Current system have alot of holes
btw, 50% of ingame CC already have RNG cos of lots of RNG factors/conditions, every weapon could have 5-20% of cc effect on it, and i dont want to repeat it 10 times on this forum.

P.S. btw chances is not fully RNG. There is a different RNG types. For exemple: u could not dodge 2-3 times in a row with 5% dodge chance, or miss few times in a row with 99% hit chance (PoE RNG system)

In the current version, to determine how much health damage I can do to an enemy, I need to compare my damage number with the remaining enemy armor. If the damage number is larger, I can break the armor, hit the enemy health and apply a status. If it is smaller, I cannot.

In your version, to determine how much health damage I can do to an enemy, I need to calculate what percentage of enemy armor is remaining and then calculate what percentage of the damage will go to armor, and what percentage will go to health. If I also want to know if a status will apply, I need to calculate the total percentage of M/P armor remaining, which only gives me a rough guess about whether the status will apply.

Hence why in my opinion, your idea is more complicated and less intuitive. (My idea of needing to take 75% of the damage is more complicated and less intuitive than the current system, but less complicated than yours.)




I don't understand what you mean by that unless you explain.




"Taking risks" is praying on CC. Your system has RNG CC as a key component of it, so it is a fair thing to discuss.




That's wrong. You absolutely COULD dodge 2-3 times in a row with a 5% dodge chance or miss a few turns in a row with a 95% hit chance.

It is UNLIKELY to happen, but it is POSSIBLE. That's what chances greater than 0% mean.

Stabbey

In your version, to determine how much health damage I can do to an enemy, I need to calculate what percentage of enemy armor is remaining and then calculate what percentage of the damage will go to armor, and what percentage will go to health.

tooltips/hints could calculate this and show.

I don't understand what you mean by that unless you explain.

if u dont want to read forum ill repeat.
- CC depends of dmg, crit and accuracy RNG
- RNG on ice
- RNG liquid appearence
- unpredictable terrain for warriors Rush or TP spells (u cant plan it until u use it)
- every ingame weapon could have like 5-50% chance of some CC. Use ricochet arrow and pray
- random autoteleportation
- fogs
- unpredictable movement (it shows 2 ap cost to move, but after steping on oil it cost like 4-5 to move to the enemy)

and alot more RNG factors and conditions - so the game is already fully RNG.


That's wrong. You absolutely COULD dodge 2-3 times in a row with a 5% dodge chance or miss a few turns in a row with a 95% hit chance.

Once again. There is a different systems for calculating chances. Some systems have some restrictions - if u already missed with 99% chance next chance will be increased to 100% and vice versa (something like this). Ur average chance still be the same - 99%, but u will never see 3 misses in a row. If u have played Path of Exile - they are using that RNG system

From what i read

When you take decision before wasting a CC

current system, simple :

• * no armor, yes
• * too much armor, no

with RNG system, realistic :

• * no armor, yes
• * too dangerous now, maybe later
• * with just a little luck, hope now
• * too much armor, no )

well, that's 100% more tactical.

when you see at the consequences

current, all planned :
* no frustration from faillure
* little satisfaction from succes

RNG system, intuition most of the time :
* high frustration from faillure
* high satisfaction from succes


Problems :
* all mighty soldier with armor
* once depleted, become victim with chain CC
* HP just dealy the finality

Do you really need to burst 1 guy with both magical and physical all the time ?
Except immportant npc like bosses who has nearly 50/50 in most of the case,
regular encounter group is composed from many different type of armor :
STR based armor are weak to magical
INT based armor is weak to physical
FIN has no wealness nor high defense

solution :
1 ) from stabbey
armor absorb a part of damage, rest goes to hp
then armor will be more durable and will prevent CC even more.
Less Chain CC bully and more synergy between physical & magical

2) from roamer
more realistic armor system mix from old and new system.
Less "déjà vu" feeling when you retry the fight/game, it's liike an entire new fight.
many player fear "high fructration from faillure"

3 ) some idea i miss or forget it

4) my dumb idea
activ armor can only block a certain amount of cc each turn
physical and magical independently
when cc is applyed, target gain immunity or cc effectivness reduction
for some turn for one type of cc take down, cripple, freeze, sleep, .... )
could be improved from talent
less all mighty armored ennemy
less chain cc bully

an example :
Target, Slime imaginary boss , 200 HP, 200 Phys. Armor, 200 Mag. Armor

== Turn 1 ==
dawrf 1 use cripple's skill, deal 50 Phys. Dmg
=> Slime 200 HP ( 150 PA / 200 MA ), status : physical armor weakend 1Turn (next cc apply)
... some other useless ally/ennemy actions ...
dawrf 2 use ram, deal 50 P. Dmg
=> Slime 200 HP ( 100 Pa / 200 MA ), status : take down 1Turn , Take down immunity 2Turns
Slime, take down recover, status : Take down immunity 1T
... meanwhile nearby ...
== Turn 2 ==
dawrf 1 use ram, deal 40 Phys. Dmg
=> Slime 200 HP ( 60 PA / 200 MA ), status : Take down immunity 1T (stop spamming, use some variety)
...
dawrf 2 use battle stomp, deal 50 P. Dmg
=> Slime 200 HP ( 10 Pa / 200 MA ), status : physical armor weakend 1T , Take down immunity 1T
Slime, recovering, status : -
Mage 1 use hail storm, 100 M Dmg
=> Slime 200 HP ( 10 Pa / 100 MA ), status : magical armor weakend 1T
...
== Turn 3 ==
dawrf 1 use battle stomp, deal 40 Phys. Dmg
=> Slime 170 HP ( 0 PA / 100 MA ), status : take down 1T (no more armor), Take down immunity 2T, magical armor weakend 1T
...
dawrf 2 use blinding light, deal 20 M Dmg
=> Slime 170 HP ( 0 Pa / 80 MA ), status : take down 1T , blind 1T, Take down immunity 2T, blind immunity 2T
Slime, do something, status : Take down immunity 1T, blind immunity T
...
== Turn ... ==

possible decision :
* no armor, no imunity, yes
* immunity, gotta find soomething else, not now
* armor, other cc source, i will risk myself wasting some cc, maybe
* armor weakened, no immunity, yes
* other situation, seems a bad idea, no
Better than a binary decision.

my opinion about this :
* less frustration from CC chain for computer (yeah, AI has feeling too, or maybe futur arena players ?)
* less frustration from faillure, well i just planned bad, i need to think about it
* better satisfaction from combo success.
* with high Hp and some buff/equipement immunity. no armor doesn't mean death, just hard time.

edit : @roamer
"take down 1T", T for Turn, it was obvious in my head :x

No no. Stabbey was talking about dmg split on weapons - to deal both m and p dmg. Absorbtion was on the image.

Sorry, i didnt got... what does 1T, 2T means? TIERs of CC power?

T for Turn, sorry it was obvious in my head

"Vazgar" 's brother called "Vazgor" is in the fight too.
Vazgor, 200 HP ( 300 P. Armor / 100 M. Armor )
Splitting ratio will be 75%/25%
btw, saying :
splitting damage, 75% to armor and 25% to HP
armor absorb 75% damage, rest goes to HP
seems the same, since i'm bad in english, maybe i don't get the nuance

Party composition is 4 ranger
You need 666 damage if you use physical damage only
maybe you can prevent the virtual HP boost by usgin penetrating attack.

Jumping to conclusion with a shorcut :

you can avoid splitting damage to the remaining armor by using penetrating damage on regular ennemy.
and on boss, you allready deal magical damage at the same time if you have a mix party.
the only reason you could deal HIGH damage to magical armor using physical damage lie in the lack of magical damage output and the overpowered physical damage.
most of the time, it will be just a hindrance to people focusing with only physical or magical.
It will become a nerfed to people deciding to play full physical damage.

What ever it is, taunt bounce off armor is the most infamous thing devs team has done.

Taunt bounce off armor LOL.

You are conflating general uncertainty in battle with crowd control. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all completely uncertain elements be removed.

In addition, a lot of what you list can be taken into account and mitigated.
- Damage ranges and critical chances provide a minimum value you need to hit. If your minimum attack power is above that, they you're likely to land it. If it's below and you get a high roll, that's a bonus
- You can put nails on your boots to prevent slipping, or move short amounts at a time, instead of trying to run all the way.
- There are skills to clear surfaces and magic armor to deal with limited exposure to them.
- Warrior spells and teleports are more to do with tactics, not crowd control
- the idea to add 5-50% chance of CC to every weapon is a recipe for utter chaos, not tactics. It's a very bad idea.
- What the hell is random autoteleportation, and what does it have to do with RNG for CC?
- There are skills and magic armor to deal with fogs.
- oil is not unpredictable, if you walk into it, it's almost always from sloppy planning and execution.

So I don't agree that those things mean that there's already random CC. Generally, its either the result of poor tactics from a player or smart tactics from an enemy (or the other way around if an enemy is affected).




Now I understand what you mean. I haven't played Path of Exile in years, and it's an action RPG. I haven't played Pillars of Eternity at all.




No, actually I was talking about the split happening on the target side. I wasn't suggesting that every weapon get part of its damage changed to elemental damage.

I was suggesting that instead of now, where Physical Armor is completely unaffected by magical damage, and Magical armor is completely unaffected by physical damage, instead they are partially affected by damage of the opposite type.

Armor still absorbs damage going towards HP, until it is broken, at which point health starts being damaged, at the same ratio as the attack damages armor. If an attack does 100 Physical damage on a target with 200 PA and 0 MA, the attack does 75 damage to the armor (125 PA remaining) and 25 damage to health. If the attack does a Physical CC it will not land.

U could mitigate many things even in RNG CC system.

Critical have huge influence on planning - i can shred full armor with crit or leave half or less w/o crit. So i could not plan my next CC.

Enemies cant get nails
Rain is unpredictable - cos of random water pools appearence - as a result shock too.

And all others things in my list are not only about player side RNG or CC RNG but about all that could not be planned. Cos not only RNG CC is a problem for some prayers - but unplanable and unpredictable moments.

so the game is already fully unpredictable and I dont believe that current system gives u possibility of 100% planning of ur turns... but ... u are still fighting for non RNG CC... (RNG CC its just few% of all unpredicteble moments in current game)



weapon could have like 5-50% chance of some CC

No, because you cannot count on a critical hit happening, the plan assumes that the hit will NOT be critical and land a CC. That is the opposite of not being able to plan.




I think you're constructing a strawman argument, making these fictional players who are really upset that anything at all they failed to see and plan for or anything they didn't want is bad and must be removed. That is ridiculous, and I don't think those players actually exist to any notable degree.

Then you are pretending that wanting one element - crowd control and/or status effects to be fairly reliably predictable is no different than wanting every single potentially unpredictable element removed.

I am not going to give any credibility to that strawman argument.




You claim that the game is "already fully unpredictable", and yet you also claim that adding in even MORE unpredictability "increases tactics"? That doesn't make sense.

I could probably add in a "Wild Magic" spell, which delivers a random effect to all targets in an AoE, controlled by a dice roll, but that wouldn't make the game any more tactical or make planning more effective.




Oh I think maybe I misinterpreted what you were saying. Okay, now that I think about it, there are weapons which have chances to land status effects in the game. However, those are more like bonus effects, they are not things you can plan around. They also only apply once the relevant armor is gone.

The reason I forgot about those is because I actually don't even take those effects into consideration at all when deciding what weapon to use. I ignore them. Because they have random chances to apply and are only useful once the armor is gone anyway. I cannot count on those effects triggering, so I disregard them.

Stabbey

Anyway. I will not answer everything u said, cos wanna brake that infinite circle... but
Some players, as they said here, dont want RNG CC - they want to be able to plan everything
But the game is already have tons of unpredictable moments
So whats the point?
That is why adding RNG to CC will have no big effect, but it could solve some promblems that opposite side of players (like me and others on this thread) see.

I think I've said all there is to say on this as well.

Stabbey

With my bad english i didnt got it. But, i think, answer is in my previous msg.