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Original title: This is not BG3 but DOS3

Hi,

I loved DoS1 and DoS2 and BG2 is best game I have ever played.

Simply put, this "BG3" is actually not a BG game, it is a reskin or updated version of DoS, and it should actually be called DoS3.

I know this might sound harsh or cruel to the devs that put so much effort in this game, but this is the sad truth.

If you really wanted to create an entirely new BG game, then using DoS2 as a template that will be tweaked and modified to be similair to BG, was a completely wrong move IMO.

However, probably the funding was low so this is the best we can get. I hope Larian will eventually move on from their DoS template and create a new original game.

All the best.


Edited to change title of merged thread to encompass several different viewpoints without making a statement in itself. -v

Last edited by vometia; 08/11/20 09:08 AM. Reason: title
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Nah, it's not. You should look at those cloned games produced with infinity engines.

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Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
Hi,

I loved DoS1 and DoS2 and BG2 is best game I have ever played.

Simply put, this "BG3" is actually not a BG game, it is a reskin or updated version of DoS, and it should actually be called DoS3.

I know this might sound harsh or cruel to the devs that put so much effort in this game, but this is the sad truth.

If you really wanted to create an entirely new BG game, then using DoS2 as a template that will be tweaked and modified to be similair to BG, was a completely wrong move IMO.

However, probably the funding was low so this is the best we can get. I hope Larian will eventually move on from their DoS template and create a new original game.

All the best.



I get it and maybe not even too late, just call up WotC, talk about it, find something else that's hot in their world and rename it. I don't think dollars are at risk, pride perhaps, but the word is out and will continue to be out there is a new high quality DnD game out true to the core table top game, made by Larain those things alone would have all it needs going for it, for success. They have the best engine for this, but just leave the name and RtwP crowd alone.

Last edited by Horrorscope; 29/02/20 12:33 AM.
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I am impressed by what I've seen, but agree that it doesn't feel like BG, so I'd like to ask Larian what, apart from the setting (we've seen dozens of Forgotten Realms games) do they feel makes a BG game and why they think their effort counts as one.

I'd like to stress again, that I'm not hating, I'm just asking how they think this is BG3 rather than a new (and maybe incredible) FR game?

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This is like taking a game like Dark Souls 3 by a new dev studio, tweaking the existing game mechanics, and then calling the "new" game Elder Scrolls 6, even thought actually the game should be called DS4.

This is similar to Bethesda taking Fallout franchise and building Fallout 3 and 4 on the existing Elders Scrolls 4 mechanics. The difference is that this BG3 will not work as intended because BG2 fans are very specific about what they like and why they like BG and BG2 so much.

A better fit would be is Wotc hired Obsidian because PoE is much more like BG then DoS.

My gut feeling is that Wotc simply didnt want to spend a lot of money on development of a new BG3, so they just said to Larian hey can you make BG3 from DoS2, and what would be the price.

The game has not really been in development a very long time, which means they are trying to make a some money by not investing a whole lot.

Hope for all the best for Larian, but this was a cheap move in my book.

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The feeling that BG3 looks more like a DOS3 than a real D&D Baldur's Gate game seems to spread a lot on the web.
It is also mine.

I find that the artistic direction is quite good and the game looks really beautiful. From this point of view, this BG3 looks very good. Well done Larian!
Now, the way battles are represented and managed, movement, highlighted objects, interactions with objects and even the interface ... it all looks too much like DOS.
The character creation screen is even almost identical to that of DOS!

DOS made success for Larian. OK, that's very good.
Now, I think players expect something else from BG3. More like Baldur's Gate and less like DOS.

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Originally Posted by Melkyor95
The feeling that BG3 looks more like a DOS3 than a real D&D Baldur's Gate game seems to spread a lot on the web.
It is also mine.

I find that the artistic direction is quite good and the game looks really beautiful. From this point of view, this BG3 looks very good. Well done Larian!
Now, the way battles are represented and managed, movement, highlighted objects, interactions with objects and even the interface ... it all looks too much like DOS.
The character creation screen is even almost identical to that of DOS!

DOS made success for Larian. OK, that's very good.
Now, I think players expect something else from BG3. More like Baldur's Gate and less like DOS.


This is the feedback I suspect they are hearing and can rectify in the final product.

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This "BG3" definitely does not resemble a Baldur's Gate game but looks like D:OS 2.5. It doesn't look like they even tried one little bit to be anything other than the next D:OS game.

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Just chiming in. The looks and feel is exact DOS3. it's truly biggest letdown. It's quite obvious Larian doesn't seem to be the right developer to take on this franchise. Don't get me wrong. DOS2 was really great. I enjoyed alot on it. But I'm not expecting to play DOS3 with just a BG me tacked on it. Larian has completely ruined the franchise for me. I have no doubt on Larian capability to make fun and quality games but they failed to capture the feel and settings of baldurs gate. Keep throwing around the word D&D and table top couldn't cover the exact DOS clone. The UI, aesthetics, even the dancing animation were exact clone.

Baldurs Gate 3 no doubt will be a fun quality DOS3 but it's no baldurs gate. Maybe their art team is so accustomed to DOS that they couldnt capture the feel of forgotten realms. Maybe they should just hire a different art team.

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I understand the sentiment of its not BG3, but i think there are some important things to note such as what BG1-2 ment to people. For me its the lore and setting and it being D&D. Not RTwP, infinity engine, and a tone/story we havent even gotten to see a ton of in BG3.

as for DOS3, i understand not wanting it to be BG3 but its not in ANY respect DOS3. DOS2 uses way different rule sets, different leveling, classes, combat etc. the main similarity they have is TB (which is the tabletop system) and its the same engine which of course it is. at best its a skin but its not DOS3. If you reskinned MTG to look like hearthstone it doesnt mean that its hearthstone now and if you told MTG fans it was they would be rightfully upset.

As i see it its Forgotten Realms: Baldurs Gate not DOS3

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Originally Posted by MadameStrangeluv
I understand the sentiment of its not BG3, but i think there are some important things to note such as what BG1-2 ment to people. For me its the lore and setting and it being D&D. Not RTwP, infinity engine, and a tone/story we havent even gotten to see a ton of in BG3.

as for DOS3, i understand not wanting it to be BG3 but its not in ANY respect DOS3. DOS2 uses way different rule sets, different leveling, classes, combat etc. the main similarity they have is TB (which is the tabletop system) and its the same engine which of course it is. at best its a skin but its not DOS3. If you reskinned MTG to look like hearthstone it doesnt mean that its hearthstone now and if you told MTG fans it was they would be rightfully upset.

As i see it its Forgotten Realms: Baldurs Gate not DOS3


Wow, have you ever even played BG1 and 2?

Have you played DOS 1 and 2?

You are honestly saying that you do not see that BG3 is just a re-skin of DOS2?

It took me about 1 minute into the gameplay demo to see what this is all about. I think even Sven Vincke was kind of nervous because he knew he was actually trying to sell DOS3 as BG3, and thats kind of akward if you are trying to be an honest guy.

If Larian wants to be an honest studio they should just say - "listen guys, yea this is DOS3, but to make more money we are calling it BG3 because we got the franchise". If they did that I would respect them more then now, because currently they are just insulting my intelligence.

All BG and BG2 players are grown up people so you cant sell snake oil to us like we are some 15 year fan boy kids. It kind of rude of Larian and Wotc that they are actually trying to sell snake oil.

Best.


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https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1233431915274870784

Max party size confirmed to be 4. What's wrong with more? Is it an engine limitation?

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Originally Posted by korotama
https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1233431915274870784

Max party size confirmed to be 4. What's wrong with more? Is it an engine limitation?



eek... another disappointing decision.

Last edited by vometia; 29/02/20 08:21 AM. Reason: formatting
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Originally Posted by korotama
https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1233431915274870784

Max party size confirmed to be 4. What's wrong with more? Is it an engine limitation?


At this point I don't really care how many characters anymore. It's really on fact just a DOS reskin with Baldurs Gate theme and D&D ruleset.

Aside from this, 4 characters in turn based is already very slow. Adding more will even make it worst.

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this is just getting more and more ridiculous.

the game is so obviously DOS3 that I'm embarrased for Larian.

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Originally Posted by Archaven
Originally Posted by korotama
https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1233431915274870784

Max party size confirmed to be 4. What's wrong with more? Is it an engine limitation?


At this point I don't really care how many characters anymore. It's really on fact just a DOS reskin with Baldurs Gate theme and D&D ruleset.

Aside from this, 4 characters in turn based is already very slow. Adding more will even make it worst.


Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
this is just getting more and more ridiculous.

the game is so obviously DOS3 that I'm embarrased for Larian.


I'm starting to think Beamdog are a company with integrity. There were plans for DLC that would have taken place in the second game but got scrapped. Some(!) parts of SoD weren't half-bad.

Last edited by korotama; 29/02/20 08:47 AM.
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Originally Posted by korotama
https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1233431915274870784

Max party size confirmed to be 4. What's wrong with more? Is it an engine limitation?

Hopefully you weren't expecting a party size of six from a D:OS 2 clone. horsey

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Originally Posted by dlux
Originally Posted by korotama
https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1233431915274870784

Max party size confirmed to be 4. What's wrong with more? Is it an engine limitation?

Hopefully you weren't expecting a party size of six from a D:OS 2 clone. horsey


Part of me was expecting something akin to this: https://www.facebook.com/BaldursGateReloaded
I guess IWD-in-EET is the closest thing I'll ever get to a third game.

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Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
Originally Posted by MadameStrangeluv
I understand the sentiment of its not BG3, but i think there are some important things to note such as what BG1-2 ment to people. For me its the lore and setting and it being D&D. Not RTwP, infinity engine, and a tone/story we havent even gotten to see a ton of in BG3.

as for DOS3, i understand not wanting it to be BG3 but its not in ANY respect DOS3. DOS2 uses way different rule sets, different leveling, classes, combat etc. the main similarity they have is TB (which is the tabletop system) and its the same engine which of course it is. at best its a skin but its not DOS3. If you reskinned MTG to look like hearthstone it doesnt mean that its hearthstone now and if you told MTG fans it was they would be rightfully upset.

As i see it its Forgotten Realms: Baldurs Gate not DOS3


Wow, have you ever even played BG1 and 2?

Have you played DOS 1 and 2?

You are honestly saying that you do not see that BG3 is just a re-skin of DOS2?

It took me about 1 minute into the gameplay demo to see what this is all about. I think even Sven Vincke was kind of nervous because he knew he was actually trying to sell DOS3 as BG3, and thats kind of akward if you are trying to be an honest guy.

If Larian wants to be an honest studio they should just say - "listen guys, yea this is DOS3, but to make more money we are calling it BG3 because we got the franchise". If they did that I would respect them more then now, because currently they are just insulting my intelligence.

All BG and BG2 players are grown up people so you cant sell snake oil to us like we are some 15 year fan boy kids. It kind of rude of Larian and Wotc that they are actually trying to sell snake oil.

Best.



I grew up with BG1 and 2. they were my way of playing D&D because i didnt have many friends and only sometimes got to play with my brother in little solo games. BG3 is not a reskin of DOS2 its a D&D game wearing the skin of DOS2. This is a super important difference because while i may look like DOS2 its core, the rule set, systems, lore, world, etc are NOT DOS2. Thats what my point is. Just because you recolor a game to look like another game doesnt mean its that other game. A game is a GAME the rule set, systems, and all the things that effect gameplay are part of it. DOS3 would not all of a sudden get rid of AP pool, open class system and its whole lore and setting. Thats why it doesnt make sense to call it just DOS3

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Originally Posted by MadameStrangeluv

BG3 is not a reskin of DOS2 its a D&D game wearing the skin of DOS2.

Do we really know if we can call it a D&D game? Not yet.
There will inevitably be D & D5 rules that will be interpreted, rearranged or even ignored.
I also look forward to being told exactly what it will be to comply with D & D5 rules for class, races, skills, attributes, feats, spells, abilities, fights and many other things. .

On the other hand, the general appearance of this BG3 is undeniably very (too!) close to DOS.
In any case, I think that many players - especially those who knew the first BGs - expect something else from the Baldur's Gate license and from a truly D&D game.

And I also think Larian should take this very seriously.

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