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Originally Posted by Try2Handing
Originally Posted by Hawke
So let me get this straight you belive that Divinity Original Sin 2 which sold more than 2.5 million copies would have sold more than 5million with an optional RTWP mode? Because I really doubt that.

Not that I'm particularly invested in the discussion or interested in an argument of any sort, but I'm just pointing out that there's a difference there. DOS2 is Larian's own thing, they could do whatever they wanted to, going with whatever formulas or systems they came up with. Other than the core things that worked well in DOS, they didn't have to worry too much about sticking with anything specific. On the contrary, BG3 is "supposedly" the successor of a classic series. There are veterans and fans, and hell, there are fanatics too, of the original games who *expect*, *want*, and *demand* certain things from this game. It's only to be expected that a number of players will be turned off if certain aspects diverge too far from those in the original games.


It's uses the same basic location as BG1, but other then that it's not really a sequel, the sooner people accept it and judge it for what it really is, Baldur's Gate 5e, the sooner we can move on.

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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic


It's using the same basic location as BG1, but other than that it's not really a sequel. The sooner people accept that and judge it for what it really is, Baldur's Gate 5e, the sooner we can move on.


NWN2 wasn't a 'sequel' per se either. Same with D:OS 2 wasn't really a 'sequel'

Last edited by 0Muttley0; 22/09/19 01:13 PM.

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Yeah and Final Fantasy XV is the fourteenth sequel to Final Fantasy crazy

They called it Baldurs Gate because fewer people would care if it was called Dungeon's and Dragons: Illithid uprising. It's the oldest trick to make your game more interesting by connecting it to an IP people remember. People who expect a sequel to Baldurs Gate should be prepared for massive disappointment.

Last edited by Hawke; 22/09/19 03:19 PM.
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Originally Posted by Hawke
Yeah and Final Fantasy XV is the fourteenth sequel to Final Fantasy crazy

They called it Baldurs Gate because fewer people would care if it was called Dungeon's and Dragons: Illithid uprising. It's the oldest trick to make your game more interesting by connecting it to an IP people remember. People who expect a sequel to Baldurs Gate should be prepared for massive disappointment.


I agree. One thing in common in all the interviews about bg is that they distanced themselves from the classic BG trilogy. They do not even name one game.

I think they could do a very good game, but I do not think the game will be a continuation in story, mechanics, etc... of the previous games.

Last edited by _Vic_; 22/09/19 04:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by _Vic_
Originally Posted by Hawke
Yeah and Final Fantasy XV is the fourteenth sequel to Final Fantasy crazy

They called it Baldurs Gate because fewer people would care if it was called Dungeon's and Dragons: Illithid uprising. It's the oldest trick to make your game more interesting by connecting it to an IP people remember. People who expect a sequel to Baldurs Gate should be prepared for massive disappointment.


I agree. One thing in common in all the interviews about bg is that they distanced themselves from the classic BG trilogy. They do not even name one game.

I think they could do a very good game, but I do not think the game will be a continuation in story, mechanics, etc... of the previous games.


Agreed, I mean at the very least we know the mechanics are different, 5e instead of 2e.

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Man this message-board is lucky to have so many members who, without a SECOND of actual gameplay footage or any SPECIFIC INFO about actual gameplay or combat, are so sure about how disappointing and unworthy the game will be to other people and how glorious and enjoyable it will be to them.

So how's it work? Do we have to take a test to get in, or can we just convert at the community center?

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Yeah, and just like the last time so too here you are misrepresenting what I am saying. I never said anything about it being partially one and the other. I am talking about a system that takes one OR the other and then makes some technology-based changes to it to make it more palatable to those who don't like that type of system. In Realms Beyond, for example, the devs have talked about having an option to completely skip over the animations for the enemy and even for your party as a way of speeding things up. They have also said you can set up AI profiles for your party members and then have the AI auto-resolve combats for you, a feature I intend to use a lot. But the feature I am thinking of that Larian could potentially use, in a TB system, is to allow me to input the actions for all of my party members all at once and then have the AI resolve everything simultaneously. This way I won't have to suffer through the usual tedium and irritation of a sequence of turn-taking.


How did I misrepresent what you said when you just now clarified what you said, and it still doesn't make any sense?

I don't care how much you tweak it or how little player input responsibility there is, if you program the game so when enemies are on screen (combat mode begins) and everything stops and waits for input, IT'S NOT RTWP.

Also, AI profiles were in the previous titles. They worked fine in DnD 2.0, 3.0, 3.5. There's no reason they can't work again. 5.0 doesn't have some mandatory question and answer mode they have to replicate, does it? I didn't think so.

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Originally Posted by Artagel
Man this message-board is lucky to have so many members who, without a SECOND of actual gameplay footage or any SPECIFIC INFO about actual gameplay or combat, are so sure about how disappointing and unworthy the game will be to other people and how glorious and enjoyable it will be to them.

So how's it work? Do we have to take a test to get in, or can we just convert at the community center?


I have played all of the 6 Divinity games from Larian and they were all good so I simply don't believe Larian is even capable of making a bad game not as long as Swen is with them at least.

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I think I'm pretty much done with RtwP unless they build the best AI/Scripting system I've ever seen and it best be easy to use with predictable outcomes. PoeT2 has a lot of options there, but so much of it doesn't work out like you want it to, and with that fail I'm just tired of the janky stop/start action. Theoretically I can see liking it but the AI and controls have to be there. I'd say so far the best attempt at this was Dragon Age 2, which was good and easy to use, to the point I rarely paused, imo that is how the system should be, good enough to play real-time always or almost always with very few needed pauses.

Last edited by Horrorscope; 24/09/19 02:09 PM.
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I found the combat in DA2 fun, a little repetitive but well made, but I think there are better RTWP games. In NWN-NWN2, for instance, you can sequence actions in a queue ( like spells or skills) and issue orders to your characters instead of making several pauses. Very useful for spellcasters and thieves.

And about good IA... well, I usually prefer to play the game, not watch the IA fighting, but I know many people do not like micromanage the party. Unless the game is full of trash mobs and repetitive encounters I usually prefer to handle the party myself. If you have too many fights that you won using auto-fight without issuing an order like in phone games I tend to get bored. I liked that in BG2 or Drakensang games you have to issue orders even in most random encounters.

Last edited by _Vic_; 24/09/19 02:53 PM.
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It makes no sense to me at all that people say pausing in RTwP is jarring/a pain etc. and yet somehow the 'pausing' in TB combat is fine.

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Because the game pauses automatically for you, you do not have to pause yourself >XDD

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Originally Posted by Horrorscope
I think I'm pretty much done with RtwP unless they build the best AI/Scripting system I've ever seen and it best be easy to use with predictable outcomes. PoeT2 has a lot of options there, but so much of it doesn't work out like you want it to, and with that fail I'm just tired of the janky stop/start action. Theoretically I can see liking it but the AI and controls have to be there. I'd say so far the best attempt at this was Dragon Age 2, which was good and easy to use, to the point I rarely paused, imo that is how the system should be, good enough to play real-time always or almost always with very few needed pauses.


For a triple A RPG in 2019 that's not too much to ask. Or even expect.

We'll see....

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Originally Posted by _Vic_
I found the combat in DA2 fun, a little repetitive but well made, but I think there are better RTWP games. In NWN-NWN2, for instance, you can sequence actions in a queue ( like spells or skills) and issue orders to your characters instead of making several pauses. Very useful for spellcasters and thieves.

And about good IA... well, I usually prefer to play the game, not watch the IA fighting, but I know many people do not like micromanage the party. Unless the game is full of trash mobs and repetitive encounters I usually prefer to handle the party myself. If you have too many fights that you won using auto-fight without issuing an order like in phone games I tend to get bored. I liked that in BG2 or Drakensang games you have to issue orders even in most random encounters.


Yep we all have our likes, but the moment I'm pausing a lot, I just want TB then. You say you would get bored and who I'm I to argue what you will or won't get bored of, but I see a meta where ones scripts/orders are carried out to your command and you tweak them if needed. I want my non-controlled characters to do their thing smartly, which I find that to be the key wording vs basic/stupid things they typically do left unattended while I'm controlling another, aka how Dragon Age's work mostly, DA2 more specifically. Trying to control too many characters with the status quo I think I'm just past that now, it feels like a UI/AI fail.

Last edited by Horrorscope; 24/09/19 10:57 PM.
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
It makes no sense to me at all that people say pausing in RTwP is jarring/a pain etc. and yet somehow the 'pausing' in TB combat is fine.


When you have a 100% TB game the flow remains the same, aka non-jaring. When you have both, to me they are both masters of neither, aka janky. Simple, next.

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Originally Posted by Horrorscope
When you have a 100% TB game the flow remains the same, aka non-jaring. When you have both, to me they are both masters of neither, aka janky. Simple, next.

That's kind of a false equiv. 100% RTwP isn't 100% real time... because there's pausing.

What's jarring is knowing every fight no matter how big or small will always be paused and never left up to the player. Some would say a deal breaker...

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Most RTwP* seems to give me control of the pause button and how often I use it, if at all. Currently playing Greedfall which uses the same system and it works well enough. The only real problem is me: I'm hasty, impatient and kinda rubbish at combat in whatever form it's presented.

Edit:

* that I've encountered, I mean.

Last edited by vometia; 25/09/19 03:52 AM.

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Originally Posted by vometia
Most RTwP* seems to give me control of the pause button and how often I use it, if at all. Currently playing Greedfall which uses the same system and it works well enough. The only real problem is me: I'm hasty, impatient and kinda rubbish at combat in whatever form it's presented.

Edit:

* that I've encountered, I mean.

Yes exactly. In RTwP I as the player have full control over when and how often I want to pause, whereas in TB the game is forcibly pausing the game for me out of my control. I cannot even begin to wrap my head around why anyone would want to cede this control of their game to the game system.
But apparently choosing to pause the game yourself is a problem, but the game forcibly pausing even if you don't want it to do so is wonderful.

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Originally Posted by vometia
Most RTwP* seems to give me control of the pause button and how often I use it, if at all. Currently playing Greedfall which uses the same system and it works well enough. The only real problem is me: I'm hasty, impatient and kinda rubbish at combat in whatever form it's presented.

Edit:

* that I've encountered, I mean.

Is that only a single controllable character?

I know there are people saying there is a chance BG3 will look like that (how are the graphics?), an ARPG... but I have doubts that any studio would opt for such a drastic departure from the previous games.

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Originally Posted by Artagel
Is that only a single controllable character?

I know there are people saying there is a chance BG3 will look like that (how are the graphics?), an ARPG... but I have doubts that any studio would opt for such a drastic departure from the previous games.

It is, but Dragon Age: Oranges and the Mass Effects (I think... it's been a while) worked in the same way with multiple party members. Sometimes it was fun in Oranges to guide my party around by controlling Dave, my imaginatively-named mabari.

As for departures, Larian have already done that extensively with the Divinity series, which has gone from fixed-perspective isometric real-time to third-person real-time to tactical to variable perspective isometric turn-based, so I certainly won't be making any bets.


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