Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666660
20/04/20 05:41 AM
20/04/20 05:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 29
Oakland, CA
Ser Varnell Offline
apprentice
Ser Varnell  Offline
apprentice

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 29
Oakland, CA
I'll be happier with more content then taking up time and money w/ endless character customization. Especially since this is gonna be primarily a single player adventure w/ a lvl 10 cap. Then when they roll out the DM toolset we can mess around w/ all that. Just my personal opinion..

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666665
20/04/20 10:09 AM
20/04/20 10:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,239
S
Sordak Offline
veteran
Sordak  Offline
veteran
S

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,239
tHe ArT tEaM iS rEsPoNsIbLe fOr tHE cOnTeNt aNd tHE lEvLe cAp

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Sordak] #666669
20/04/20 12:03 PM
20/04/20 12:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 25
Beeber Offline OP
apprentice
Beeber  Offline OP
apprentice

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by Sordak
tHe ArT tEaM iS rEsPoNsIbLe fOr tHE cOnTeNt aNd tHE lEvLe cAp


WhY aRe YoU sPeAkInG lIkE tHiS?

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Wynne] #666675
20/04/20 04:16 PM
20/04/20 04:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 52
ZeshinX Offline
journeyman
ZeshinX  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 52
I suspect the character creation options will be barebones. I'm sure there will be a variety, but it will not be particularly comprehensive and will be "good enough" (meaning it won't please anybody, but will be enough to play without being entirely disappointing). Larian seems pretty set on massively pushing players to use the pregen characters given the amount of work put into them having involved backstory included in the narrative. I get the effort there and don't begrudge them that honestly, it's almost essential given everyone being voiced (a problem that does not exist with silent protags, which I've always preferred).

The major perceivable downside at this time (for me anyway) is that before you even begin play, the experience is already diminished if you create your own character from scratch (which with D&D, is entirely the damn point) when compared to the experience you'll see with a pregen character. You can fashion an incredibly compelling motivation and narrative agency in a character created from scratch (see Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 among the many that exist). Pregens give you more freedom on the creative side to add voiced dialogue throughout, obviously...but the character isn't yours. It's Larian's.

It won't stop me from playing it of course, but I'll certainly never use one of the pregens (as party NPCs, sure, but I will never choose to play as one). I would much rather have seen/heard of Larian putting all that effort into creating compelling options for player created characters...but what's done is done and I'm sure it'll be good enough.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666680
20/04/20 07:12 PM
20/04/20 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,768
Stabbey Online content
veteran
Stabbey  Online Content
veteran

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,768
People on this forums are continuously surprised that a videogame, which has to have all its content pre-created and inserted into the game ahead of time is more limited than what you can do with the power of imagination carefully regulated by a human controlling every step.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Stabbey] #666681
20/04/20 07:45 PM
20/04/20 07:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 52
ZeshinX Offline
journeyman
ZeshinX  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Stabbey
People on this forums are continuously surprised that a videogame, which has to have all its content pre-created and inserted into the game ahead of time is more limited than what you can do with the power of imagination carefully regulated by a human controlling every step.



Play Baldur's Gate 1 and/or 2 with a character you create. Then try it/them with one of the pregen characters. There is a difference. Perhaps not a significant one for yourself if you have done this (which is cool), but for many of us, it makes all the difference in the world. I'll not argue that games are, in their entirety, pregenerated content. Naturally they are, but the feeling/illusion of contributing, however minutely, your own little piece of creation within it is priceless to many who play them (certainly is for me). It's certainly not a mandatory thing to achieve in any game, even an RPG...but it is quite important to many folks when the potential for the option exists, especially when it's been there for previous entries in the series.

This game will have that, to be sure, though it certainly seems to be less of a priority for Larian than ensuring the pregens get all the attention they can muster for them. Now that's just a guess based on what's been revealed, which is admittedly not a great deal, so I (and others saying similar things) may be entirely off base in voicing these thoughts/feelings/opinions. As more and more is revealed I have no doubt my thoughts will change based on what new information comes to light. Time will tell.

Last edited by ZeshinX; 20/04/20 07:51 PM.
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666683
20/04/20 08:52 PM
20/04/20 08:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 156
deathidge Offline
member
deathidge  Offline
member

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 156
First, Swen confirmed that your own custom made characters are going to be far more important in the story than DoS1/2. But there's only so much they can anticipate since they can't write into the game script dialogue for every possibility. That's why they do pregenerated characters to begin with...they know the backstory and can speak to it specifically. With your custom made character, there is no way for them to guess your backstory and script the dialogue and story to it. They can get close, using you class, background, race, etc...but how much do you expect from them when there's no way for them to know more than that about your character? It would be too difficult to try and map certain NPC's into your specific backstory based on just class/race/background. And if they did...going into this game for the first time you'd have no idea who those NPC's even were. And then they probably wouldn't match up at all to what you had expected.

Now, maybe they have a questionnaire that they haven't disclosed or shown off yet where you can add some background information in for a more personal feel to the game. If there are those kinds of choices, you'll get a lot more of a personalized touch...but I see that requiring much more history/lore of Baldur's Gate than most people have.

I just have no idea how people can expect the depth of a custom character to be the same as a pregenerated one. Maybe Larian has found the secret formula to make that happen, who knows.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: ZeshinX] #666684
20/04/20 08:55 PM
20/04/20 08:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 112
Merlex Offline
member
Merlex  Offline
member

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by ZeshinX
... but I'll certainly never use one of the pregens (as party NPCs, sure, but I will never choose to play as one). I would much rather have seen/heard of Larian putting all that effort into creating compelling options for player created characters...but what's done is done and I'm sure it'll be good enough.


I agree with your points mostly. I am going to try Astarion, during early access only. I was already planning on playing an Arcane Trickster for my first run, he fits.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666685
20/04/20 09:06 PM
20/04/20 09:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,239
S
Sordak Offline
veteran
Sordak  Offline
veteran
S

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,239
Its a DnD game Stabbey, i think beeing able to make your own character is one of the most basic assumptions one can make when it comes to such a game

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Sordak] #666687
20/04/20 10:00 PM
20/04/20 10:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,768
Stabbey Online content
veteran
Stabbey  Online Content
veteran

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,768
Originally Posted by Sordak
Its a DnD game Stabbey, i think beeing able to make your own character is one of the most basic assumptions one can make when it comes to such a game


Yes, it's a DnD game.

However, it is also a videogame. I'm sure Larian will try their best to do interesting things for custom characters, but a custom character you create in a videogame will never, ever have the personal attention to detail and the depth of story interactions that you can get with a human dungeon master that tailors a plot based on a player's character in a pen and paper RPG.

When BG 3 comes out, I'm sure that I can make a Halfling Wizard in the game. Will I be able to make the story of Wilbur Greenmeadow, who left his home and life as a gardener behind in an effort to prove himself just as worthy and as great a hero as Melvin Swiftcurrent, who retired back to Blueberry Hills Shire after a series of exciting adventures? Will I be able to fulfill Wilbur's objective to find his missing master, the Wizard who took him in and trained him as an apprentice only to vanish suddenly when Wilbur was running errands in town, leaving behind an abandoned and searched tower? I probably won't be able to do that.

All the input I can give to the game will be race, class, a background and maybe some granularity to the background (Wilbur will have the [Sage] background, with the subtype [Wizard's Apprentice]. And I don't even know if they'll implement the background subtype.) If Larian is really, REALLY ambitious, they might even allow you to select from a short list of "Bond","Ideal", Flaw". But I cannot and do not expect the game to be able to take into account the sort of specific backstory that you can have in a pen and paper RPG.

Last edited by Stabbey; 20/04/20 11:30 PM. Reason: Subtype is proably more accurate than subclaass
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666690
20/04/20 11:11 PM
20/04/20 11:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 75
Van'tal Offline
journeyman
Van'tal  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 75
Having unrealistic expectations can kill an experience so fast....soooooo


I am expecting exactly what I have seen so far: An awesome PC 5e rule set champagne that is faithful to the RAW (Rules As Written).
It is very close to the desktop game, but it has come to life.

What I do Not expect is a sequel to Balders Gate 1 and 2. It is simply in the same region of the same world...ie Faerun (My favorite realm).

Te original BG was a different rule-set and a different time period in Faerun. Now many races are long lived compared to humans, so any of the elves, half-lings, or Elminster (one Mystra's chosen) are likely hanging out someplace.

hat said, this is an opportunity to showcase a brand new story in the same city.

There have been many great and classic stories from this realm. Drizzt had his own set of adventures. Elminster and the other Chosen of Mystra battled against numerous threats...the greatest of which was the attack against the "Weave". The curse of Strahd campaign has been released in more than one rule set. Tales from the Yawning Portal, The eye of the Beholder series, Myth Drannor, Haluura, The Underdark...and on and on.

If they make the game easily mod-able and release a tool-set then they will win.

I am hoping that the game is a success, and that I can look forward to future campaign modules...er um...games...yes that's what they are called... to be released.

Ok so Skyrim is one country in a bigger setting that shares a lore and history with say Morrowind. D&D is like that in it shares a lore and history with all its stories.


Wait and see list:

Engaging NPCs and an awesome story are in my hopeful category. (NPCs include those outside my party)

The story looks very promising, I am hoping for some interesting and challenging side-quests with multiple solutions.

Crafting and filler content can be addressed with mods.


Last edited by Van'tal; 20/04/20 11:14 PM.
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Stabbey] #666692
20/04/20 11:40 PM
20/04/20 11:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 295
Nobody_Special Offline
enthusiast
Nobody_Special  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by Stabbey
allow you to select from a shortlist of "Bond", "Ideal", Flaw".


This would be great and allow for further customization.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666693
21/04/20 12:14 AM
21/04/20 12:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,155
_Vic_ Offline
old hand
_Vic_  Offline
old hand

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,155
It would be great if you also can get some character variations that are "earned", not only chosen at start.

With that I mean introduce some rules that could also add or modify things about your character in the campaign, not only in character creation, depending on your choices in the campaign. I´m fond of that type of modifications that depends on your actions while playing, like campaigns with alignment changes tied to your doings or wrongdoings.

Something in the way of the "Fame and renown" or "Prestige" points or the old reputation system of 3.5 (because alignment is not going to be important or so they told us), different reputations with several factions, maybe titles that you can get in your adventures in the game, boons and curses, or character improvements that you can learn in your free time?

Last edited by _Vic_; 21/04/20 12:26 AM.
Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Nobody_Special] #666699
21/04/20 01:26 AM
21/04/20 01:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,768
Stabbey Online content
veteran
Stabbey  Online Content
veteran

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,768
Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Originally Posted by Stabbey
allow you to select from a shortlist of "Bond", "Ideal", Flaw".


This would be great and allow for further customization.


It would, but looking at the PHB, each of the 13 backgrounds (not counting variant backgrounds) has 8 possible background subtypes, and 6 each of Bond, Ideal, and Flaw. If they were to be more than just color, they'd need to be implemented somehow into the game. That's 22,464 lines of dialogue which would need to be put in, and that's just assuming that each thing only comes up ONCE.

You could probably merge or cut some similar options, but you get the idea. Everything in a videogame has to be put in ahead of time by the developers.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666706
21/04/20 04:28 AM
21/04/20 04:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 246
KillerRabbit Offline
enthusiast
KillerRabbit  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 246
I expect it be BG3. I expect the game to feel like the Baldurs Gate series and not Divinity.

I expect

- The kitchen sink. All the of spells, all of classes and subclass and at least a dozen companions to recruit. Again, this is Icewind Dale 3, DOS3 or the next version or NWN. It's the game that became Bioware's flagship. The game that gave us everything. This is Star Wars, the sequel to the Lord of the Rings. You guys picked up the gauntlet -- we need as many companions as BG2 gave us.

- Detailed stories and banters for all companions -- these need to BG2 length and not DOS2 length. Sorry Beast you can't stay back there playing the taciturn dwarf I expect you speak at least as often as Korgan Bloodaxe did.

- Different strongholds for different classes

- Ability to use my own portrait and to fully control my avatar's appearance. Sure, I liked the forest hooker look of the DOS2 elves but if I want my thief to be clad in leathers and not leaves I should be able to do that.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: Beeber] #666707
21/04/20 06:22 AM
21/04/20 06:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,239
S
Sordak Offline
veteran
Sordak  Offline
veteran
S

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,239
Stabbey stop fighting a point nobody made.

I dont expect a virtual DM.
I expect Sliders.

you slipery sloped right into a can of worms nobody opened.

Re: What are your expectations with this game? [Re: ZeshinX] #666710
21/04/20 08:27 AM
21/04/20 08:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 22
Wynne Offline
stranger
Wynne  Offline
stranger

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by ZeshinX
Larian seems pretty set on massively pushing players to use the pregen characters given the amount of work put into them having involved backstory included in the narrative. I get the effort there and don't begrudge them that honestly, it's almost essential given everyone being voiced (a problem that does not exist with silent protags, which I've always preferred).

The major perceivable downside at this time (for me anyway) is that before you even begin play, the experience is already diminished if you create your own character from scratch (which with D&D, is entirely the damn point) when compared to the experience you'll see with a pregen character. You can fashion an incredibly compelling motivation and narrative agency in a character created from scratch (see Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 among the many that exist).

It won't stop me from playing it of course, but I'll certainly never use one of the pregens (as party NPCs, sure, but I will never choose to play as one).

From PCGamesN.com:

Quote
“This isn’t D:OS2,” senior writer Adam Smith says in a Reddit AMA. “In BG3, custom characters have a much stronger connection to the world and the main arc of the story – whether they’re from Baldur’s Gate, further afield, or somewhere else entirely (hey, githyanki). The campaign is much more reactive to your actions – when we say there are serious consequences to your choices, we really mean it – and as you move through your adventure, you’ll discover quest-lines and stories that relate directly to the character you’re roleplaying, and the things that you’ve done.”

So even if you don’t have a pre-baked backstory, your character’s place in the world will be determined by the parameters you’ve decided on – like if they’re Baldurian or from the Underdark – and the choices you make throughout the game.

You’ll even get full voice acting for custom characters. Larian founder Swen Vincke says “you’ll choose a voice as part of character creation – and your character will be fully voiced, not just for barks!”

So there you have it. They are aware of the problem and working on it. This isn't something they have no clue matters to anyone. Hopefully that's as heartening to you as it was to me when I read it.

I'm not completely against Origin characters. I actually really like Lohse in DOS2, though I got lucky there. Currently, however, neither Shadow nor Laezel is anything like what I'd want to play; in my first playthrough I always want to go for a character who's a kindred spirit to me. I like both but don't feel connected to them in a protagonistic sort of way. Only two female characters puts me at a choice disadvantage again, though at least this time the male characters aren't all water water everywhere. I mean, you go into DOS2 wanting to get it on with Beast or Red Prince or pre-mask Fane then you are VERY different from me. *lol* Just saying. But I digress.

I do like Origins to a degree, but this time I don't yet see one I'd want for myself, and I'm far more excited to play a drow or half-drow and a dwarf and an aasimar, maybe a tiefling. I think the tags are also a very good system. Ideal, for me, is something like in Inquisition where the game knows things about your character based on what you chose to be--if you're a mage, that has a huge effect. An elven mage was raised among the Dalish, a nomad, rather than being part of the Circle Tower a human would've been cloistered in. A qunari mage is lucky to not be truly qunari anymore, but a Tal-Vashoth mercenary, because they haven't had their eyes and mouth stitched shut like the saarebas. Racism in the setting and cultural variations have different effects as well even for non-mages.

That sort of setting variety IS present here. If you're a warlock, for instance, or a noble, or a drow, there's a lot that can be done with that. I hope it will be so, and more pervasive but less restricting than being an undead in DOS2. Bring on the tags, I say.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
a custom character you create in a videogame will never, ever have the personal attention to detail and the depth of story interactions that you can get with a human dungeon master that tailors a plot based on a player's character in a pen and paper RPG.

I'm confused as to what your goal is with this. It's like walking onstage at a theater event about to begin and saying "Hey, hey guys, you know what? This isn't a movie, it's a stage play. It's a stage play not a movie. They can't do as much as a movie can. The whole building won't explode like in movies. You didn't know so I'm telling you." Well... actually, we did know, and we bought our tickets knowing such, but we still have some reasonable expectations for what we want to see based on previous stage plays we've seen and that is fine and normal, we're just talking about those expectations and what would satisfy us. Since Larian's interviews imply they are pushing the envelope now that they have grown in their capabilities, we are hardly amiss to do so. Their own community update says "It has always been Larian’s plan to create games that allow you to play however you wish." Discussing our hopes for how that will be achieved is par for the course on a message board about an upcoming game.

Originally Posted by _Vic_
It would be great if you also can get some character variations that are "earned", not only chosen at start.

With that I mean introduce some rules that could also add or modify things about your character in the campaign, not only in character creation, depending on your choices in the campaign. I´m fond of that type of modifications that depends on your actions while playing, like campaigns with alignment changes tied to your doings or wrongdoings.

Something in the way of the "Fame and renown" or "Prestige" points or the old reputation system of 3.5 (because alignment is not going to be important or so they told us), different reputations with several factions, maybe titles that you can get in your adventures in the game, boons and curses, or character improvements that you can learn in your free time?

YES. I like this idea so much! I was just thinking how unsatisfying flat positive/negative reputation is. There was a hero tag you could earn in DOS2--maybe something like that, but a bit more complex, like hero points that could be offset with villain points. If you have 10 hero points, people think you're dashing and expect you to rescue them when you show up. 10 villain points, and they run for the hills. If you have 5 hero points and 5 villain points then they're just confused and nervous. *lol*

Among companions, a more personal reputation would be amazing. You could get callousness points, so you're not the one people turn to when they're upset or need something, or empathy points so that they are. Would be harder to implement but very rewarding to see the companions grow to expect you to act a certain way. I like it when significant moments are recorded in some way and come back to haunt you. Even a small measure of that sort of thing makes you feel like you're having an impact and really roleplaying.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2