Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
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There is a huge difference between faithfully creating a D&D game versus faithfully creating a TT game, D&D or otherwise. Saying that for the game to be true to D&D it has to be TB is a false and disingenuous claim because the very existanse of BG1, BG2, IwD1, IwD2, NwN1, NwN2 prove beyond any doubt that you can make a faithful D&D game, regardless of edition, with RTwP.

Now, if the claim is that for the game to be a faithful representation of TT gaming it needs to be TB, yes I agree. But I counter that argument by saying if you want to play a TT game go and play a TT game! Larian has been tasked with making a roleplaying VIDEO game, NOT a goddam TT simulator, and especially not taking a cherished classic RPG franchise like BG and turning it into a piece-of-shit TT simulator. I don't want a TT simulator. I want an RPG video game that is liberated from the annoying and aggravating shackles of TT gaming.

Lastly, yes, all you D:OS fans can talk all you want about how "awesome" Larian is, and all you want about Larian's "creativity." But none of that has any resonance with me at all. I consider the D:OS games to be complete shit. I don't even agree that they qualify as true RPGs. And all the so-called "innovative" elements in those games are trite, superficial crap to me. So for me, it is incumbent upon Larian to prove to me they know what they're doing in making BG3 'cause I have not drunk the Larian Kool-Aid.

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Baldurs gate is DnD, Avernus is Dnd, the game has dnd written on it. I dont think youre getting the point cause youre trying to quote people on purpose to make this into a community war when multiple have stated that they want something new or they dont care what the format is. they already stated that their goal is to apply dnd 5e to a video game, i.e. NOT rtwp because thats not their goal.

No one is hijacking a franchise you must be delusional because no one on these forums or anyone else is getting paid to make bg3 besides larian and they havent taken any opinions from gamers. So youre statement is unfounded. Youre looking to lash out at people and blame other gamers for ruining something we arent involved in even making and just found out about the past year......-_____-

Btw do you honestly think google would promote a rtwp game on a debut on stadia????? Youve got to be mental. Google knows where to stick its cash and its not personal opinions. Again you should address the things i said instead of trying your hardest to make it into some community battle where gamers are ruining a franchise when hell no one even seen any footage yet. We dont even have a gameplay trailer yet and your flipping of for no reason....

Ive stated as well as others that we want a dnd5e game thats like TT, some of us dont care what the format is others of us do. But if larian is making it like tabletop and players like me who play TT which btw baldurs gate is from the TT AND NOT SEPARATE FROM DnD want a game thats like tt. I dont care how the make that as long as it has the 5e rulings which unfortunately cannot be accomplished with what your fighting ppl over.

Stop trying to make it a war, im part of ALL rpgs whether they have been rtwp or tb, i also love rts like wc3 and sc series. No one is killing a franchise because the gamers arent involved in making the game nor has anyone seen the game. No one is even being pandered to either no one even knew what divinity was ppl played and liked it and those that didnt just didnt.

I might add more sales does not mean a better product, many rpg i played had great sales but people didnt like them. We just have to hope they dont mess up mages like they did dos2, lol


Last edited by Laith; 28/08/19 11:45 PM.
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You should stop trying to speak for everyone here, i love adnd1e all the way to 5e, and i also love bg2(hail sarevok) i also loved, ToT, ToEE, POE, etc.... im a fan of all these, but i also like dos as well so does that mean im here to ruin youre franchise because i like 5e rules in a genre that has become linear? No because theres no Larian/Wotc poll asking people if they want tb or rtwp.

Like its obvious you people came here just to complain cause if you dont like larian or dos games then theres no reason for you to be here. So am i not allowed to like baldurs gate and dos? Can i not be a fan of multiple TT and videogames? Am i not allowed to like multiple studios and formats? Like seriously is no one allowed to like dos just because you guys are in disagreement??

Btw theres been many examples of this mechanic vs mechanicand why things would or wouldnt work, but instead of acknowledging that you just bring things that arent relevant or say "you can have 5e rules with rtwp" like i know you guys dont even know the rules of 5e much less previous editions and most dont even know baldurs is part of dnd canon and that bg1-2 was not intended to be made as a TT video game but a video game with TT elements. HUGE differences.

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Originally Posted by Laith
People are not going to build games for nostalgic reasons just to make a quick buck or to please just one small niche community.

Originally Posted by Laith
I dont think youre getting the point cause youre trying to quote people on purpose to make this into a community war

All I see is you being the instigator of this "war", trying to pin the blame on someone else. Or did you already forget what you yourself have said?

Anyway, I think one of the reasons for theses clashes is the Larian developers don't realise what it is they have picked up.
This Baldur's Gate fanbase has some crazy dedication to it, for example:
http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/
And
https://www.gibberlings3.net/
These people have developed mods for that BG2 game, and have continued to do so for longer than a decade after that game launched.
The last batches of these mods were released FOURTEEN years after the launch of the game.

That's the heritage Larian has picked up. And along the journey you're going to bump into a lot of people who loved these games for what they were.

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You only quote things i say and accuse me of xyz but people can read for themselves. You cant address anything im saying because you are on these forums to vent your disagreement. You dont like larian which totally fine but not discussing mechanics and why they would or wouldnt work and instead choosing to blame players for things their not involved in the making of as if theres a wotc poll is ridiculous. And the fact youre accusing others and now me this when i clearly have stated the opposite just shows your own mindset. Infiltrator made a post on paage 8. Re read it. Thats all the explanation anyone would need for why google and wotc wouldnt want to implement something that i myself and you have played many times over. Its pretty obvious youre stance and purpose of being on these boards. And thanks for quoting me that way others can just see that youre desperately trying to make it as if im apart of some tb community that doesnt exist even though i love and and have played all rpgs of many different styles.

Last edited by Laith; 28/08/19 11:59 PM.
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Originally Posted by Laith
you are on these forums to vent your disagreement. You dont like larian

Actually I have proof right here I came to this forum to help the developers: http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=654805#Post654805 <- My post number 1 in this forum.
So you're wrong about that one, but thanks for judging me with prejudice.

Anyway, my quotes of you proves you are the one trying to instigate war and hostility.

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You forget im a bg fan myself, not to mention i play the tt 1e to 5e whixh not even modders even play. But just because there are fans does not mean the present modern day has to bend to that. What i would say is to keep mpdding and keep playing BUT guess what. Mike who is the owner of dnd is a HUGE bg fan and played it non stop and guess what he still chose larian. So if you going to point fingers or be upset Dnd is his baby that means if he wants larian he gets larian despite me or you and what fans want. Wait til you see the game before pointing fingers and hating and accusing others of "ruining a franchise". Surely a small community that u say exist cant ruin a whole franchise even tho you know we didnt get a poll or have even seen the game yet. smirk

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Youre not helping by that post or any of the things youve said like saying larian shouldnt have the liscence to bg3 because you think they arent being constructive. You actually think through all those posts youre helping? Go back and read your own posts bro

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Laith You can't be that big of a fan if you don't care about the original gameplay foundation being ripped to shreds and replaced by something else.
All you care about is turn-based table top.
You're more of a D&D fan than a BG fan.

Originally Posted by Laith
Youre not helping by that post or any of the things youve said like saying larian shouldnt have the liscence to bg3 because you think

I have the right to hold those opinions.
If the developer is so constrained by resources and funds that they are forced to recycle assets and tools of their previous projects instead of developing new tools for BG3, then they might not be the right developer for this mission.
It's an objective stance one can have.
You don't have the resources => Go develop something else

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Having met Larian a few times, and talked with them as well as D&D devs- I am excited Larian is at the helm.
BG 1 and 2 were great stories for their time, and okay mechanically.

Larian was allowed to develop BG3 due to the rich worlds they created in Original Sin 1 and 2.

The amount of vitriol in the thread from a handful of very vocal people is amazing.

I look forward to a turn based, 5e ruleset game.

Based on their past successes, and excellent ongoing sales of DDOS2, it'll be a guaranteed hit.

You can wax poetic about rtwp (I do hope they have a option for that for those that crave it)- but
It was never my favourite part of the originals.

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Originally Posted by AlchemicalBehold
Having met Larian a few times, and talked with them as well as D&D devs- I am excited Larian is at the helm.
BG 1 and 2 were great stories for their time, and okay mechanically.

Larian was allowed to develop BG3 due to the rich worlds they created in Original Sin 1 and 2.

The amount of vitriol in the thread from a handful of very vocal people is amazing.

I look forward to a turn based, 5e ruleset game.

Based on their past successes, and excellent ongoing sales of DDOS2, it'll be a guaranteed hit.

You can wax poetic about rtwp (I do hope they have a option for that for those that crave it)- but
It was never my favourite part of the originals.


Me as well.

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I think Larian should make BG3 a thrid Person Action RPG I think we can all agree on that. smirk

Last edited by Hawke; 29/08/19 10:17 AM.
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I was going to post something that would have gotten me banned here.

You dont need to like every little detail of a game in order to be a fan.
I like games in which the core mechanic was quite frankly terrible. Morrowind is still my favorite RPG, and holy crap was its combat awfull.
Likewise i like infinity engine games, but RTWP and the controll scheme were the worst part about these games. Even if i like Icewind dale the most, which is arguably nothign but combat.

And the idea that Larian is somehow recycling...
Like dude, thats literaly their most expensive project yet, you realy think they are recycling
And Clockwork you have the right to hold any opinion, but i have the right to laugh at you for it.

As for action RPG.
man, if this turns out to be Western Dragons Dogma with multiplayer, then i think ill sink so many hours into this game that somenes gonna have to pry me from my chair, and my friends too while theyre at it.

Last edited by Sordak; 29/08/19 10:46 AM.
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I guess I'm a fan of RTwP despite its flaws. While I've been thoroughly enjoying Divinity: Original Sin (can't comment on the sequel as it's not in my library yet) I can't help but notice how much of the time spent in-game is directly attributable to taking turns in combat. BG3 is billed as a 100-hour adventure but I sincerely hope this does not mean that over 90% of those 100 hours will boil down to combat. If D:OS weren't turn-based, it would probably take half as long to beat it. Nevertheless, I'm open to turn-based combat if it is done in a way that staves off tedium and boredom. Take Battle Chasers: Nightwar for example. It's a JRPG/WRPG crossover that was a huge blast for me when I played it. Combat wasn't used as filler and the comic book visuals kept things from becoming a bore.

If Larian ultimately chooses TB over RTwP I humbly suggest that they throw lots of different camera angles into the mix, come up with a variety of quirky and vivid character battle animations, write lots and lots of banter, taunts etc. and finally provide us with a plethora of abilities, buffs and modifiers that make every monster encounter as unique as humanly possible. Also, please no cutting corners on the soundtrack, I'm fairly certain no one would appreciate hearing the same battle theme looping over and over again throughout the entire game.

Last edited by korotama; 29/08/19 11:01 AM. Reason: spacing
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Nowhere in the forum rules does it say that you have to be a D:OS fan or a Larian sycophant to be on this forum. In fact, to my way of seeing things, it is exactly people like me that Larian should be listening to and trying to engage in a conversation if they are sincere in wanting to become better at what they do. So until a mod tells me I can't criticize the D:OS games in this forum, I will continue to do so.

The D:OS games had weak stories and silly quests, superficial characters, and simplistic munchkin-y character development. The writing overall was atrocious. The world was trite and boring, and largely empty of anything worth exploring. The artwork was cartoonish. The so-called humor was asinine and not humerous at all. The crafting system was a painful chore. Combat was a tedious, repetitive slog-fest that took forever and involved merely loading up all your characters with the same set of 3-4 spells and then spamming those spells. As such, the supposedly 100 hours game actually only had about 30 hours of content and the rest of the "100 hours" was suffering through the stupid combat. Furthermore, the vaunted "environmental reactivity" merely involved oil barrels and water puddles very conveniently available in every battle and very conveniently positioned exactly where you want them just so you could squeal and clap your hands with delight at the big boom! Like a child.

So yes, if this is what I'm going to get packaged as a Baldur's Gate game, and since my take on the D:OS games is the only frame of reference I have for what Larian is capable of or likes to do with its games, then as a passionate Baldur's Gate fan who considers those games to be like a hundred times better than the D:OS games I have every right--and justification--to be really angry about my cherished franchise being taken over and turned into a joke.

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Originally Posted by _Vic_
Oh, I can think creatively many ways to do it, but I am afraid the developers do not have that luxury, having time and budget constraints, so I am afraid they simply do not use this fun features.

Originally Posted by Sordak
And the idea that Larian is somehow recycling...
Like dude, thats literaly their most expensive project yet, you realy think they are recycling
And Clockwork you have the right to hold any opinion, but i have the right to laugh at you for it.

It was _Vic_ who suggested Larian might not have the resources to implement D&D 5E into real-time. That's what prompted me to argue they might be the wrong studio for this project.

If your camp could make up its mind, I would be happy about that.

Originally Posted by Sordak
Even if i like Icewind dale the most, which is arguably nothign but combat.

Well this just proves my previous point, some of you guys don't even hold BG as your favourite in the genre, so it's really no wonder you don't mind it being mangled to death.
It's important that we understand each other.
I understand that you're not that big of a fan of BG.
And I want you to understand that the other side absolutely revere the Baldur's Gate series.

When we understand each other we've progressed 1 step further.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Nowhere in the forum rules does it say that you have to be a D:OS fan or a Larian sycophant to be on this forum. In fact, to my way of seeing things, it is exactly people like me that Larian should be listening to and trying to engage in a conversation if they are sincere in wanting to become better at what they do. So until a mod tells me I can't criticize the D:OS games in this forum, I will continue to do so.

Criticise all you want. There aren't many rules beyond stuff that's actually illegal, though I may intervene if it gets personal or excessively disruptive. Beyond that, it's up to forum members as to whether or not they think a particular approach is going to win people over.


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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Nowhere in the forum rules does it say that you have to be a D:OS fan or a Larian sycophant to be on this forum. In fact, to my way of seeing things, it is exactly people like me that Larian should be listening to and trying to engage in a conversation if they are sincere in wanting to become better at what they do. So until a mod tells me I can't criticize the D:OS games in this forum, I will continue to do so.

Criticise all you want. There aren't many rules beyond stuff that's actually illegal, though I may intervene if it gets personal or excessively disruptive. Beyond that, it's up to forum members as to whether or not they think a particular approach is going to win people over.


The cultural libertarian approach to moderating, I like it.

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Originally Posted by Clockwork
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Oh, I can think creatively many ways to do it, but I am afraid the developers do not have that luxury, having time and budget constraints, so I am afraid they simply do not use this fun features.

Originally Posted by Sordak
And the idea that Larian is somehow recycling...
Like dude, thats literaly their most expensive project yet, you realy think they are recycling
And Clockwork you have the right to hold any opinion, but i have the right to laugh at you for it.

It was _Vic_ who suggested Larian might not have the resources to implement D&D 5E into real-time. That's what prompted me to argue that are the wrong studio for this project.

If your camp could make up its mind, I would be happy about that.

Originally Posted by Sordak
Even if i like Icewind dale the most, which is arguably nothign but combat.

Well this just proves my previous point, some of you guys don't even hold BG as your favourite in the genre, so it's really no wonder why you don't mind it being mangl's important that we understand each other.
I understand that you're not that big of a fan of BG.
And I want you to understand that the other side absolutely revere the Baldur's Gate series.

When we understand each other we've progressed 1 step further.


It's not a size issue, Larian studios has over 300 people working on this game. No it's that why do RTwP when turn based is alot easier to do with 5e and you know you will have alarge market for it based on their last two smashing successes of games. Why do things the hard way for a minority of people.

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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
No it's that why do RTwP when turn based is alot easier to do with 5e and you know you will have alarge market for it based on their last two smashing successes of games. Why do things the hard way for a minority of people.

Because the game sales say the real-time fans are actually the majority, while it is you turn-based guys who are the minority.

It's a great question for yourself, Larian has absolutely no reason to support you, the minority.

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