Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? #661589
05/03/20 03:16 PM
05/03/20 03:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 13
Briche Offline OP
stranger
Briche  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 13
I guess there will be references to original Badurs Gates. Maybe companions, items, or people telling some stories. Maybe we even will visit Beregost for example.

But... are Siege of Dragonspear or all the new companions a part of the official story?

Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Briche] #661591
05/03/20 03:23 PM
05/03/20 03:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 124
BladeDancer Offline
member
BladeDancer  Offline
member

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 124
I would say yes. But the references would be few since BG3 is more than 100 years after BG1 and BG2. The ending of Siege of Dragonspear ties up several loose ends in the Baldur's Gate Trilogy's plot, like who taught Imoen how to cast spells, how does Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, Dynaheir, Coran, Safana and Viconia know the BG1 protagonist in BG2 Shadows of Amn if he/she didn't meet them in BG1, and what dark circumstances forced the BG1 protagonist to leave Baldur's Gate that led up to him/her being captured by assassins hired by Irenicus. Shadows of Amn's intro (the original edition included) revealed that the authorities of the city figured out he/she is Sarevok's half-brother/half-sister, and that he/she departed soon after "under circumstances more darker than anyone would believe". Also, Siege of Dragonspear ties up a small loose end from the Icewind Dale game.

In the Legends of Baldur's Gate comic books (the comic books that made it possible for Minsc and Boo to be in Baldur's Gate 3) (https://www.comixology.com/Dungeons...9wL2xpc3Qvc2VyaWVzU2VhcmNoRGV0YWlsTGlzdA), Minsc is brought into the present day Forgotten Realms by being freed from being a stone statue in Baldur's Gate by a wild mage named Delina who looks like Neera, with the pink hair and being a wild mage and all, but she is a moon elf instead of a half-elf. Even Minsc calls her Neera, so this is evidence that even the companions from the Enhanced Editions canonically existed in the Forgotten Realms.

Last edited by BladeDancer; 11/03/20 10:43 PM. Reason: Added a link
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Briche] #663408
11/03/20 09:15 PM
11/03/20 09:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 41
Germany/France
Wiborg Sturmfels Offline
apprentice
Wiborg Sturmfels  Offline
apprentice

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 41
Germany/France
It´s confirmed that here will be references to the original Baldur´s Gate D&D campaigns/books but less to the games. The games were different to the books.
The protagonist in the Baldur's Gate Series of games, who was named by the player and could be of either gender and of almost any conventional race and class is in the D&D Lore a male mercenary warrior named Abdel Adrian.

Abdel was after the events of Throne of Bhaal later a Marshal of the Flaming Fist and Grand Duke of Baldur´s Gate. He was killed by his half-brother Viekang in the age of 136 years. You see there are many difference between the D&D Lore and the games.

You can read the story about Abdel in this WIKI.


Baldur's Gate III will refer to the events from the official D&D lore and not from the games. I hope that we will still resist some old companions but also places and objects (like Lilarcor). Let us be surprised what Adam Smith and his writer team of Larian Studios will do. I´m looking forward to it.

Source 1

Source 2

Last edited by Wiborg Sturmfels; 11/03/20 09:17 PM.
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Wiborg Sturmfels] #663411
11/03/20 10:33 PM
11/03/20 10:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 124
BladeDancer Offline
member
BladeDancer  Offline
member

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by Wiborg Sturmfels
It´s confirmed that here will be references to the original Baldur´s Gate D&D campaigns/books but less to the games. The games were different to the books.
The protagonist in the Baldur's Gate Series of games, who was named by the player and could be of either gender and of almost any conventional race and class is in the D&D Lore a male mercenary warrior named Abdel Adrian.

Abdel was after the events of Throne of Bhaal later a Marshal of the Flaming Fist and Grand Duke of Baldur´s Gate. He was killed by his half-brother Viekang in the age of 136 years. You see there are many difference between the D&D Lore and the games.


Correction: The books were different to the games. The books tried to be creatively different from the games, but there were some things that should not have been changed because the games stayed faithful to the D&D lore from sourcebooks. I read the books with a grain of salt or two.

Abdel's backstory is far too different from the game protagonist's backstory for anyone to claim that Abdel is the canon identity of the game protagonist.

1. In the first Baldur's Gate game, the narrator says that the game protagonist, who I will refer to as "Gorion's Ward" has been raised in Candlekeep for 20 years of his/her life, meaning he/she was born either in 1346, 1347 or 1348 DR, unlike Abdel, who is confirmed to be born in 1343 DR.

2. According to Throne of Bhaal, Gorion and a group of Harpers rescued Gorion's Ward and Imoen from a temple of Bhaal when they were babies, leaving young Sarevok behind, and Gorion personally knew Gorion's Ward's mother and was a close friend of hers up until she, as a priestess of Bhaal tried to sacrifice her child. As for Abdel, Gorion did not rescue and adopt Abdel. Abdel was saved by a paladin named Sir Daesric from deathstalkers. Sir Daesric was an old friend of Gorion, and he brought Abdel to Gorion. These details come from the letter that reveals to Abdel that he is a Bhaalspawn in the Baldur's Gate novel.

3. Abdel left Candlekeep in 1360 DR to start his career as a mercenary for hire, eight years before the events of Baldur's Gate, while Gorion's Ward has lived in Candlekeep for 20 years up until 1368 DR. The novel constantly claims how well-traveled and experienced Abdel is.

4. The Baldur's Gate games assumes that you are not playing as Abdel, considering that Gorion's Ward's fame and glory do not last in the game. In the games, in the end of Siege of Dragonspear, Gorion's Ward is forced to escape Baldur's Gate due to the authorities of Baldur's Gate not only finding out that he/she is a Bhaalspawn like Sarevok, but also being framed for Skie Silvershield's murder, which Jon Irenicus instigated to lure Gorion's Ward out of Baldur's Gate to capture. Gorion's Ward is even accused for the destruction of Saradush after defeating Yaga Shura. The people of Baldur's Gate would never accept Abdel Adrian as a hero if they believed he did such a thing. In the novelization of Shadows of Amn, Abdel was all in the clear, no one learned he was a Bhaalspawn, and somehow Irenicus managed to capture him without destroying his reputation. Gorion's Ward falls from glory while Abdel is labeled a hero even if he wasn't involved in stopping the iron crisis. It can happen sometimes, a true hero's glory gets stolen by someone else, and history ends up remembering the wrong person as the hero.

5. Viekang never appeared in the Baldur's Gate Trilogy novels, he only appeared in the games. The fact that he appears in the Murder in Baldur's Gate tabletop adventure game to assassinate Abdel means he canonically survived Saradush's destruction in Throne of Bhaal.

6. If the references were directly from the D&D books and campaigns, then characters that never showed up in the novels should not exist like Coran, who also appeared in the Murder in Baldur's Gate campaign adventure. In the Legends of Baldur's Gate comic books, Minsc does not look the way the Shadows of Amn novel described, having red hair and a beard. He knew Neera from the Enhanced Editions of the Baldur's Gate games, and Coran. Minsc knowing Coran is impossible because they never appeared in the first Baldur's Gate book, and Minsc was demoted to merely a side character in the Shadows of Amn novel.



Last edited by BladeDancer; 11/03/20 10:46 PM. Reason: Spoiler
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Briche] #663429
12/03/20 09:05 AM
12/03/20 09:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,295
S
Sordak Offline
veteran
Sordak  Offline
veteran
S

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,295
pretty much.
i think this is largley up to WOTC who cant decide, basically WOTC treats Abdel Adrian as the Canon CHARNAME, while actually ignoring the (terrible) book abdel adrian is from.

so idk, its some weird stuff

Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Briche] #663432
12/03/20 09:17 AM
12/03/20 09:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 76
Ellderon Offline
journeyman
Ellderon  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by Briche
I guess there will be references to original Badurs Gates. Maybe companions, items, or people telling some stories. Maybe we even will visit Beregost for example.

But... are Siege of Dragonspear or all the new companions a part of the official story?


I hope not.
The EE special snowflake original donut steele characters were vommit enducing

Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Ellderon] #663456
12/03/20 02:46 PM
12/03/20 02:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 300
TheInfinitySock Offline
enthusiast
TheInfinitySock  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by Ellderon
Originally Posted by Briche
I guess there will be references to original Badurs Gates. Maybe companions, items, or people telling some stories. Maybe we even will visit Beregost for example.

But... are Siege of Dragonspear or all the new companions a part of the official story?


I hope not.
The EE special snowflake original donut steele characters were vommit enducing

Well the only time I felt like vomiting was playing Siege of Dragonspear but that was more to do with the way there hardly the story I don't mind gay or lesbian npcs or romances in video games but it needs to fit into the story right


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
Warlock: Greetings my lord-
Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Ellderon] #663495
12/03/20 08:14 PM
12/03/20 08:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 124
BladeDancer Offline
member
BladeDancer  Offline
member

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by Ellderon
Originally Posted by Briche
I guess there will be references to original Badurs Gates. Maybe companions, items, or people telling some stories. Maybe we even will visit Beregost for example.

But... are Siege of Dragonspear or all the new companions a part of the official story?


I hope not.
The EE special snowflake original donut steele characters were vommit enducing


Not everyone had to like it, but SoD tied up some loose ends, even one from the Icewind Dale game.

In Siege of Dragonspear's defense, it was created to tie up loose ends that Shadows of Amn's intro hinted. SoA's intro (even in the original edition) hinted that Gorion's Ward was forced to leave Baldur's Gate "under circumstances more darker than anyone would believe". Do you seriously believe that the people of Baldur's Gate would keep Gorion's Ward around when they find out he/she is a Bhaalspawn like Sarevok? And the gay/lesbian NPC is not at the forefront of the story, that character can be ignored if you are the type of player who does not go around interacting with every NPC you encounter.

Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Briche] #663583
13/03/20 03:48 AM
13/03/20 03:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,187
_Vic_ Offline
old hand
_Vic_  Offline
old hand

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,187
Abdel Adrian was originally one of the presets of the BG videogame before becoming the canon character for D&D ( We knew him before he became mainstream ) and the module "Murder in BG", I do not think the books are canon, because they have a very different ending and the character is not the same as in the module. (And honestly they are not very good)

I do not really know if the EE are canon, I did not see any references to it in the D&D Lore, but maybe?

Misc does not only appear in the comics, but also he is referenced in the official WOTC module DiA, so I think the fact that the bearer of the boot of justice is alive and kicking; it´s canon. I hope he appears in BG3 too.

Last edited by _Vic_; 13/03/20 03:50 AM.
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Ellderon] #663613
13/03/20 09:44 AM
13/03/20 09:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,572
Dark_Ansem Offline

veteran
Dark_Ansem  Offline

veteran

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,572
Originally Posted by Ellderon
Originally Posted by Briche
I guess there will be references to original Badurs Gates. Maybe companions, items, or people telling some stories. Maybe we even will visit Beregost for example.

But... are Siege of Dragonspear or all the new companions a part of the official story?


I hope not.
The EE special snowflake original donut steele characters were vommit enducing


Yeah Baeloth and Dorn Khan are snowflakes all right /s
Moron. /s (NOT!)

Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #663616
13/03/20 10:15 AM
13/03/20 10:15 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,083
The Frog & Hounds
vometia Offline

Duchess of Gorgombert
vometia  Offline

Duchess of Gorgombert

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,083
The Frog & Hounds
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Moron. /s (NOT!)

Don't insult people.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: TheInfinitySock] #663622
13/03/20 11:04 AM
13/03/20 11:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 76
Ellderon Offline
journeyman
Ellderon  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock

Well the only time I felt like vomiting was playing Siege of Dragonspear but that was more to do with the way there hardly the story I don't mind gay or lesbian npcs or romances in video games but it needs to fit into the story right


They can be as gay as they want, just as long as they don't stick out like a sore thumb. And the EE ones were special snowflakes in the worst possible way.

IIRC, some were uncapturable by Bodhi.

Last edited by Ellderon; 13/03/20 11:27 AM.
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: _Vic_] #663635
13/03/20 12:36 PM
13/03/20 12:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 124
BladeDancer Offline
member
BladeDancer  Offline
member

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Abdel Adrian was originally one of the presets of the BG videogame before becoming the canon character for D&D ( We knew him before he became mainstream ) and the module "Murder in BG", I do not think the books are canon, because they have a very different ending and the character is not the same as in the module. (And honestly they are not very good)

I do not really know if the EE are canon, I did not see any references to it in the D&D Lore, but maybe?

Misc does not only appear in the comics, but also he is referenced in the official WOTC module DiA, so I think the fact that the bearer of the boot of justice is alive and kicking; it´s canon. I hope he appears in BG3 too.


Murder in Baldur's Gate takes place 6 years (1482) before the Legends of Baldur's Gate comic books that reveal how Minsc returned (1488), and Descent Into Avernus takes place in the year 1494. The wild mage who accidentally freed Minsc and Boo from being a petrified stone statue looks like Neera from BG:EE, heck, even Minsc thinks she is Neera! That alone hints that the EE is canon in my opinion, there is no way to counter-argue it.

Last edited by BladeDancer; 13/03/20 12:39 PM.
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: vometia] #663734
13/03/20 07:52 PM
13/03/20 07:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,572
Dark_Ansem Offline

veteran
Dark_Ansem  Offline

veteran

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,572
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Moron. /s (NOT!)

Don't insult people.


Then perhaps he shouldn't be a raging homophobe spreading blatant untruths

"Snowflakes", ha!

Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #663743
13/03/20 08:00 PM
13/03/20 08:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 66
Cirolle Offline
journeyman
Cirolle  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Moron. /s (NOT!)

Don't insult people.


Then perhaps he shouldn't be a raging homophobe spreading blatant untruths

"Snowflakes", ha!


I agree here.


The thinly veiled homophobia from 2 posters is way worse than the insult.

Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #663783
14/03/20 02:48 AM
14/03/20 02:48 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,083
The Frog & Hounds
vometia Offline

Duchess of Gorgombert
vometia  Offline

Duchess of Gorgombert

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,083
The Frog & Hounds
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Then perhaps he shouldn't be a raging homophobe spreading blatant untruths

"Snowflakes", ha!

If there are examples of raging homophobia then they will be dealt with, but flaming people just makes my job harder. And for "snowflake"... meh, it's just one of those key words that signals "don't bother reading any further."


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Briche] #663795
14/03/20 06:21 AM
14/03/20 06:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 300
TheInfinitySock Offline
enthusiast
TheInfinitySock  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 300
Well the only BG enhanced edition companion that might make a comeback is Neera do to her being a half-elf


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
Warlock: Greetings my lord-
Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
Re: Are Enhaced Editions canonic to the story? [Re: Briche] #663802
14/03/20 07:23 AM
14/03/20 07:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,295
S
Sordak Offline
veteran
Sordak  Offline
veteran
S

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,295
>if you dont like the ridiculous new characters then youre a homophobe

If your writing is so bad it makes people look like homophobes maybe thats the problem, beamdog


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2