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Originally Posted by Xary
Originally Posted by Archaven
Speaking of demon, the design of demon in character design don't like it so much. Maybe it's the design.. I don't know how to describe it though. Doesn't look traditional demon. More like a modern demon.

i'm not sure what's wrong with larian's version of demon. was it too modern? too smooth? engine limitation? art direction? his clothes?

https://pasteboard.co/IY7Intq.jpg

here are references of some of the very detail design of fantasy demon:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/488710997039609087/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/833517843517418138/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/732327589390903921/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/300544975135857518/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/726064771161350337/

You aren't familiar with D&D, I think.
The character in the clip of BG3 is almost certainly a Cambion, an half humanoid/ half fiend (fiend is a word used to indicate both demon and devil), and if you look closely it's similar to the third image you posted that is called Cambion, only with more big horn, and dressed as a noble instead that as a fighter. The bigger horn could depend on the humanoid parent.. She/He could be a Tiefling, a race of umanoid touched in ancient time by demon/devil characterized by great horn in modern art... Also the tiefling themselves could be the descendant of cambion with other humanoid...
If you want to see some of the Demons Prince of D&D, take a look to this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k26idR0QYAY&feature=emb_title


you are correct i'm not really that familiar with D&D. however before posting this i was actually searching for reference materials for how demons look in D&D. i couldn't find much reference. what i'm trying to highlight here is the design of larian's version of cambion or demon-touched does not have that fantasy feel to it. perhaps the clothings are off or it's simply too difficult to transition a high fantasy demon to a 3D game? i don't know.

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Originally Posted by Archaven
Originally Posted by Xary
Originally Posted by Archaven
Speaking of demon, the design of demon in character design don't like it so much. Maybe it's the design.. I don't know how to describe it though. Doesn't look traditional demon. More like a modern demon.

i'm not sure what's wrong with larian's version of demon. was it too modern? too smooth? engine limitation? art direction? his clothes?

https://pasteboard.co/IY7Intq.jpg

here are references of some of the very detail design of fantasy demon:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/488710997039609087/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/833517843517418138/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/732327589390903921/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/300544975135857518/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/726064771161350337/

You aren't familiar with D&D, I think.
The character in the clip of BG3 is almost certainly a Cambion, an half humanoid/ half fiend (fiend is a word used to indicate both demon and devil), and if you look closely it's similar to the third image you posted that is called Cambion, only with more big horn, and dressed as a noble instead that as a fighter. The bigger horn could depend on the humanoid parent.. She/He could be a Tiefling, a race of umanoid touched in ancient time by demon/devil characterized by great horn in modern art... Also the tiefling themselves could be the descendant of cambion with other humanoid...
If you want to see some of the Demons Prince of D&D, take a look to this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k26idR0QYAY&feature=emb_title


you are correct i'm not really that familiar with D&D. however before posting this i was actually searching for reference materials for how demons look in D&D. i couldn't find much reference. what i'm trying to highlight here is the design of larian's version of cambion or demon-touched does not have that fantasy feel to it. perhaps the clothings are off or it's simply too difficult to transition a high fantasy demon to a 3D game? i don't know.

As I said before, i think is only the dress, if you look the character has humanoid apparence with demon-like wing and horn, similar to the third image you used.
Cambion are powerfull, charismatic and intelligent compared to humanoid, but only considered something more than a dretch (one of the lowlest demon) by true demons (maybe exept by Graz'zt, one of the Lord of the Demons who look almost like an obsidian human with six finger and like to sire new cambions). Cambion are used to some extent by demons and devils to contact humans, so not always they need to dress as a warrior. It could even be one of the few cambion who has rejected his evil origins... a rare thing but possible
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Cambion

Last edited by Xary; 08/03/20 12:01 PM.
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Think of it has something more similar to a Succubus/Incubus (demons who like to seduce humans)

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Originally Posted by Xary
Originally Posted by Archaven
Originally Posted by Xary
Originally Posted by Archaven
Speaking of demon, the design of demon in character design don't like it so much. Maybe it's the design.. I don't know how to describe it though. Doesn't look traditional demon. More like a modern demon.

i'm not sure what's wrong with larian's version of demon. was it too modern? too smooth? engine limitation? art direction? his clothes?

https://pasteboard.co/IY7Intq.jpg

here are references of some of the very detail design of fantasy demon:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/488710997039609087/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/833517843517418138/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/732327589390903921/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/300544975135857518/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/726064771161350337/

You aren't familiar with D&D, I think.
The character in the clip of BG3 is almost certainly a Cambion, an half humanoid/ half fiend (fiend is a word used to indicate both demon and devil), and if you look closely it's similar to the third image you posted that is called Cambion, only with more big horn, and dressed as a noble instead that as a fighter. The bigger horn could depend on the humanoid parent.. She/He could be a Tiefling, a race of umanoid touched in ancient time by demon/devil characterized by great horn in modern art... Also the tiefling themselves could be the descendant of cambion with other humanoid...
If you want to see some of the Demons Prince of D&D, take a look to this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k26idR0QYAY&feature=emb_title


you are correct i'm not really that familiar with D&D. however before posting this i was actually searching for reference materials for how demons look in D&D. i couldn't find much reference. what i'm trying to highlight here is the design of larian's version of cambion or demon-touched does not have that fantasy feel to it. perhaps the clothings are off or it's simply too difficult to transition a high fantasy demon to a 3D game? i don't know.

As I said before, i think is only the dress, if you look the character has humanoid apparence with demon-like wing and horn, similar to the third image you used.
Cambion are powerfull, charismatic and intelligent compared to humanoid, but only considered something more than a dretch (one of the lowlest demon) by true demons (maybe exept by Graz'zt, one of the Lord of the Demons who look almost like an obsidian human with six finger and like to sire new cambions). Cambion are used to some extent by demons and devils to contact humans, so not always they need to dress as a warrior. It could even be one of the few cambion who has rejected his evil origins... a rare thing but possible
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Cambion


i have read what cambion is about. again i'm highlighting the character design. cambion or half-fiends can look very stylish and cool with it's design. larian's version of cambion could benefit from a more polish design and looks better. it's true the clothing.. perhaps also the wings and texture can be more refined and makes them look more align to D&D design.

Last edited by Archaven; 08/03/20 05:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by Xary
i have read what cambion is about. again i'm highlighting the character design. cambion or half-fiends can look very stylish and cool with it's design. larian's version of cambion could benefit from a more polish design and looks better. it's true the clothing.. perhaps also the wings and texture can be more refined and makes them look more align to D&D design.

Well Baldur's Gate 3 is only in it's pre-alpha stage so I am pretty sure that there will do a lot more polishing before there release Baldur's Gate 3


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Just want to comment here with my full support of the turn-based combat and literally all of the gameplay I saw from the live preview. I don't want the feedback to be skewed by ridiculous, nostalgic BS. I don't have the data to prove it's a "vocal minority" that's upset about no rtwp, but we can all at least be realistic and admit turn-based games sell more than rtwp games these days. There is a reason why PoE 2 went back and added a turn-based mode. There's also no proof that it's NOT a vocal minority -- looking at social media is not proof. People that are upset about what they saw are much more likely to go complain on social media.

I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

Extremely excited for early access.

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Originally Posted by coats707
Just want to comment here with my full support of the turn-based combat and literally all of the gameplay I saw from the live preview. I don't want the feedback to be skewed by ridiculous, nostalgic BS. I don't have the data to prove it's a "vocal minority" that's upset about no rtwp, but we can all at least be realistic and admit turn-based games sell more than rtwp games these days. There is a reason why PoE 2 went back and added a turn-based mode. There's also no proof that it's NOT a vocal minority -- looking at social media is not proof. People that are upset about what they saw are much more likely to go complain on social media.

I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

Extremely excited for early access.

Yep, my game is going to sell billions of copies - I just have to make it turn-based.

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Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by coats707
Just want to comment here with my full support of the turn-based combat and literally all of the gameplay I saw from the live preview. I don't want the feedback to be skewed by ridiculous, nostalgic BS. I don't have the data to prove it's a "vocal minority" that's upset about no rtwp, but we can all at least be realistic and admit turn-based games sell more than rtwp games these days. There is a reason why PoE 2 went back and added a turn-based mode. There's also no proof that it's NOT a vocal minority -- looking at social media is not proof. People that are upset about what they saw are much more likely to go complain on social media.

I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

Extremely excited for early access.

Yep, my game is going to sell billions of copies - I just have to make it turn-based.


That's not the correct logic at all, and in no way relates to a comparison of turn-based and rtwp combat systems. If all other aspects about the game are exactly equivalent, a turn-based game is going to sell more copies than the rtwp version. Excellent try though.

Last edited by coats707; 08/03/20 11:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by coats707
I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

Yeah, I think so too, they'll deal with it.

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Originally Posted by LaserOstrich
Originally Posted by coats707
I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

Yeah, I think so too, they'll deal with it.

I hope so in my day when we did not like something we just moved on to something else


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Originally Posted by LaserOstrich
Originally Posted by coats707
I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

Yeah, I think so too, they'll deal with it.


Turn based is pretty much final. It's the core mechanic for their level design. If they had to change it now, they would need to go back to preproduction. Which is a no go at this point.

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Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock
Originally Posted by Xary
i have read what cambion is about. again i'm highlighting the character design. cambion or half-fiends can look very stylish and cool with it's design. larian's version of cambion could benefit from a more polish design and looks better. it's true the clothing.. perhaps also the wings and texture can be more refined and makes them look more align to D&D design.

Well Baldur's Gate 3 is only in it's pre-alpha stage so I am pretty sure that there will do a lot more polishing before there release Baldur's Gate 3


when should be provide feedback since it's "pre-alpha"? until the game is released?

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Originally Posted by coats707
Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by coats707
Just want to comment here with my full support of the turn-based combat and literally all of the gameplay I saw from the live preview. I don't want the feedback to be skewed by ridiculous, nostalgic BS. I don't have the data to prove it's a "vocal minority" that's upset about no rtwp, but we can all at least be realistic and admit turn-based games sell more than rtwp games these days. There is a reason why PoE 2 went back and added a turn-based mode. There's also no proof that it's NOT a vocal minority -- looking at social media is not proof. People that are upset about what they saw are much more likely to go complain on social media.

I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

Extremely excited for early access.

Yep, my game is going to sell billions of copies - I just have to make it turn-based.


That's not the correct logic at all, and in no way relates to a comparison of turn-based and rtwp combat systems. If all other aspects about the game are exactly equivalent, a turn-based game is going to sell more copies than the rtwp version. Excellent try though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games
Actually your logic in no way relates to a comparison of turn-based and RTwP combat systems and your claim is literally impossible to verify. It's basically a prediction based on hot air.

Last edited by korotama; 09/03/20 02:25 PM.
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Originally Posted by coats707
Just want to comment here with my full support of the turn-based combat and literally all of the gameplay I saw from the live preview. I don't want the feedback to be skewed by ridiculous, nostalgic BS. I don't have the data to prove it's a "vocal minority" that's upset about no rtwp, but we can all at least be realistic and admit turn-based games sell more than rtwp games these days. There is a reason why PoE 2 went back and added a turn-based mode. There's also no proof that it's NOT a vocal minority -- looking at social media is not proof. People that are upset about what they saw are much more likely to go complain on social media.

I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

TB fans are the vocal minority. They try to appear more than they are by being loud-mouthed and in-your-face in their approach to making comments. TB RPG sales are a joke compared with the sales of games like Skyrim, Witcher 3, and all the DA games. TB RPGs are the niche. RT/RTwP RPGs are the mainstream. Any RPG made by CDPR, Bethesda or even Bioware will sell way more than this game. Sorry to burst your bubble.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by coats707
Just want to comment here with my full support of the turn-based combat and literally all of the gameplay I saw from the live preview. I don't want the feedback to be skewed by ridiculous, nostalgic BS. I don't have the data to prove it's a "vocal minority" that's upset about no rtwp, but we can all at least be realistic and admit turn-based games sell more than rtwp games these days. There is a reason why PoE 2 went back and added a turn-based mode. There's also no proof that it's NOT a vocal minority -- looking at social media is not proof. People that are upset about what they saw are much more likely to go complain on social media.

I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

TB fans are the vocal minority. They try to appear more than they are by being loud-mouthed and in-your-face in their approach to making comments. TB RPG sales are a joke compared with the sales of games like Skyrim, Witcher 3, and all the DA games. TB RPGs are the niche. RT/RTwP RPGs are the mainstream. Any RPG made by CDPR, Bethesda or even Bioware will sell way more than this game. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I’m not sure you should lump open world rpg in with RTwP rpg’s, but other than that I’m not sure where sales fall for either side and find the argument tiresome anyway.

This is going to be TB, so rather than us whinging about it again, let’s discuss the pros and cons ad nauseam in the appropriate thread, which isn’t this one.

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Guys, you know where the TB/RTwP topic is, don't start it here too.

At some point I'm going to start just moving stuff, which given the vintage forum software may be as good as deleting it, so you have been warned.


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Interesting list:
There is no turn based RPG among the best selling games, but there is no rtwp RPG too.
I see Diablo3, Skyrim and TW3.
If anything, the list tells us that complex party based RPGs ( tons of races, classes, abilities and game mechanics) are a rather small market in general, no matter TB or not.


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Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by coats707
Just want to comment here with my full support of the turn-based combat and literally all of the gameplay I saw from the live preview. I don't want the feedback to be skewed by ridiculous, nostalgic BS. I don't have the data to prove it's a "vocal minority" that's upset about no rtwp, but we can all at least be realistic and admit turn-based games sell more than rtwp games these days. There is a reason why PoE 2 went back and added a turn-based mode. There's also no proof that it's NOT a vocal minority -- looking at social media is not proof. People that are upset about what they saw are much more likely to go complain on social media.

I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

Extremely excited for early access.

Yep, my game is going to sell billions of copies - I just have to make it turn-based.


you can't blame larian now worshipping just turn-based and won't work on anything else as DOS & DOS2 are the games that bring them up to what they are today.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by coats707
Just want to comment here with my full support of the turn-based combat and literally all of the gameplay I saw from the live preview. I don't want the feedback to be skewed by ridiculous, nostalgic BS. I don't have the data to prove it's a "vocal minority" that's upset about no rtwp, but we can all at least be realistic and admit turn-based games sell more than rtwp games these days. There is a reason why PoE 2 went back and added a turn-based mode. There's also no proof that it's NOT a vocal minority -- looking at social media is not proof. People that are upset about what they saw are much more likely to go complain on social media.

I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

TB fans are the vocal minority. They try to appear more than they are by being loud-mouthed and in-your-face in their approach to making comments. TB RPG sales are a joke compared with the sales of games like Skyrim, Witcher 3, and all the DA games. TB RPGs are the niche. RT/RTwP RPGs are the mainstream. Any RPG made by CDPR, Bethesda or even Bioware will sell way more than this game. Sorry to burst your bubble.

You so realize that RT and RTwP are two completely different systems and naming them as one
is totally made up.
That People love Witcher 3, Skyrim Dark Souls does not make then open for RTwP, which is in fact as
Niche as you can go.

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Originally Posted by Maldurin
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by coats707
Just want to comment here with my full support of the turn-based combat and literally all of the gameplay I saw from the live preview. I don't want the feedback to be skewed by ridiculous, nostalgic BS. I don't have the data to prove it's a "vocal minority" that's upset about no rtwp, but we can all at least be realistic and admit turn-based games sell more than rtwp games these days. There is a reason why PoE 2 went back and added a turn-based mode. There's also no proof that it's NOT a vocal minority -- looking at social media is not proof. People that are upset about what they saw are much more likely to go complain on social media.

I'd hate to see what was shown in the preview ruined by all of this garbage feedback. That said, I think Larian is smart enough to know what they are dealing with.

TB fans are the vocal minority. They try to appear more than they are by being loud-mouthed and in-your-face in their approach to making comments. TB RPG sales are a joke compared with the sales of games like Skyrim, Witcher 3, and all the DA games. TB RPGs are the niche. RT/RTwP RPGs are the mainstream. Any RPG made by CDPR, Bethesda or even Bioware will sell way more than this game. Sorry to burst your bubble.

You so realize that RT and RTwP are two completely different systems and naming them as one
is totally made up.
That People love Witcher 3, Skyrim Dark Souls does not make then open for RTwP, which is in fact as
Niche as you can go.

No. RT and RTwP are much closer to each other than either is to TB. And in parallel, RT fans and RTwP fans overlap each other significantly more than either overlaps with TB fans.

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