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What are your expectations with this game? #666419
15/04/20 04:44 AM
15/04/20 04:44 AM
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Beeber Offline OP
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Specifically, how do you think BG3 is gonna compare with the legendary BG2?

Honestly, I'm worried. I played BG2 a bit on the hardest setting, and because I'm incompetent who pretends to be cool by playing on the hardest difficulty, all my playthroughs have been utter failures. Simply put, I will never play BG3 until I first beat BG2 on normal settings.

What I'm worried about is this... I love Larian as much as I love Square-Enix, and I pretty damn love Square-Enix. My first Mass Effect game (not a Square-Enix game) was Andromeda. Now, hear me out... My first impressions of that game was great. It's awesome. But I soon learned it is quite possibly the most hated Mass Effect game there is. Bioware has her other games to keep her from going bankrupt, and I don't think Andromeda was an utter failure. It's just that the loyalists of the Mass Effect franchise hated it as much as Morrowind fans hated Skyrim.

I DO NOT want Larian to suffer the same fate. Baldur's Gate 2 is a legend in the RPG world, and I fear my beloved favorite game company (Larian) might receive the same hate Bioware received with Andromeda, or Square-Enix with FF13, or Bethesda with Fallout 76.

I don't wanna say I expect Larian not to get criticized, but I think based on the pattern of how RPG fans generally are, it may well be what will happen. I know I was the same way when I played FF10. I hated it...

I want Larian's BG3 to be her own version of Square-Enix's Shadowbringers.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666420
15/04/20 05:40 AM
15/04/20 05:40 AM
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qhristoff Offline
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It really depends. I expect it will sell well. I expect it will review well and receive a lot of acclaim.

Regarding playing BG1/2 before playing BG3, you are setting yourself up for disappointment on two counts. Firstly, the story of the Bhaalspawn saga has concluded. You will finish BG2 and Throne of Bhaal utterly satisfied. In this way, you will be disappointed if you expect a continuation of this story. It happened as events in the past, but is not the focus of BG3. Secondly, the games themselves will differ greatly. BG1/2 are Real-time with Pause cRPGs set in an open world with non linear progression. BG3 will be a Turn-based cRPG set within Act-based maps/locales with a linear narrative. In this way, if you expect that BG3 will play the same as BG1/2, you will be disappointed.

That being said, this is only to say that they are different products, and you will set yourself up for disappointment by comparing them too closely. BG3 is a new game using currently popular techniques and mechanics meant to introduce people to a faithful adaptation of D&D the pen and paper game. BG1/2 were also new games using then popular techniques and mechanics, but they instead were meant to introduce D&D to computer gamers. It's a subtle difference, but its there.

I fully expect that if you look at BG1/2 and BG3 as separate contained products, and not that BG3 is a direct sequel, then you might fully enjoy both experiences.

Last edited by qhristoff; 15/04/20 05:40 AM.
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666421
15/04/20 05:48 AM
15/04/20 05:48 AM
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i Think its gonna stay divisive.
Im pretty sure its gonna end up beeing a great game btu a lot of people will not like it.
Not even for it beeing BG3, but theres also a huge ammount of divisiveness about the divinity games.
They just dont appear to reasonate with people simply for beeing different frm the CRPG formula.

i think BG3 will be no different in that.
it very much reminds me of DnD edition warring or the debate between DnD and non DnD games like 13th age.

The infinity engine games had a certain cryptic nature to them. Hard to explain but the way the character sheets looked and the way things were structured.
To people not knowing ADnD or just playing a CRPG fo rthe first time, it can be mistifyign and thats part of the charm of those games.
Larian games are more clean in that.
Which takes away the magic for a few people.


As for what i personally suspect a pretty good game, however, due to it beeing a major risk i perhaps dont exactly expect a lot of experimentation.
Which is a shame because experimentaiton was larians thing, btu theyve broken into the Big leagues and now they cant allow themsleves to fuck up.
So i think the "lets try realy radical things" job now lies with owlcats WOTR.
Im realy kind of interrested how a tripple A ascending Larian game will look. With their latest games theyve gotten rid of some of their trademark Jank, but not all of it.
I think at this point its less about what i expect and more that im curious how it will turn out.
Especialy having seen the screenshots and them reminding me a lot of Dragon age, and then having seen the gameplay and that beeing... less so, for better or worse.

>Mass Effect Andromeda
i wouldnt worry, because the comparison simply isnt fair.
mass effect andromeda was a bad mass effect game according to the fans.
But according to most people it was... just a pretty bad game overall.
Your taste is your taste, i also like tons of games that other people consider to be terrible, such as dragonshard, or Enclave, or dark souls 2, but Andromeda had tons of obvious glaring issues.
From the very low variety of cool aliens, the terrible motion capture, the amateurish graphics (seriously who forgets to shade the eyes?), the deliberate uglyfication of the face scanned characters (look up the person that the female protagonists base look is based on, and tell me they look simmilar) and thats only starting to scratch the surface , cause i only bareley mentioned the blatant political baggage that it had.

So if anything, BG3 has only 50% of the hatred that ME:A had. Nameley the "you ruined our brand" hatred. Not the "you made a terrible game" one, or the "you are pushing a stupid narrative" one.

Last edited by Sordak; 15/04/20 05:56 AM.
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666427
15/04/20 09:33 AM
15/04/20 09:33 AM
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Re: Andromeda, as I mentioned elsewhere lately, I think it's actually a very underrated game that became fashionable to hate. Some of the criticisms were valid and having rifled through the game's assets it would appear that someone ineptly altered a whole bunch of stuff in a manner that can only be described as vandalism, and they did indeed seem to specifically target female characters. I've attempted to undo some of the damage in my own game but it's quite difficult as a lot of the changes are practically impossible to fix due to stuff just being destroyed; I can only assume that the originals were also destroyed (and presumably inadequately backed up) and there wasn't time to redo them.

Other than that, though, my opinion is that most of the game is actually well-designed and well-written. There's a lot of it, plenty to explore, plenty of side-quests and I found the characters to be engaging and interesting. It seems a bunch of other gripes were down to EA's usual pressured release schedule causing a lot of stuff to be cut, some of it ending up seeming quite incongruous as a result, but a lot of the rough edges have been dealt with by subsequent patches.

It's a bit sad that it seems that EA/Bioware practically abandoned it before it had even hit the shelves though the problems I describe with the apparent "vandalism" may have been a significant factor in that decision. I'm speculating and I suspect we'll never know the real reason but it seems not unlikely.

I'm currently having a rather belated second play-through and I'm finally running out of steam after two or three weeks, but that's not so much Andromeda as me just not really being in a Mass Effect mood. I'd sooner play it than ME3 or even ME2, though.

Last edited by vometia; 15/04/20 09:34 AM.

J'aime le fromage.
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666430
15/04/20 10:21 AM
15/04/20 10:21 AM
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Sordak Offline
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You wanna elaborate on said vandalism?
ive heard such rumors but i considered them a bit stupid.
why make somehting good and then ruin it?

I remember an old interview where one of the developers said that they left some things delibratley jarring because... something about making it too good would make it unrealistic?

I kind of brushed it off as trying to make an excuse and sell a bug as a feature.

The general consensus back in the day was that Bioware had massive financial problems and replaced some of their veteran developers with rookies straight of the university that just didnt quite got what it take to do tripple A level graphics, especialy when it came to the animations.


But when it come sto the female characters, one cannot help but wonder.
Supposedly, the faces were 3D scanned, so why would they look so much worse than the... real people? not just in attractiveness but in facial proportions and overall not looking very human.
There were also some issues like the character creator at launch not having certain options for seemingly no reason whatsoever such as not having any light skin tones.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666435
15/04/20 10:51 AM
15/04/20 10:51 AM
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Well, speaking of Andromeda and expectations for BG3.. The only game I've ever got refunded was Andromeda. And I don't refund stuff, like, ever. Even when I probably should. And my expectations are that Baldur's Gate 3 will not be the 2nd game I refund laugh

I'm not an Andromeda hater at all, but I do think that the harsh reception it got at launch was fair. What a mess. Credit to EA though (!?!), the refunding process was quick and easy, no problems there.

I bought Andromeda again (at some 20-30 % discount) around 6 or 7 months later and played through the whole thing. After some much needed patching it was definitely decent.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: CPT_SLOW] #666440
15/04/20 11:19 AM
15/04/20 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by CPT_SLOW
Well, speaking of Andromeda and expectations for BG3.. The only game I've ever got refunded was Andromeda. And I don't refund stuff, like, ever. Even when I probably should. And my expectations are that Baldur's Gate 3 will not be the 2nd game I refund laugh

I'm not an Andromeda hater at all, but I do think that the harsh reception it got at launch was fair. What a mess. Credit to EA though (!?!), the refunding process was quick and easy, no problems there.

I bought Andromeda again (at some 20-30 % discount) around 6 or 7 months later and played through the whole thing. After some much needed patching it was definitely decent.


Almost all games are buggy at release.
By those standarts it is a miracle that pathfinder kingmaker sold so well.
It was unplayable at realease but after some patches it was very good.

My advice: Unless you like to be a beta tester, have patience when getting a new game.
You should wait for a few patches before you start playing.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

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Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666441
15/04/20 11:42 AM
15/04/20 11:42 AM
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Games being buggy at release is nothing new, sure. But it certainly isn't an excuse, nor a trend I think we as gamers should support. Regarding Kingmaker, I did read about just how buggy it was, and decided not buy it. I bought it and played it last november (about 1 year after release?), good game. Inexcusably poor at release? Probably.

Even though I honestly would like to think I'm somewhat tolerant, I just don't want to be a beta tester, and I don't appreciate being made one when paying full price for a fully released product (I did study software engineering at college so I really do understand bugs are not something you can get rid of entirely).

As for my release purchase of Andromeda 3 years ago, what can I say.. I was (and still am) a Bioware fan, and a Mass Effect fan frown

There's some of my favourite developers who's game I buy straight away, or even pre-order ( This year of 2020: Naughty Dog's The Last of Us 2 and CDPR's Cyberpunk 2077). Bioware's managed to remove themselves from this list through Andromeda, for sure.

Being patient is good advice. But being patient when you're a hyped up fanboy is tough frown But hey, I have noticed it gets easier as you get older laugh

Last edited by CPT_SLOW; 15/04/20 11:46 AM.
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666442
15/04/20 12:27 PM
15/04/20 12:27 PM
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My expectations for BG3 are bound to not be met. Don't get me wrong...I'm very much looking forward to this game but there a certain things/expectations I can't help but have when they describe this game as wanting to be as close to a PnP experience as you can get on a computer game using 5E rules. I've been itching to play D&D again and this, I hope, will allow me to scratch that itch. But, the few unfortunate things that I have seen are kind of big deals to me. I hate the thought of team-based initiative, I hate the linear progression...being forced through the maze on the correct path without being able to wander (open world), and I hate, absolutely hate, that with all the tech games have today they aren't taking advantage of random encounters and auto-generated instances. This, to me, destroys replayability as on run #2 you will know where every monster is, what every monster is, where secret door/buttons/levers are, etc etc etc. Even just a few randomly generated instances (random layout and random monsters based on the different CR tables in the DMG would be perfect) would be enough. I'm still going to buy EA and hopefully love the game...but those are big things for me.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: vometia] #666447
15/04/20 02:10 PM
15/04/20 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by vometia
Re: Andromeda, as I mentioned elsewhere lately, I think it's actually a very underrated game that became fashionable to hate. Some of the criticisms were valid and having rifled through the game's assets (...)


The situation of BioWare can be explained by this meme

[Linked Image]


--------------------------------------

When BG3 got announced, i was expecting nothing from the game. when i heard that for Vincke, missing obvious not work, spell slots aren't intuitive, etc. I was expecting a Sword Coast Legends clone. Then i saw the reveal gameplay and looks good. Will not be the new ToEE in therms of following the rules but MAYBE can be like NWN2 and modders can UN do all Larian changes.

So i an hopeful.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666449
15/04/20 02:23 PM
15/04/20 02:23 PM
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The gameplay gives good news about the D&D 5e implementation ingame , I hope they also give mod support from the start to add ritual casting, for example.

IMHO Andromeda was very generic and no-risk-allowed for the expectations one could have for a ME game; so it ends up a solid game, but forgettable; It was not as bad as the memes said, tho.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: deathidge] #666452
15/04/20 03:13 PM
15/04/20 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by deathidge
My expectations for BG3 are bound to not be met. Don't get me wrong...I'm very much looking forward to this game but there a certain things/expectations I can't help but have when they describe this game as wanting to be as close to a PnP experience as you can get on a computer game using 5E rules. I've been itching to play D&D again and this, I hope, will allow me to scratch that itch. But, the few unfortunate things that I have seen are kind of big deals to me. I hate the thought of team-based initiative, I hate the linear progression...being forced through the maze on the correct path without being able to wander (open world), and I hate, absolutely hate, that with all the tech games have today they aren't taking advantage of random encounters and auto-generated instances. This, to me, destroys replayability as on run #2 you will know where every monster is, what every monster is, where secret door/buttons/levers are, etc etc etc. Even just a few randomly generated instances (random layout and random monsters based on the different CR tables in the DMG would be perfect) would be enough. I'm still going to buy EA and hopefully love the game...but those are big things for me.

I don't disagree with the appeal (or more accurately, the idea) of having such variety through subsequent playthroughs, but I do find the idea of fusing the PnP experience with an open world somewhat at odds. Yes, you're of course free to go wherever you want in a PnP session, but the DM generally does, or at least should have a story for you follow. For example, if the next lead in the story is to go visit a certain castle in the north, but you decide to just go wandering south instead, would that really make sense? If I were DMing a session and a player did that, I expect I would let them wander for days until they became like Michael Scott trying to imitate Bear Grylles, or let them run into a group of bandits who shakes them down for all their worth. Point is, even though you can go anywhere, it doesn't mean you should. The wilderness isn't a theme park with obvious and guaranteed exciting locations every few miles. Translating to a game, it seems true of a PnP session to have a linear progression. If a game could be large enough to facilitate actual exploration (e.g. at least 100 times the size of The Witcher 3) with no obvious markers (or even maps) that led you to first discover/research leads and such, then okay cool, I guess. I think most people would find that too much work. Best just to follow a story and dispense with a candyland version of an open world. This probably isn't going to be a popular opinion, I expect.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666457
15/04/20 05:05 PM
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I actually don't disagree with that. I get the comparison you make between PnP and a linear storyline, but I would add that I'm talking about replayability here, for the most part. If you finish Campaign 1 with your DM and start Campaign 2...you wouldn't have it to be exactly the same as your first run through. Now, I know it's different because this is a game and there are obvious limitations...but if there was even just a little RNG, like random mobs, random instances that are always different, etc., that would be enough to get something new with each run through. There are a lot of game companies that use a form of AI for their instance building, so you'll never run through the same instance twice. Now, I also get that Larian is telling a story and they need to create their story a certain way and have things laid out a certain way to get it. I accept that. But you can add in non-story driven content just for variety. They should be able to add in caves, structures, and random mobs that don't affect their story but are built with AI so they are different each play through.

For example, take the goblin fortress we saw in some of the new gameplay footage. It's probably story driven so it can't change. But they could add a small section to the map that had something like that, that would be randomly generated when the game is started. So playthrough #1, it might be another goblin fortress. Next play-through you might get a kobold cave instead, or an ogre lair, or bandit hideout, etc. With each of those, the layout would be different; a cave, a fortress, a castle, ruins, etc. That would be such an exciting place to go on each subsequent playthough because it would be different and new. Once you playthrough once...you will never get 'new', besides maybe dialogue options/outcomes.

And it doesn't necessarily need to be a huge open world, either. If they incorporated random enemy spawns of some sort after the original enemies in that area died, that would be enough for people that love one 'zone' and don't want to leave quite yet. This would be difficult since they are voice acting everything and they can't really RNG dialogue with RNG monster spawns...but there are always work-arounds. Like only using RNG monsters that can't dialogue so they don't have to worry about it.

Idk, maybe once I actually start playing I won't notice any of that. That's a very real possibility. I might not really care for any of that, since there is still so much not known yet. But from what we've seen, these are my concerns/thoughts.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: _Vic_] #666471
15/04/20 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by _Vic_
The gameplay gives good news about the D&D 5e implementation ingame , I hope they also give mod support from the start to add ritual casting, for example.

IMHO Andromeda was very generic and no-risk-allowed for the expectations one could have for a ME game; so it ends up a solid game, but forgettable; It was not as bad as the memes said, tho.


They've said they have plans for ritual casting. I take it to mean that it will be in by full launch, but changed some how.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666473
15/04/20 11:29 PM
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Comparing BG3 to Andromeda, Fallout 76 or FF13 sets a pretty low bar for BG3 to climb over. I am quite confindend that whenever I will like it or not, BG3 will be of higher quality then that. For the titles you mentioned IP is what carries them. Fallout76 looks like a complete crapshow. FF13 really wasn't very good. Never played Andromeda, but it looks... fine. Like something I wouldn't mind playing, if I had nothing better to do, but not something I am likely to make time for anytime in the near future. The point, I am trying to make: games OP mentioned get carried by IP, BG3 meantime looks great, by itself - if anything, the the IP it is attatching itself to, is the potential problem.

I wouldn't worry about BG3 reception if it's quality is high. D:OSs were a great success - both critics and players seem to love them. If BG3 can tap into the same crowd, it should do just fine. If they manage to satisfy BG1&2 fans in the process then better for them (and me). I feel BG3 is riding more on Larian wave, then BG wave.

If it would manage to satisfy BG1&2 but not D:OS fans, that would probably be the bigger issue - there is certainly very passionate and vocal group that loves their BG, but is it enough to return investment a game with 250 workforce? I don't think so.


Last edited by Wormerine; 15/04/20 11:29 PM.
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666475
16/04/20 12:36 AM
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*cough* i would swap ME1 and NWN1 on that meme.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: qhristoff] #666477
16/04/20 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by qhristoff
*cough* i would swap ME1 and NWN1 on that meme.


NWN1 has his problems. They not only nerfed some classes but also hard coded many things, making harder to modders to fix their nerfs. But at least NWN1 has no cooldowns and has tons of player made modules...

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666478
16/04/20 04:31 AM
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OP: The lower your expectations, the more you will like BG3.


Thanks for reading...

Razorback aka Daevin Aruth
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Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants, and debt is the money of slaves...
https://discord.gg/jxA5AvA
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Razorback] #666486
16/04/20 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Razorback
OP: The lower your expectations, the more you will like BG3.


lmao. Funniest forum post I've read all month. Of course, to be fair, I haven't really visited a forum outside of this one in this month, not even reddit, but still.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666502
16/04/20 06:08 PM
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Good afternoon everyone. This is my first post here on this forum and the fifth in any forum. To put it bluntly I do not post in forums normally.
So why now? Because out of my extensive experience in playing primarily RPGs since the 80s I have a very close link to Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 and when I heard that Larian was given the green light to finally do Baldurs Gate 3 I was overjoyed but had mixed feelings. Let me elaborate why I am a BG nut and for me is by far the pinnacle of all RPGs to date. As with everything it is an opinion and I say it with the utmost respect to Larian who have made very good games in their own right but because I feel so strongly about this title I hope someone at Larian takes part of my opinion along with the coutless others already on here whilst they develop this great game..

My Experience: I have played most US and European RPGs (I stay clear of JRPGs nowadays because they are a style onto themselves).
On the NES Swords and Serpents
On the Commodore Amiga I finished the Eye of the Beholder series, Dungeon Master series, Ishar series, all the SSI Gold Box games and some obscure titles such as Black Crypt, Crystal Dragon, Obitus etc
On the second and third tier consoles things like Chrono Trigger, Shining Force series and Final Fantasy series
Finally on the PC I started with a continuation of the first person legacy RPGs with Lands of Lore series, Might and Magic series and Ultima series amongst a few others of that type.
Then came the famous Black Isle and Bioware Baldurs Gate isometric style that reminded me initially of the Gold box games - I was hooked to the point of not sleeping. This created the trend for me to do all their followup games Icewind dales Dragon Age games, Mass Effect games, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Lionheart, NWN and Planescape Torment.
I tried Diablo 1 and 2, Dungeon Siege series and notable slower paced clones like the Sacred series, Revenant etc but they were more action with little role playing so I did not finish them.
Finished all of Larians games Divine Divinity, Beyond D, D2, DOS, DOS2
Finished Beamdogs Enhanced remakes and Dragonspear
Finished Obsidians POE 1&2, Tyranny, KOTOR 2, Outer Worlds and Neverwinter Nights 2
Now I am finishing Kingmaker from Owlcat

Now that is out of the way I think I am qualified to make a suggestion.

For Larian to do Baldurs Gate 3, it is not just to represent Dungeons & Dragons lore and rules version "whatever", refer to the spawn of Bhaal, improve on graphics and slap on a new story with new wackey/quirky characters using the DOS engine with a Dragon Age look for a more cinematic experience for the newer generation and even add a day night cycle Oh yeah and the endless argument of TB or RTwP. This is all nice and dandy. The important more complicated question is what made Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 special to stand the test of time and still surpass all other games attempting to imitate them? Sure you can improve on effects and graphics, you can employ good voice actors, epic soundtrack, add special items, secrets, interesting encounters with combat and even create a good game world with good Forgotten Realms story. Several of the games I have finished listed above including Larians have done this already. But why are they not as good as Baldurs?

I think Pathfinder from Owlcat has come the closest to the Baldurs Gate feel to date albeit using different mechanics and adding Kingdom management but it still falls just short.

In my opinion from all I have played, the difference is the characters that accompany you, the characters you interact with and the antagonists of the story. They felt real unpredictable and symbiotic with the world around you. Dragon age, Mass Effect and KOTOR tried to do this in Bioware style, but it was too stereotypical, forced and "guided". With Baldurs Gate (specially number 2) the NPCs had their own agendas, interests and beliefs. There were multiple lines of coding in the background that took account for multiple conditions to be in place for characters to react differently to you and others. This meant that it was entirely possible to behave and roleplay your character and in so doing alienate or gain favour of others sometimes with the support of the companions many of which were romanceable but not easily so by some easy responses in the dialogue. It was done seamlessly and not forced like this SJW LGTB agenda that compels developers in most romance options to have a bisexual interest (its not the orientation but rather the way its implicated). Some characters would abandon you, betray you or come to blows with another party member, even compel you to take a decision you would not have done otherwise. In effect you feel a part of the roleplaying experience not just some nice fantasy story with good combat and effects.

This for me is the defining factor that made it a great game coupled and without detracting the other aforementioned items such as story, graphics, rulesets, voice acting, soundtrack and setting, all important but not defining.

It is what I feel a roleplay experience should be so you feel attached to the people in it and a part of that world, not just a fun flashy experience. Baldurs I feel like replaying not because of multiple endings due to a key decision but multiple in game outcomes that enhance each playthough. Part of that is the realism too, Larian games of late are less gritty than Divine DIvinity, Planescape, Baldurs Gate, POE, Kingmaker or Dragon age. They have quirky characters, funny interactions (overly so) and do not fit the realistic immersion the Baldurs Gate offered.

Herin those are my recommendations and point of view in the hope theat Swen and his team will put some of them into the mix with others made by fans to continue the Baldurs Gate enriching saga and not just be another D&D game living off the fame created by the first 2.

Thank you all for bothering to read this far, as I said I do not normally post things but had to express my opinion for what for me is the most important game ever made.

All the best

Last edited by ImperatorGeneral; 16/04/20 06:59 PM.
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