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#663515 12/03/20 09:35 PM
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While reading through the questions and responses on the AMA, I saw that the planned level progression for BG3 is only levels 1 through 10 for the full release of the game. I feel like this is a huge mistake for both Larian Studios and Wizards of The Coast if they decide to go this way. The D&D 5e ruleset from my understanding is based around a level 20 cap, so why would they choose to not keep that system which is already defined in the players handbook? Also, if I am only able to level my character 10 times total in a 100+ hour cRPG play-through, I for one would feel pretty cheated. I hate to compare games, but even in Pathfinder Kingmaker you had the potential to reach level 20 by the end of the game. This higher level cap lead to much more flexible builds and a very satisfactory feeling while progressing through the game of gaining power at regular intervals. I hope that Larian Studios and Wizards of The Coast decide to revise their decision to make the level cap 10 and increase the level cap to 20.

MasterServo #663516 12/03/20 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MasterServo
The D&D 5e ruleset from my understanding is based around a level 20 cap, so why would they choose to not keep that system which is already defined in the players handbook?


Maybe because the remaining levels will be for part 2?

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Also, if I am only able to level my character 10 times total in a 100+ hour cRPG play-through, I for one would feel pretty cheated.


I expect you will be far from alone with this sentiment, but I'd say enjoy the ride; playing the game itself should be part of the reward. I'm glad to see they are distancing themselves from the trends of video RPGs (e.g Diablo).

MasterServo #663517 12/03/20 09:43 PM
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Pretty sure this means BG4 is already in the pipeline. (They also said there wont be any DLCs)

One reason why I prefer BG1 over BG2 (while BG2 is objectivly a better game) is the sense of scope. In BG1 they capture that "leaving the Shire for the first time" vibe that is lost the more (literal) experience you get. So for me this isnt bad news at all, it just means we'll get more games in the future.

MasterServo #663518 12/03/20 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MasterServo
While reading through the questions and responses on the AMA, I saw that the planned level progression for BG3 is only levels 1 through 10 for the full release of the game. I feel like this is a huge mistake for both Larian Studios and Wizards of The Coast if they decide to go this way. The D&D 5e ruleset from my understanding is based around a level 20 cap, so why would they choose to not keep that system which is already defined in the players handbook? Also, if I am only able to level my character 10 times total in a 100+ hour cRPG play-through, I for one would feel pretty cheated. I hate to compare games, but even in Pathfinder Kingmaker you had the potential to reach level 20 by the end of the game. This higher level cap lead to much more flexible builds and a very satisfactory feeling while progressing through the game of gaining power at regular intervals. I hope that Larian Studios and Wizards of The Coast decide to revise their decision to make the level cap 10 and increase the level cap to 20.

I do agree with you even though I do think that the level cap at level 10 is a really bad idea but I am still planning on buying BG3 I think the main reason why there are doing this is more to do with the rule books not having levels past level 20 also there could be doing the same thing as BG1 and BG2 with having the same characters from BG3 and BG4 later down the line


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MasterServo #663521 12/03/20 09:52 PM
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I actually do not mind that the full release of the game caps at 10th level. Here are my reasons why:

1) Most D&D 5e adventures are not meant to be run with adventurers past level 10. I recently played in a Curse of Strahd campaign and our party went and handled nearly every side quest available before taking the fight to Strahd, and we were I believe level 12 and completely wrecked his shit. He did not have a chance.

2) Larian Studios is trying to make it so that spells can affect the surrounding environment and tactical aspect of the game. Not having to account for spells of 6th level or higher will help tremendously with this.

3) Baldur's Gate 3 is including not only every class in the PHB, but at a minimum 2 subclasses each. Limiting themselves to only 10 levels means that they have more time to not only make sure they get them done right, but that don't need to spend time making content such magical equipment appropriate for higher levels.

4) By limiting themselves to a level 10 cap, it leaves them open to actual expansions that continue the story, instead of DLCs that merely add new backgrounds, classes, races, spells, and feats.

5) Finally, having a level 10 cap means that Larian Studios can spend less time on classes, and more time on actual plot and story.

MasterServo #663522 12/03/20 10:07 PM
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I don't mind the level 10 cap, for the most part.
The only problem I have is that, in all my years of D&D (I'm new to 5E though), Wizards and Sorcerers suffer until they hit level 6+. So I feel like they will hurt the most with level 10 being max.

Eguzky #663524 12/03/20 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Eguzky
I don't mind the level 10 cap, for the most part.
The only problem I have is that, in all my years of D&D (I'm new to 5E though), Wizards and Sorcerers suffer until they hit level 6+. So I feel like they will hurt the most with level 10 being max.

This is my mine problem with the cap I really like playing as a spellcaster and the Sorcerer is my favourite class


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
Warlock: Greetings my lord-
Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
MasterServo #663525 12/03/20 10:32 PM
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No epic levels... more Doom everyday. I really cant believe this company got this contract, or maybe someone at WotC needs to have a job review?

Last edited by Doomlord; 12/03/20 10:34 PM.

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Legion of Doom - Dungeons and Dragons online - server Orion -
Doom ~ Khazadoom ~ Nexus
AnonySimon #663526 12/03/20 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AnonySimon
I actually do not mind that the full release of the game caps at 10th level. Here are my reasons why:

1) Most D&D 5e adventures are not meant to be run with adventurers past level 10. I recently played in a Curse of Strahd campaign and our party went and handled nearly every side quest available before taking the fight to Strahd, and we were I believe level 12 and completely wrecked his shit. He did not have a chance.

2) Larian Studios is trying to make it so that spells can affect the surrounding environment and tactical aspect of the game. Not having to account for spells of 6th level or higher will help tremendously with this.

3) Baldur's Gate 3 is including not only every class in the PHB, but at a minimum 2 subclasses each. Limiting themselves to only 10 levels means that they have more time to not only make sure they get them done right, but that don't need to spend time making content such magical equipment appropriate for higher levels.

4) By limiting themselves to a level 10 cap, it leaves them open to actual expansions that continue the story, instead of DLCs that merely add new backgrounds, classes, races, spells, and feats.

5) Finally, having a level 10 cap means that Larian Studios can spend less time on classes, and more time on actual plot and story.


1) While admittedly I have not played a D&D 5e campaign, the fact that you wrecked what I assume to be the final boss at level 12 only speaks to the balance, which as accomplished as Larian is, I have complete faith in them to be able to tweak the difficulty of enemies so that you are not completely overpowered by the end of the game or completely overwhelmed by the endgame enemies.

2) Not having a full compliment of spells for a player who wants to play as a spell casting class is kind of lame and would dissuade me from wanting to play as a caster because in my experience magic users for the first 5-6 levels are basically useless.

3) This was actually my problem with BG. While I loved the game, you only really got stronger through the equipment you were wearing unless you were a spell caster. Its an old-school system which has been improved upon IMO since the growth and development of cRPGs to add in power creep from both levels and equipment combined.

4) Expansions are cool since I believe they said there wouldn't be any DLCs, but I still want a full gaming experience where I reach the maximum level that 5e is designed around which is level 20 at the moment.

5) Larian Studios is masterful at crafting worlds and stories, I don't think that neglecting the leveling system will have any tangible effect on the story.

Edit. I cant figure out how the quote system works RIP me

Last edited by vometia; 13/03/20 03:21 AM. Reason: formatting
Doomlord #663528 12/03/20 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Doomlord
No epic levels... more Doom everyday. I really cant believe this company got this contract, or maybe someone at WotC needs to have a job review?

DND don't do epic levels anymore there do have epic boons it seems that DND are doing the same thing as Pathfinder


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
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Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock
Originally Posted by Doomlord
No epic levels... more Doom everyday. I really cant believe this company got this contract, or maybe someone at WotC needs to have a job review?

DND don't do epic levels anymore there do have epic boons it seems that DND are doing the same thing as Pathfinder


Thanks for the update, really have not delved into any Pnp past 3.0, IMO they should have just stopped there ( bad business model I know..) Maybe Im getting to old for this new age crap.


Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Legion of Doom - Dungeons and Dragons online - server Orion -
Doom ~ Khazadoom ~ Nexus
Doomlord #663530 12/03/20 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Doomlord
No epic levels... more Doom everyday. I really cant believe this company got this contract, or maybe someone at WotC needs to have a job review?

Oh look, another 'Larian is evil, woe is us' post.

Larian got the job because they are damn good at what they do, and WoTC look at Div 2 and went 'That engine, and those workers, would be great for what we want out of a Baldur's Gate 3 game'.

You DO realize that, in almost every choice made, Larian has to get the go-ahead from WoTC? WoTC, and indeed most IP holders, want a game that meets certain criteria. They don't want a game that ruins their IP, because that means the IP will make less money now and possible NONE in the future, if the IP bombs enough.

So most any choice Larian has implemented, WoTC has had to okay.

I'd assume that would also include the level cap. Maybe Larian felt the high-level spells were too powerful to balance around. Maybe WoTC actually told them to make it level 10 only.

Last edited by Eguzky; 12/03/20 10:48 PM.
Eguzky #663531 12/03/20 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Doomlord
No epic levels... more Doom everyday. I really cant believe this company got this contract, or maybe someone at WotC needs to have a job review?

Oh look, another 'Larian is evil, woe is us' post.

Larian got the job because they are damn good at what they do, and WoTC look at Div 2 and went 'That engine, and those workers, would be great for what we want out of a Baldur's Gate 3 game'.

You DO realize that, in almost every choice made, Larian has to get the go-ahead from WoTC? WoTC, and indeed most IP holders, want a game that meets certain criteria. They don't want a game that ruins their IP, because that means the IP will make less money now and possible NONE in the future, if the IP bombs enough.

So most any choice Larian has implemented, WoTC has had to okay.

I'd assume that would also include the level cap. Maybe Larian felt the high-level spells were too powerful to balance around. Maybe WoTC actually told them to make it level 10 only.

One level every 10 hrs of game play.. I dont even need to argue with you it says it all. And I did say someone at WotC should have there job reviewed as well...

Last edited by Doomlord; 12/03/20 10:54 PM.

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Legion of Doom - Dungeons and Dragons online - server Orion -
Doom ~ Khazadoom ~ Nexus
Doomlord #663532 12/03/20 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Doomlord
One level every 10 hrs of game play.. I dont even need to argue with you it says it all.


Sounds fine to me

Doomlord #663533 12/03/20 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Doomlord
Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock
Originally Posted by Doomlord
No epic levels... more Doom everyday. I really cant believe this company got this contract, or maybe someone at WotC needs to have a job review?

DND don't do epic levels anymore there do have epic boons it seems that DND are doing the same thing as Pathfinder


Thanks for the update, really have not delved into any Pnp past 3.0, IMO they should have just stopped there ( bad business model I know..) Maybe Im getting to old for this new age crap.

I know that feeling I know more about 3.5e than 5e


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
Warlock: Greetings my lord-
Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
MasterServo #663534 12/03/20 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MasterServo
Not having a full compliment of spells for a player who wants to play as a spell casting class is kind of lame and would dissuade me from wanting to play as a caster because in my experience magic users for the first 5-6 levels are basically useless.


If that is indeed the case, it sounds like a slight flaw in the game, and one that could conceivably be remedied by Larian. I understand and agree with the idea that spell-casters should be weaker early on and stronger later; maybe it just doesn't need to be so pronounced.

MasterServo #663538 12/03/20 11:26 PM
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I'm not used to be agree with you, but yea lvl 10 sounds also good to me^^

It wasn't so bad in BG1. You really feel like a noob in the beginning but you could feel the characters becoming more powerfull at each level up... but never OP.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 12/03/20 11:31 PM.
Maximuuus #663540 12/03/20 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I'm not used to be agree with you, but yea lvl 10 sounds also good to me^^


It's good to find common ground. Cheers

Doomlord #663543 12/03/20 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Doomlord
Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Doomlord
No epic levels... more Doom everyday. I really cant believe this company got this contract, or maybe someone at WotC needs to have a job review?

Oh look, another 'Larian is evil, woe is us' post.

Larian got the job because they are damn good at what they do, and WoTC look at Div 2 and went 'That engine, and those workers, would be great for what we want out of a Baldur's Gate 3 game'.

You DO realize that, in almost every choice made, Larian has to get the go-ahead from WoTC? WoTC, and indeed most IP holders, want a game that meets certain criteria. They don't want a game that ruins their IP, because that means the IP will make less money now and possible NONE in the future, if the IP bombs enough.

So most any choice Larian has implemented, WoTC has had to okay.

I'd assume that would also include the level cap. Maybe Larian felt the high-level spells were too powerful to balance around. Maybe WoTC actually told them to make it level 10 only.

One level every 10 hrs of game play.. I dont even need to argue with you it says it all. And I did say someone at WotC should have there job reviewed as well...


Just because you don't like an idea does not mean someone should be fired.

I'm sorry but this is a HUGE sore point with me. Back before I was on disability, I worked ALLOT of customer service jobs, and I could not count how many times some guy or gal wanted someone fired because their burger did not have cheese on it, or they forgot to say 'no pickles' and expected the worker to read their minds. Or they ordered the wrong meal and decided it was our fault.

I once put up a pizza for 'Smith'. I actually said 'Large sausage & hamburg pizza for Smith. Large sausage & hamburg pizza for Smith. ' over the mic and had to turn to grab another order. Pizza is gone. Smith comes up a minute later (he was in the bathroom), and wonders where his pizza went. I'm confused, because I thought he grabbed it off the counter. We had to make him a replacement pizza, as fast as we could since he was going to a movie with his kids. So he's upset.
Another 5 minutes go by, a 60 year old lady stomps up and starts screaming that we made her VEGGIE PIZZA wrong, and the cook should be fired, and I was incompetent...and then her pizza is put up on the rack, having just finished cooking. (Note: All order have a receipt with the name the customer gave us on it)
This lady heard me say 'SAUSAGE AND HAMBURGER PIZZA FOR SMITH', took it, ate half of it, then realized it was not her pizza..and blamed us. She wanted to be comped her pizza, which she got, hot and ready. I repeat; She wanted us to give her her pizza for free, because she stole someone else's.
Even after she got HER pizza, she was yelling about how stupid we were, and how she was going to call corporate and get us fired. Over HER mistake. She did not ask if it was her pizza. It was clearly sitting on a tray, not covered, with MEAT all over it, and SHE ATE HALF OF IT.
But it was our fault.

People will lie by ordering 'A hamburger, no cheese' and then scream they wanted a cheeseburger, or take the wrong order, so they can get people fired while attempt to get a freaking $6.00 burger meal for free. They don't care that getting someone demoted or fired could cost them food, or an apartment, or their car. They just want instant gratification as the cost of everyone else.

So I bloody loathe when someone gets upset over something and says 'Well <x> should be reviewed/demoted/fired!'.
It does not matter that that could leave some poor worker ultimately homeless, or starving, no. You're unhappy, and someone must pay for it.

/EndRant

Sorry. It just really tweaks me after I spent so long in customer service.

Maximuuus #663544 12/03/20 11:37 PM
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The reason BG1 had a level 10 cap was because D&D at the time was designed around maxing out at level 10. D&D has evolved since that time to be balanced around maxing out at 20 levels, and therefore BG3 should match that change. On top of that as I said before, if you only get to level 10 out of the 20 possible levels, then mages will be basically useless until level 5-6, which I assume would be halfway through the game.

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