Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Gameplay impressions

Uhm, to be fair the name Baldur´s gate is the name of a city in a setting of the game D&D created by Wizards of the Coast, a tabletop game created in 1974, with 40 years of history and 5-7 different editions, not only the name of two games. And they let Larian get the license to create a game after refusing several game studios all over the years, so they have all the right to call the game Baldur´s Gate 3 or whatever they want.

Sven Vincke, Mike Myers and Adam Smith were really forthright since the first interview, months ago, stating that they want to make a D&D5e game, using an improved version of the game engine of DOS; not based in the first games. Sven didn´t even know the endings of the first game when they asked him in an interview; Mike Mearl said repeatedly that the origins of the game will be in the D&D adventures Murder in BG and Descent into Avernus (I´m pretty sure that they leaked the news of the upcoming BG3 game the past summer to attract public attention and exposition for Stadia and the Adventure DiA that was published in September of the last year) so I wasn´t surprised about the gameplay.

It was never meant to be. They told us that from the start.

Precisely, there are 2 games coming out if you want to "feel" nostalgic.

1. Realms beyond ashes of the fallen

2. Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous

Although there not 5th edition rule set they should make up for it.

Yeah I backed them. I have high hopes on those Ù©(^á´—^)Û¶


And don't forget Solasta, crown of the magister, also based in 5e

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1096530/Solasta_Crown_of_the_Magister/

Mixed feelings, The CGI intro trailer was fantastic, it totally caught that old bioware magic. The dialog was great and VO for the characters were great, I love that there was a lot of options, something missing in most modern dialog. Character models looked good close up and loved we had a camp option to talk, interact with our party members. With that said, I have to agree with what everyone is saying about the visuals, it feels like a DOS game instead of a BG game, it does not even match the feeling the CGI gave off. I can understand wanting to reuse assets, but it really is jarring how much the game just looks like a reskinned DOS game. Changing the UI at the miniumum would probably help a lot. It is also weird that one advantage of DOS 2 where you could pick origin characters and change their class to suit our play style is not an option here where the origin characters are fixed classes. I wanted to play the vampire spawn, but wanted to be a wizard first play through, guess I will have to play someone else.

My worries:

Towns and cities, I hope we can go to cities and cities they will actually be pretty big (like shown in the CGI) so we have a lot to explore/do and not just be basically towns.

Summoning: Summoning in DOS 2 sucked. You got only one summons in DOS, I REALLY hope that we have summoning, we get cool summons (especially hope we can be necromancers and necromacer summons), and we can summon MULTIPLE things.


This probably sounded more negative than intended, but I did overall enjoy what I saw.

No, even this is not accurate. The game is not set in the Forgotten Realms at all. It is set in Rivellon with Forgotten Realms names and terminology just slapped on to it.

o.O Summoning in DoS2 sucked?

Honestly, I stopped playing summoners in Dos2 because the Incarnate and skeletal spider at lvl 10 summoning just tear through the enemy lines like they were made of cheese and you could even summon a totem per turn to make it more overboard. I do not know if you had the same problem but I would not say summoning suck. On the contrary, it was too good. It is the only skill school that you do not need anything else, you just go summoning skills all the way.


Unless you have hidden access to the script of the game that no one else in the forum saw, in the cinematic, I saw Ilithids, a spelljammer, a guy with the uniform of the flaming fist, intellect devourers, githzyankis riding dragons and plenty of other D&D races including vampires, an attempt to a ceremorphosis, several references in the dialogues about D&D themes and several banners of the houses of the sword coast in the ruins.

That does not really look like Rivellon at all.

if the attack of opportunity thing is true, thatd be a bummer.
Especialy since the issue could simply be solved with counterspell beeing a readied action

Or just giving a real time button promt, i still dont understand why real time elements in turn based games are verboten.
Basically the reason why MTG video games are unplayably slow

Yeah, that would be a bummer if they finally do not implement reactions like shield, counterspell, cutting words, etc. Sven said that they currently only have AoO as reactions, but they are trying to make the others come true. Let´s cross fingers.

well, then let me be the first to call bullshit on that one.

5e is a bland enaugh system as it is, Reactions are one of the few good holdovers from 4e and they should be in.
the lack of reactions actually annoyed me in OS2.

Why not just make em like overwatch in xcom

Yes, key words there being "in the cinematic." Sure. Very nice movie to try and win people over. The in-game look and feel are what truly matter though. And that is totally Rivellon.

I know about TB games like The last remnant or Mordheim where you had several reactions that you can use in the enemy´s turn so It is possible. Also desirable.

Mordheim is even a MP game too, so that is not an excuse.

If I remember correctly in the dialogues with the NPCs there are several references. Shadowheart fully explains you the ceremorphosis a thing that only exist in D&D, The wizard makes reference to several spells, not to source and sorcerers. You actually fight intellect devourers. The MC is a half-vampire or something like that, and he has some dialogue choices and a strange dream in the camp, and there are no Vampires in any game of Divinity nor in the entire game series (There are weresheeps, tho XD ). There is a source skill called Source vampirism, but it is not the same.
As I said, nothing in that screams Rivellon.

If you say that the graphic design is similar, I agree, both use the same engine. But the little we watched in the gameplay does not use any Rivellon lore reference that I know of and plenty of references to a Sword coast setting.

Sorry if some area really tired of reading the same things, but I need lodge my thoughts (wrong as I'm sure many will think they are...) somewhere..

Personally, I was disappointed in the presentation of the game so far. Some things I am sure shall be worked on so aren't set in stone at this stage. Other things we simply don't know enough about to make solid judgements on. Some things I don't think will change & I guess I'll have to live with.

1st is 4-man (at least in single player) - I think this was confirmed, but happy to be wrong! I love complex & varied party compositions, it allows for so much more role-play. You can bring along useless but fun characters. & if 2 slots are taken up by must have healer & must have thief, then that only leaves 2 for other stuff, and you probably need to have a melee and caster... so you're pretty much set with Thief, Cleric, Wizard, Fighter. I understand that Larian might balance things so that you don't have to have a healer or fighter, but then you're doing "everyone can do everything" roles, which can be pretty dull. I like my fighter to have to rely on squishy healers & the healer rely on the fighter etc. It creates drama and jeopardy.

Character pre-sets - I don't know if this one will be an issue as I don't know if you make your own they'll have their own story, background, relationships, interactions etc. I think I saw in one vid you can chose backgrounds such as Noble, so maybe that then generate your back-story. But how rich this will be compared to the pre-set characters, I don't know & it worries me that to experience a great wizard story, I need to pick Gale. I know there are more pre-sets to come, so maybe, if there are enough, the choices so varied that it'll be satisfying enough what you are choosing. Nevertheless ... I'd still rather be making my own & be confident that the story/background etc is just as rich as the pre-sets.

Turnbased/RTwP - I really wish there was a way you could have both. This is one I shall just have to live with I think. RTwP would be my choice, but I understand the need for turn based. My main issue with turn based (at least from DOS) is the length of fights, having to watch enemies make their moves & the limiting factor being that you can't fight large groups - the fight would take an hour & you'd move once per 10mins - I'm exaggerating. But still, no more getting mobbed by 30 oozes.

Jumping - (this is a pedantic nitpick, but still...) - I just really don't understand the need for this. It gets so tiring selecting each character separately and jet-pack leaping to places. But, at least it looks like everyone can just jump so I don't need to move teleportation gloves all over the place.

Visuals - this one I understand may be a WIP for Larian, so I do hope for changes. BG for me was so iconic for it's dark atmosphere & seriousness. The presentation was so cartoony, bright and leeching in cheery colourful contrasts. The whole feeling of the world we saw and the combat was cheerful and light, almost comical. When they showed that fight with the kicking off of the guy from a ledge, it was such a happy, cheerful & fun fight, the characters chatting away were so jolly. Even the walking brains looked like you could hug them as well as be killed by them. Regardless of how unimportant some people think this is, it's important to me. Visuals, sounds, atmosphere are really important in creating an experience & I do think it's important that it is inspired by past BG titles & that it continues it's own, strong identity with BG3.

Similar to above (& possibly subject to change), all those cartoony visuals & lighthearted characters and atmosphere, but also the movement, skill activation, sounds, toolbar, tooltips, font, character models, character panels; all of this was very overtly cut from DOS. BG3 looses it's identity, it's link with it's own history, inspiration from it's own back titles and instead piggy-backs on a different title. I've read a lot on how this is the other way around, that DOS is inspired by BG, but if that's the case, I'd complain about DOS having lost whatever initial inspiration there was & gone totally its own way. I just think it's too DOS with little inspiration from BG; if I didn't know what I was watching I'd assume it was a DOS dlc. that BG3 is distinct & has its own identity.

I do appreciate that these last points are very objective, that some don't mind/care or think it that important, and that some (perhaps most) of the issues for me are very likely subject to change. And I also understand that I can't judge a game in pre-alpha based on such nitpicking points from about an hour or so of game-play. But I also understand Larian respond to feedback, so there it is!

Some things I loved! - Classes (obvs); cinematics (I get some people find that really jarring, but I liked them from what we saw); the camp mechanic was really nice (although a lot of the cinematics and dialogue choices etc during the camp were to do with the pre-set character, so again, how much will I loose if I make my own, I don't know); I think the story sounds awesome so far, I really hope they refer back to the ilithid wars or their activity in BG2; volo, loved the reference; the camera view looked great; D20 roles, fab.

Sorry this is long and rambling, I tried to be detached from some of these things and I truly do appreciate that this is a pre-alpha, but at the same time I don't want to just sugar coat everything and say it looks perfect & really really want this to be a great game.

i was with you untill you brought up the dark visuals again.
no it wasnt mang.

Baldurs Gate looked like DnD, generic medieval england land, for the most part. Baldurs Gate 2 had some more "Dark" enviroments if you want but they too were nothing out of the ordinary or horror inspiring.

Why not provide screenshots and compare screenshots from BG3 with screenshots of BG1 and 2 in simmilar enviroments and explain to me where the "Dark atmosphere" difference is.

That's because we were largely in Human lands. The sequel gave us Underdark, elven homeland etc. all more "exotic"

Yeah thats exactly my point.
How do you do "idyllic medieval countryside" in a "Dark" way?

I want some direct comparisons between BG2 and BG3 between simmilar locations, i wanna know where this "seirousnes" and "maturity is"
and when i say this, i realize i sound like a 18th cenutry scientist talking about phlogiston, because thats how tangible this thing is

Perhaps in tone and topic? I mean, I'd argue that trying to avoid becoming an illithid is serious enough, kinda like the plot of "Alien" - but it only takes what, 1 week? It can't be the focus of the adventure.

I guess the various Witcher games managed it; as does my still-current pastime, Sacred 2, where Artamark is fairly dark with monsters, fog, creepiness but mostly mud. Of course "dark" is a subjective term. But one that probably involves mud.

I have to agree, that each of the characters presenting themselves as perfectly clean without mud, dirt, grime, or blood staining their faces and or clothing (despite having just removed themselves from the burning wreckage of a crashed spelljammer) really disconnects the whole "dark" mood that it might be trying to convey. I mean, I can possibly understand if Gale presented himself clean (by casting Prestidigitation). But everyone, looks too clean for the immediate setting. If we were in a Noble's home, or even in a gentrified part of town, fine. But we aren't, we are crashed outside some ruins, and everyone is clean, even the temple looters (and I don't recall seeing any wash basin's in the area).

Can we stop moving goalposts here?

The argument at hand was that this looks less "dark" and "gritty" than Baldurs Gate 1 and 2.
So you gotta make THAT comparison.

Vometia: thats because Witcher shows a world based off medieval poland, pretty grim place.
Baldurs Gate meanwhile shows Faerun which is the magical realm of a hippie writer. Baldurs Gate 2s idyllic medieval maedows didnt look any less idyllic than baldurs gate 3s.

AnonySImon wheres the grime and the blood in Baldurs Gate 2?
The character portraits look pretty clean, besides scars on the edgy dwarf.

You are moving the goalposts, Truth is, dynamic dirt and grime is not neccesarily easy to do. Dynamic blood splatters are the only thing i know any RPGs pulling off, and since nobody else did it yet, (at least not any RPGs, uncharted is not an RPG) you cant realy expect this game to do it can you now?