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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Madscientist
Originally Posted by Emrikol

I suspect an overwhelming number of those who find BG2 the apex of RPGs are roughly 32-38 years of age (born between 82-88), based on a premise (which certainly could be wrong) that our formative years (roughly 10-16) are the most impactful. Most (by a large margin I suspect) born after 88 probably never even played BG1&2, with there being so many more 'modern' alternatives like EverQuest. Most (by a large margin I suspect) born before 82 had plenty of previous games to fill the sacred slot of 'best game ever' (e.g. table top D&D). So, if the range of possible gamers who might play BG is (say) 10 to 70, that 7 year range of 32-38 are a small minority. I could certainly be off by these figures a bit, but I see no reason to suspect that many gamers younger than 32 or older than 38 hold BG1&2 so high. Hence, the niche.


Those are quite a lot assumptions.


Admittedly. But, I do give what I think are legitimate grounds for those assumptions. To put it differently, with the explosion of 3D rpgs around 1999, I suspect many rpg fans born after 88 wouldn't even give a game like BG the time of day; it very quickly looked archaic compared to the likes of Everquest. On the other side, by the time BG was released, those born before 82 likely had the pedestal reserved for something else (most likely D&D itself). BG just couldn't rival the substance of what came before it (D&D) nor the technology that quickly came after it (FF7, Everquest, Zelda Ocarina, Ultima 9).



Once again, if Wizards of the coast had wanted BG3 to look and feel like BG1&2, they would have hired Obsidian and not Larian Studios. Which tells a lot on what their expectations are for the game.

Last edited by Nyanko; 09/03/20 05:50 AM.
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Originally Posted by Nyanko
Once again, if Wizards of the coast had wanted BG3 to look and feel like BG1&2, they would have hired Obsidian and not Larian Studios. Which tells a lot on what their expectations are for the game.


Yeah. I doubt very much that a company of that size went into this without a good amount of research on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
Well, I dont mean to be rude but...why dont you go and play BG1 and 2 games and then imagine them with brutally enhanced 3d graphics 20 years later.

So, another entirely subjective criteria, then. People can not even agree on what the original games look like (see the grimdark discussions), and extrapolating 20 years from that is suppose to be useful?


Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
This is SIMPLY about the FACT that the game looks exactly like DOS2.

I'm not sure you know what the word exact means.


Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
And how exactly do you know how the game will look later?

How do you? At least changes and updates are a reasonable position for a pre-alpha build of the game where the save system hadn't been implemented yet.


Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
Making a game called Baldurs gate THREE and ignoring the COMPLETE fanbase of BG ONE and TWO

Complete? Except of course the BG fans that have posted in various topics that they approve of the current direction, are ok with it, on the fence or would have done things differently but it isn't quite time to get the torches and pitchforks.

Also, given that it is literally impossible to please everyone, any features not to your particular preference does not mean you were ignored. The people making the game are gamers, and like any group have various preferences and opinions. With D:OS 1 and 2, various features and design decisions were debated internally before showing up in public sometimes to be echoed in forums, and points raised in forums have triggered internal debates. That will likely be the case when Early Access starts for BG3, as well.

I do find it funny how people think that Baldur's Gate 3 was going to be more or less like Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 I mean there's games come out like over 20 years ago I do agree with you on you can't please everyone you are going to get people happy but you are also going to get people who are mad at the new look of Baldur's Gate 3 personally I am looking forward to playing Baldur's Gate 3 I have been waiting for a triple A DND video game for a long time I hope Larian Studios does not disappointed me I still have nightmare from Sword Coast Legends


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That's what I said earlier, you are waiting a big new D&D video game.Not Baldur's Gate 3. You're a few that tend to confirm I'm right.

I add just a thing : Looking like is not (only) about visual thingd, please keep that in mind.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 09/03/20 07:06 AM.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
That's what I said earlier, you are waiting a big new D&D video game.Not Baldur's Gate 3. You're a few that tend to confirm I'm right.

I add just a thing : Looking like is not (only) about visual thingd, please keep that in mind.

Yup pretty much I really wish people would stop jumping the gun and wait until Baldur's Gate 3 comes out first all we have seen so far is the pre alpha of Baldur's Gate 3 you can hardly make a judgment on a game when it is still in it's pre alpha stage


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Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock
all we have seen so far is the pre alpha of Baldur's Gate 3 you can hardly make a judgment on a game when it is still in it's pre alpha stage

Quite; and as has been pointed out repeatedly. I'm still not entirely sure what BG is "supposed" to look like anyway, having only seen a tangential debate about whether or not it's supposed to be "grimdark", and not unreasonable observations that it's perhaps largely futile endeavour to try to transpose 20+ year old graphics to a different generation of games.

But at this point it seems to mostly be going round in circles with BG/DOS comparisons being little more than "yes it is/no it isn't".


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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
What looks like BG in the "general gameplay overview" we had ?

This is how our discussion here started. It may be more productive to ask in the AMA, or wait for Early Access to see if the game is closer to what you are looking for.

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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock
all we have seen so far is the pre alpha of Baldur's Gate 3 you can hardly make a judgment on a game when it is still in it's pre alpha stage

Quite; and as has been pointed out repeatedly. I'm still not entirely sure what BG is "supposed" to look like anyway, having only seen a tangential debate about whether or not it's supposed to be "grimdark", and not unreasonable observations that it's perhaps largely futile endeavour to try to transpose 20+ year old graphics to a different generation of games.

But at this point it seems to mostly be going round in circles with BG/DOS comparisons being little more than "yes it is/no it isn't".


Nearly each topics gave exemple on what it was in BG.
We have lots of informations on what BG3 won't look like the previous opus.
Maybe "visual" is finally note so interresting for every dissapointed people.


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Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
What looks like BG in the "general gameplay overview" we had ?

This is how our discussion here started. It may be more productive to ask in the AMA, or wait for Early Access to see if the game is closer to what you are looking for.


We dont know where the AMA will take place

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Nearly each topics gave exemple on what it was in BG.

Which in many cases there was disagreement about. That's why I referenced the grimdark debate. There was also discussion of whether the games were often silly and lighthearted or serious with occasional subtle humour, etc.


Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
We dont know where the AMA will take place

I'm pretty sure that'll be announced before it starts.

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Madscientist
Originally Posted by Emrikol

I suspect an overwhelming number of those who find BG2 the apex of RPGs are roughly 32-38 years of age (born between 82-88), based on a premise (which certainly could be wrong) that our formative years (roughly 10-16) are the most impactful. Most (by a large margin I suspect) born after 88 probably never even played BG1&2, with there being so many more 'modern' alternatives like EverQuest. Most (by a large margin I suspect) born before 82 had plenty of previous games to fill the sacred slot of 'best game ever' (e.g. table top D&D). So, if the range of possible gamers who might play BG is (say) 10 to 70, that 7 year range of 32-38 are a small minority. I could certainly be off by these figures a bit, but I see no reason to suspect that many gamers younger than 32 or older than 38 hold BG1&2 so high. Hence, the niche.


Those are quite a lot assumptions.


Admittedly. But, I do give what I think are legitimate grounds for those assumptions. To put it differently, with the explosion of 3D rpgs around 1999, I suspect many rpg fans born after 88 wouldn't even give a game like BG the time of day; it very quickly looked archaic compared to the likes of Everquest. On the other side, by the time BG was released, those born before 82 likely had the pedestal reserved for something else (most likely D&D itself). BG just couldn't rival the substance of what came before it (D&D) nor the technology that quickly came after it (FF7, Everquest, Zelda Ocarina, Ultima 9).



Just in my close inner circle of 4 friends, we all like (especially me) BG and none of us have reached 30 yet.

Those are quite a lot of assumptions after all...

Boom!

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Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Nearly each topics gave exemple on what it was in BG.

Which in many cases there was disagreement about. That's why I referenced the grimdark debate. There was also discussion of whether the games were often silly and lighthearted or serious with occasional subtle humour, etc.


Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
We dont know where the AMA will take place

I'm pretty sure that'll be announced before it starts.


Disagreement between who ? those waiting for a BG game, those waiting the new larian game, those waiting for the new D&D game.


Last edited by Maximuuus; 09/03/20 12:25 PM.

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Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Nearly each topics gave exemple on what it was in BG.

Which in many cases there was disagreement about. That's why I referenced the grimdark debate. There was also discussion of whether the games were often silly and lighthearted or serious with occasional subtle humour, etc.


I think the main issue was, that people did not feel, that the game has enough similarities with the Baldur s Gate series.
Of course a lot of things will change, but based on the demo people are not, that convinced.
After this people, became overly demanding, like me for similarities.... xD xD

If they would have seen a bit some more smaller or some bigger resemblance to the original game, this would not be such a hot topic.
Not necessary for gameplay reasons, but for the reason to show the community, that the original BG
was just as big influence on the game as DAO.

Subjective stuffs was not on the demo like:
1) UI, spell/ability icons, inventory screen, or just bit less flashy/bass heavy divinity ability animations.
UI for artstyle, not necessary for size of UI.
2) BG and/or dnd items.
3) Travel between maps, or an art of concept of the world map.
4) Similar BG style music at menu screen.
5) Combat system totally different, which influence a lot of gameplay mechanism.
Related to animations for spells ect...
6) A huge skull symbol in front of the dungeon, which could have been connected to BG2 lore.
An abandoned temple/cript of bhaal, or
if the game would have started near to city like candelkeep, Athkatla, or some iconic area.
To remind people which game they play.
7) Meeting our main charismatic Villain in the beginning, like Saverok, Jon Irenicus.
8) Way of narrative, chapter introductions, were amazing, in BG, and it ages very-very well despite of its simplicity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBrn1PxPaQ0 - Chapter 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yWLf2lE1Os - Chapter 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvVMSUEvA68 - Chapter 6

I am not saying everything should be the same, I am saying, that if there would be more similarities to BG1&2,
this DOS2/3 vs BG3 debate would be less intense.

Of course the game looked amazing, interactions with companions were amazing and it will change a lot till release.

Last edited by Minsc1122; 09/03/20 01:04 PM.
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Again, I implore you all to check out the pre - alpha version of DOS 2. it was really different from the final product. the UI was completely replaced, all the armor system was not even there yet, and all the characters were changed... It's not like this game is gonna come out tomorrow... We don't even have a release date for the early access yet...


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Originally Posted by Minsc1122
Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Nearly each topics gave exemple on what it was in BG.

Which in many cases there was disagreement about. That's why I referenced the grimdark debate. There was also discussion of whether the games were often silly and lighthearted or serious with occasional subtle humour, etc.


I think the main issue was, that people did not feel, that the game has enough similarities with the Baldur s Gate series.
Of course a lot of things will change, but based on the demo people are not, that convinced about that.
After this people, became overly demanding, like me for similarities.... xD xD

If they would have seen a bit some more smaller or some bigger resemblance to the original game, this would not be such a hot topic.
Not necessary for gameplay reasons, but for the reason to show the community, that the original BG
was just as big influence on the game as DAO.

Subjective stuffs was not on the demo like:
1) UI, spell/ability icons, inventory screen, or just bit less flashy/bass heavy divinity ability animations.
UI for artstyle, not necessary for size of UI.
2) BG and/or dnd items.
3) Travel between maps, or an art of concept of the world map.
4) Similar BG style music at menu screen.
5) Combat system totally different, which influence a lot of gameplay mechanism.
Related to animations for spells ect...
6) A huge skull symbol in front of the dungeon, which could have been connected to BG2 lore.
An abandoned temple/cript of bhaal, or
if the game would have started near to city like candelkeep, Athkatla, or some iconic area.
To remind people which game they play.
7) Meeting our main charismatic Villain in the beggining, like Saverok, Jon Irenicus.
8) Way of narrative, chapter introductions, were amazing, in BG, and it ages very-very well despite of its simplicity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBrn1PxPaQ0 - Chapter 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yWLf2lE1Os - Chapter 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvVMSUEvA68 - Chapter 6

I am not saying everything should be the same, I am saying, that if there would be more similarities to BG1&2,
this DOS2/3 vs BG3 debate would be less intense.

Of course the game looked amazing, interactions with companions were amazing and it will change a lot till release.


Whether or not Larian should have been more vocal about how pre-alpha this was and how much assets would change going forward is up for debate. I think they were a little naive in the presentation, but one thing I don’t want is to have the juicy details spoiled to me before the game is released grin

I know what you mean, but other than the threat of the Mindflayers, who are still nameless and plotless at this point, I don’t personally want anything beyond visual, changes going into Early Access etc... of course as we get closer to release details will be marketed, YouTube videos etc etc... but we don’t even really have all the details about Doom Eternal and that game is only just over a week away from release and that’s how it should be.

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What should the game be renamed then? Baldur's Gate: Cash Grab? Baldur's Gate: Divinity Reboot? I'll be waiting for your reply, kyrthorsen.

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Originally Posted by korotama
What should the game be renamed then? Baldur's Gate: Cash Grab? Baldur's Gate: Divinity Reboot? I'll be waiting for your reply, kyrthorsen.


Divinity Gate: Baldur's Sin cool

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Originally Posted by YezCrusader
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Madscientist
Originally Posted by Emrikol

I suspect an overwhelming number of those who find BG2 the apex of RPGs are roughly 32-38 years of age (born between 82-88), based on a premise (which certainly could be wrong) that our formative years (roughly 10-16) are the most impactful. Most (by a large margin I suspect) born after 88 probably never even played BG1&2, with there being so many more 'modern' alternatives like EverQuest. Most (by a large margin I suspect) born before 82 had plenty of previous games to fill the sacred slot of 'best game ever' (e.g. table top D&D). So, if the range of possible gamers who might play BG is (say) 10 to 70, that 7 year range of 32-38 are a small minority. I could certainly be off by these figures a bit, but I see no reason to suspect that many gamers younger than 32 or older than 38 hold BG1&2 so high. Hence, the niche.


Those are quite a lot assumptions.


Admittedly. But, I do give what I think are legitimate grounds for those assumptions. To put it differently, with the explosion of 3D rpgs around 1999, I suspect many rpg fans born after 88 wouldn't even give a game like BG the time of day; it very quickly looked archaic compared to the likes of Everquest. On the other side, by the time BG was released, those born before 82 likely had the pedestal reserved for something else (most likely D&D itself). BG just couldn't rival the substance of what came before it (D&D) nor the technology that quickly came after it (FF7, Everquest, Zelda Ocarina, Ultima 9).



Just in my close inner circle of 4 friends, we all like (especially me) BG and none of us have reached 30 yet.

Those are quite a lot of assumptions after all...

Boom!


I make no claims to certainty. Even so, the issue is with those who hold BG1&2 to be the irreplaceable pinnacle of RPG gaming, not just people who liked the game (among whom I can be counted and probably virtually everyone on both sides of every debate).

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus


You'll probably pleased Larian's fanbase, you'll probably please D&D fanbase... But I still never see any "only" BG video game fan that is happy wherever I read discussions about BG3.



I think Larian is very happy if they can please Larian and DnD fans.
They can definitely live with having some angry BG lovers.


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Originally Posted by Archaven
Originally Posted by korotama
What should the game be renamed then? Baldur's Gate: Cash Grab? Baldur's Gate: Divinity Reboot? I'll be waiting for your reply, kyrthorsen.


Divinity Gate: Baldur's Sin cool


I stll prefer my own suggestions:

- Baldurs Gate: The DIVINITYve Edition
- Divinity Original Sin: The Gate of Baldur
- Day of the Tentacle 2: Invasion of the Brain Eaters


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