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MasterServo #666551 17/04/20 09:24 PM
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What makes high level 5e boring is that chars has way too much hit points and is not like 2e/3.5e where one failed save from a finger of death trap can insta destroy your character and enemies can deal a lot of damage...

5e lacks any tension on combat...

Last edited by SorcererVictor; 17/04/20 09:27 PM.
MasterServo #666552 17/04/20 09:39 PM
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It depends on the campaign, the party level and the enemies.
Hags are so ugly that their spells can kill frightened players, intellect devourers have the "body thief" ability that allows them to substitute the brain of the PC and take the body of the character, and there are enemies that can deal you Massive damage that can kill you instantly. (When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum), some spells like "power word: kill", "Phantasmal killer" or "disintegrate", etc

But yeah, in general terms, it´s harder to die in 5e due to several tricks and the rules about death and dying.


Sc: https://5e.tools/bestiary.html
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells

Last edited by _Vic_; 17/04/20 09:54 PM.
MasterServo #666561 18/04/20 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MasterServo
The reason BG1 had a level 10 cap was because D&D at the time was designed around maxing out at level 10. D&D has evolved since that time to be balanced around maxing out at 20 levels, and therefore BG3 should match that change. On top of that as I said before, if you only get to level 10 out of the 20 possible levels, then mages will be basically useless until level 5-6, which I assume would be halfway through the game.


A level 13 cap would of worked better for me, and some build ideas I have. But I understand people's frustration with only 10 levels in 100 hours of gameplay. For me it's fine, levels will mean something. I'm in it for the adventure. Yeah I like to level, but if it's too much, then it's meaningless. I tried to play Neverwinter Online, and quit after a half an hour. Level 70/ 80 characters really???

And btw, BG1 was based on the second edition rules. In the PHB, which I'm looking at right now, classes capped at 20, not 10.

Last edited by vometia; 18/04/20 03:41 AM. Reason: formatting
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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
What makes high level 5e boring is that chars has way too much hit points and is not like 2e/3.5e where one failed save from a finger of death trap can insta destroy your character and enemies can deal a lot of damage...

5e lacks any tension on combat...

You say this but I have Tabaxi a Rogue with 12 CON that dropped once per battle. :P

I was giving him battle scars based on the attack that downed him + how badly it had to hit him to down him. The plan, if he survived the campaign, was to buy art of him, a before/after of him at level 1, untouched and fresh-faced VS him at level whatever, with all his scars.

The campaign went on hold when life slapped me around, and now it's permanently on haiatus, and I can't afford said drawing. Ah well.

Eguzky #666567 18/04/20 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
What makes high level 5e boring is that chars has way too much hit points and is not like 2e/3.5e where one failed save from a finger of death trap can insta destroy your character and enemies can deal a lot of damage...

5e lacks any tension on combat...

You say this but I have Tabaxi a Rogue with 12 CON that dropped once per battle. :P

I was giving him battle scars based on the attack that downed him + how badly it had to hit him to down him. The plan, if he survived the campaign, was to buy art of him, a before/after of him at level 1, untouched and fresh-faced VS him at level whatever, with all his scars.

The campaign went on hold when life slapped me around, and now it's permanently on haiatus, and I can't afford said drawing. Ah well.


Rogues always had low survivability. On 2e/3.5e, your character would be dead so quickly... But a lv 20 Barbarian(which has great survivability) on 2e and on 3.5e can be taken out by a single finger of death(if he fails the same of course), on 5e, they can take like 5 FoD before reaching negative HP using average hit dices...

One thing that 2e did right is that after lv 10, takes a eternity to level up in XP requirement(btw, on bg2 you gain 10x more xp for killing the same mob) and each level up after 10 gives very little HP.

When i soloed as a sorcerer, using dice to determine level up instead of max hp in every level, i reached lv 20 with 47 HP (btw, i din't re rolled my stats on char creation, had like 76 in total, only putted max int and cha sacrificing dex, wis and dex in the process)

But i an re playing BG2, this time as a dragon disciple and here is how much lethality BG2 has. I can kill end chapter 4 enemies with a single tier 5 spell.

[Linked Image]

MasterServo #666570 18/04/20 06:48 AM
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If you play a villain correctly there is a lot of tension.

A villain using his multi-attack on the same PC. PC goes down with the first attack and then Villian strikes the PC for the second attack causing a double failure on the death save. A villain doesn't always go to the next PC to attack. Remember it is a 6-sec decision.

Then the live PC have to scurry about trying to save their party member.

A spellcaster cast magic missile at a PC, the first magic missile causes the PC to go to zero, and the other two missiles hit him. Because of the extra attacks of the magic missiles, the PC by rules as written is dead.

MasterServo #666571 18/04/20 07:35 AM
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>muh fast character death
as if dying to random dicerolls was fun
Save or suck is pure unadultered bullshit

MasterServo #666579 18/04/20 03:46 PM
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> Save or suck is pure unadultered bullshit


No, was not. Spells that transform enemies into toads exists in all of literature. There are no better way to portrait then than with this mechanic. Same with deadly poisons and other things. And this is not only a D&D thing. Finger of Death exists on a lot of games like M&M VI and enemies can use it vs the party too.

MasterServo #666728 22/04/20 01:37 AM
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A lot of people believe that high level D&D is bad because they try to make high level gameplay on middle of Sword Coast... Wanna a high level(14+) adventure? Go for frozenfar, underdark, in a elemental plane, in far realm, feyworld, or something similar.

Most TTRPG adaptations that goes for high level have you spending a lot of time in this regions. nwn1 Hotu after a short introduction has you going to the underdark and then to the 8th layer of hell. nwn2 MotB you even visit the wall of faithless. BG2 campaign end by you facing your arch enemy in HELL. On ToB you gain a hellish pocket dimension in literally the second place that you visit. And most of conflict on the "material plane" is caused by other Bhaalspawn, Pathfinder Kingmaker has you visiting and dealing with creatures from feyworld a lot.

MasterServo #666735 22/04/20 02:56 PM
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Yeah and save or suck is still a stupid mechanic.
It existing in othe rmedia is not an argument.

its a stupid mechanic relying entierly on RNG, and the worst kind since it exclusiveley depends on the score of one character.

later editions solved the situation much better.
such as a basilisks stone gaze first slowing you, then paralyzing you and THEN if you fial a third time turning you to stone for good, giving your allies an actual chance to save your dumb ass.

MasterServo #666736 22/04/20 04:23 PM
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A lot of games uses this mechanics. Might & Magic VI~VIII had enemies that can insta erradicate your party members. Just use protection from petrification or in worst case, stone to flesh.

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I can't say that I agree with a cap at level 10. I get the whole part of 5E being of a faster progression. However what I hate about 5E is the fact that customization of the character has ben taken down to bare bones. Also the fact that 5E has for the most part killed the fun and wonder of multiclassing. Yes I admit I'm a staunch supporter of 3.5 and all of it's various ways you could customize a character and the different routes you could take it. I understand that 5E sought to streamline everything with it's subclass/specialization system for each class. Yet at the end of the day to me it seems rather lackluster and very underwhelming. So then if the cap in this game is at 10 then those of us who enjoy multiclassing are going to be very hindered in the game. Even in Pathfinders PC rpg there was a level 20 cap and multiclassing was very much evident as was the prestige class system. Granted I understand that was using Pathfinder 1st edition which was written under the OGL same as 3.5, but this is why I say things have been watered down to much in regards to 5E to the point for more experienced players (those that I've spoken with personally), it's taken the enjoyment out of the game.

MasterServo #676158 27/09/20 09:31 PM
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The level cap has since been raised from 10. It has not been stated what the new cap is, only that it is less than 20.

Warlocke #676180 28/09/20 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
The level cap has since been raised from 10. It has not been stated what the new cap is, only that it is less than 20.


Any guesses? My guess is lv 13 and after all DLC's, 15 or 16.

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I’d say 12 to 14 seems like a safe guess. I hope that they release an expansion to take us all the way up to 20. We will see.

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Warlocke
The level cap has since been raised from 10. It has not been stated what the new cap is, only that it is less than 20.


Any guesses? My guess is lv 13 and after all DLC's, 15 or 16.


No DLC's; Larian has never done a DLC afaik

MasterServo #676215 28/09/20 05:14 PM
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My guess would be the new cap is 12th level, which allows a few fun things including a third feat, but stops before 7th level spells, which include several tough-to-program/balance items like Etherealness, Plane Shift, Reverse Gravity, and Simulacrum.

Useful higher level spells like Resurrection can be given on a limited basis through scrolls or items (which they’re already doing—Speak With Dead is a third level spell, even though EA caps at character level 4), but unlimited access to 7th level spells introduces a lot of complications, potentially more than they’re willing to deal with for “just” one more character level.

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