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Originally Posted by Melkyor95
For my part, I try to give life to all NPCs with a way of speaking that is specific to each. As DM, I play all the other roles and I want to make it alive, realistic and captivating. It is not always easy but I try. This is what RPG letters really mean. Nothing else.


To you and others, sure. Fine. For me (and others)? Well, I really don't want to be mean, so I'll say no more.

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I mean, historically, D&D is the story-based extension of Gygax and Arneson's previous Wargames Systems.

It was a way to blend the high fantasy of Tolkien with the detailed battles of war simulations. Combat was always at the center of it, but the change was to make it a collaborative story telling system instead of a pure mechanical one.

Gygax has gone on the record numerous time explaining that "D&D is not chess", which means both that it isn't just a turn-based strategy and that the rules are not meant to be fixed and rigid.

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Melkyor95
For my part, I try to give life to all NPCs with a way of speaking that is specific to each. As DM, I play all the other roles and I want to make it alive, realistic and captivating. It is not always easy but I try. This is what RPG letters really mean. Nothing else.


To you and others, sure. Fine. For me (and others)? Well, I really don't want to be mean, so I'll say no more.

No, please, be mean, reveal who you truly are.

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Originally Posted by kungfukappa
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Melkyor95
For my part, I try to give life to all NPCs with a way of speaking that is specific to each. As DM, I play all the other roles and I want to make it alive, realistic and captivating. It is not always easy but I try. This is what RPG letters really mean. Nothing else.


To you and others, sure. Fine. For me (and others)? Well, I really don't want to be mean, so I'll say no more.

No, please, be mean, reveal who you truly are.


Oh, come on. Don't be silly

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by kungfukappa
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Melkyor95
For my part, I try to give life to all NPCs with a way of speaking that is specific to each. As DM, I play all the other roles and I want to make it alive, realistic and captivating. It is not always easy but I try. This is what RPG letters really mean. Nothing else.


To you and others, sure. Fine. For me (and others)? Well, I really don't want to be mean, so I'll say no more.

No, please, be mean, reveal who you truly are.


Oh, come on. Don't be silly

I am being quite serious. I locked my thread because of how antagonistic you are. But I will make it easy for everyone and just block you now.

Last edited by kungfukappa; 05/03/20 07:25 PM.
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Let's get back to the other, er, "ragin' debate", please. Apart from anything I need sleep.


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Originally Posted by kungfukappa
I am being quite serious. I locked my thread because of how antagonistic you are. But I will make it easy for everyone and just block you now.


Haha. Okay

He's referring to this one if anyone wants to see what a meany I am:

http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=661033#Post661033

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Seriously, give it a rest. Final warning.


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hello everyone,

new guy here, i see that what i saw in game-play video is already discussed widely and lengthy here.
i was reading last few pages, but it seems to me that TB is already set in stone as a way that game will be played, which is sad and disappointing, as we are losing all the drama and going into calculated moves.
to TB fans - you realize that TB were created at tabletop as a only possibility to calculate fights in PnP environment?
we don't need to regress to it with computers, let the machine calculate that for you, RTwP is a way to go for multi character game to plan your actions and execute them the way you like.

are there any Larian devs here that comment on this aspect? i was lurking for few days but did not see any.

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Originally Posted by Dom86
to TB fans - you realize that TB were created at tabletop as a only possibility to calculate fights in PnP environment?


Yes

Quote
we don't need to regress to it with computers


Don't see it as regression

Quote
plan your actions and execute them the way you like.


I like TB

Quote
are there any Larian devs here that comment on this aspect? i was lurking for few days but did not see any.


Haven't seen any official forums posts on the subject (and don't expect any). There is a quote floating around from an article wherein the devs made their case on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Dom86
to TB fans - you realize that TB were created at tabletop as a only possibility to calculate fights in PnP environment?


Yes

Quote
we don't need to regress to it with computers


Don't see it as regression

Quote
plan your actions and execute them the way you like.


I like TB

Quote
are there any Larian devs here that comment on this aspect? i was lurking for few days but did not see any.


Haven't seen any official forums posts on the subject (and don't expect any). There is a quote floating around from an article wherein the devs made their case on the matter.


do you live your life turn based? of course it is a regression, you might not like the word, but it is. all characters should be moving in the same time, this prevents what is a nightmare in TB games - taking out everyone in unrealistic fashion, with enemy never even moving ;]

you like TB - that's great - lot's of other TB games out there - why do you want to change what was unique to BG, and what made it fun to play to something different? as it is almost 40 pages of 2 sides yelling @ each other who is most right - that should tell you something - original BG fans CARE about that aspect, it's sad that many times i just read we should shut up and be happy that we are getting something with bg in title.

anyway, just my 0.02 cents, as it seems decision is final, i'll probably skip bg3 as currently it looks uninteresting in gameplay, i might be dinosaur, someone can say - well nobody cares what u think, but in age of information feedback from customers is worth something?

peace.



Last edited by vometia; 06/03/20 02:23 AM. Reason: formatting
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Originally Posted by Dom86
of course it is a regression


A regression because TB came before RTwP? Chronological order is not a necessary measure of quality.

Originally Posted by Dom86
almost 40 pages of 2 sides yelling @ each other who is most right - that should tell you something - original BG fans CARE about that aspect


Yeah, I know. 33,337 votes and 53.6% percent were in favor of BG3 being TB.

Originally Posted by Dom86
why do you want to change what was unique to BG


I can't change anything. Why do I want it to be TB? Because I like it better (and I think it is truer to what D&D is).



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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Combat is usually how XP is rewarded.

Ish. It's also awarded for quest completion, discovery and what-not. I just wish entire RPG designs didn't revolve around combat as being their main purpose. Sure, it's an important part of gameplay, but it's become like that person at a party you don't want to be at who speaks too loudly all the time.

It's how the PoE games do it. No XP for killing anything. Only XP for achieving milestones within quests, which can include getting through some combat situation.

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I don't now if the TB will be better than RTwP, but i can say that seeing the gameplay i realy think that they capture the feel of a D&D encounter, and it seems to me that with all the options of actions that will be avaible during combat even if the game was RTwP we would be pausing every second, making the combat very slow. I just cant understand wy some of you guys are so upset, we saw less then a hour of gameplay from a game that is far from being complete, so much will change, and i like what Larian showed us so far.

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Dom86
of course it is a regression


A regression because TB came before RTwP? Chronological order is not a necessary measure of quality.

Originally Posted by Dom86
almost 40 pages of 2 sides yelling @ each other who is most right - that should tell you something - original BG fans CARE about that aspect


Yeah, I know. 33,337 votes and 53.6% percent were in favor of BG3 being TB.

Originally Posted by Dom86
why do you want to change what was unique to BG


I can't change anything. Why do I want it to be TB? Because I like it better (and I think it is truer to what D&D is).





You can't obviously take those stats to say TB is what players want...
53.6% is far from a large majority and I'm sure Larian wants to convince more than the short majority of 53%.
This is obviously a very difficult question for them and I hope they'll not choose the easy way in the next few years.

And I really find the "it is truer to what D&D is" argument very cheap, according to what the rules are saying...

"A typical combat encounter is a clash between two sides, a flurry of weapon swings, feints, parries, footwork, and spellcasting. The game organizes the chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns. A round represents about 6 seconds in the game world. During a round, each participant in a battle takes a turn. The order of turns is determined at the beginning of a combat encounter, when everyone rolls initiative. Once everyone has taken a turn, the fight continues to the next round if neither side has defeated the other."

=> Half this description talks about speed, reactivity, real time. The turn are obviously here because you cannot play any complexe tabletop game in real time all speaking together at the same time (how would it be possible...)

RTwP vs TB is just about feelings in fights and own preferences (as you said). Both are "true" according the rules.

The question is : do players want to have the exact same feelings playing BG3 as when they are with their friends playing D&D ?
I'm nearly sure the answer is no, and I'm nearly sure morr than half poeple voting on Pc gamers poll had never play tabletop rpg.

Larian choose what they can do "easily". The poll is too divided to say they choose "what players want".

Many players are upset because the main gameplay element of BG is RTwP.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 06/03/20 05:20 AM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
You can't obviously take those stats to say TB is what players want...


I did say, "Yeah, I know." Which means, yes, I know there does seem to be two almost evenly matched sides to this.

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Larian choose what they can do "easily".


They chose to do what they had already done with great success and to great acclaim. Expecting them to have done otherwise is perplexing.

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It's hard to "discuss" with you. It looks you don't want to discuss in fact.
So I'll give you what you want even if I disagree with your only 2 targetted sentences (you forget more than half the previous message)

You are right smile

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What "fact?" Firstly, I corrected your misunderstanding of what I wrote and meant with the poll statistic. Second, I disagreed with your assessment of why Larian is doing what they are doing and said why I disagree.

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
What "fact?" Firstly, I corrected your misunderstanding of what I wrote and meant with the poll statistic. Second, I disagreed with your assessment of why Larian is doing what they are doing and said why I disagree.


I also got answers for that but I won't tell.
Turning round is not intteresting.

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I've never played the previous Baldur Gate games but the game play from this new one seems amazing. To be honest, I wouldn't be interested if it was RTwP as I find it very messy to look at. I also only remember playing 2 RTwP games and never found that type of game play fun. In my opinion, it always felt more like builds were the most important aspect and you pause to micro manage as you react to things. It just doesn't feel like satisfying combat.

Turn based games feel more engaging and strategic to me so while it sucks for the original franchise fans, I hope they don't change from it.

Last edited by Adelbern; 06/03/20 07:50 AM.
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