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Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth #670706
16/07/20 05:30 AM
16/07/20 05:30 AM
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_Vic_ Offline OP
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Community Update #4: A Little About...unity Update#4: About Combat and Stealth

Quote
"We invested heavily into what drives our animation pipeline, and specifically made tweaks to improve the feel and motion in combat. The increased brevity and flow is down to many, many changes shaving off microseconds (and sometimes entire seconds). For example, another character’s turn will begin - behind the scenes - as the previous character is ending their animation. Even things as simple as combining move animations with the hit of a melee strike shaves seconds off combat.

BG3’s combat is now set so that each combatant takes a turn at a time but there’s a twist. If multiple combatants of the same faction follow one another in the turn order, then you can simultaneously command each of them.

That means that based on the results of the initiative roll, you’ll experience a different tactical puzzle in each combat that really mixes everything up but still allows you to react to the “cards” you’re “dealt”, so to speak. (There aren’t literally any cards, sorry MTG fans!) Between the RNG of initiative, and the planning, you should be able to have a fresh experience with every combat while still being able to predict and plan with friends how to combine spells and abilities, and ultimately win the fight.

Baldur’s Gate 3 is a party-based game that you can play alone, controlling each character, or as a party of up to four where each person rolls their own character. (It’s of course possible to also play as 2, or 3 people, with AI, etc).

In multiplayer, when your avatars and companions are next to each other in the turn order players can simultaneously control characters. This allows you to communicate with your friends and combine spells and abilities to take advantage of more brains on the battlefield, and more hands on the keyboard. This, compared with Divinity: Original Sin 2, drastically reduces the amount of time each player would have to wait between turns, since they’re able to move together."


"Our stealth mechanics now also take light and darkness into account. You can be obscured or heavily obscured so that even when you are caught in the visibility cones of the enemy, you still have a chance to slip through unseen. Of course, that is if your enemies don’t have darkvision. Here’s a little table that summarizes how light, darkness and darkvision affect stealth.

Clear area = always visible.
Lightly obscured = stealth check.
Lightly obscured + enemy has darkvision = visible.
Heavily obscured = undetected.
Heavily obscured + enemy has darkvision = stealth check.

Things get even more interesting when you discover you can manipulate light by using spells or throwing water at a torch, as lighting is dynamic, and thus shadows are also."

Last edited by _Vic_; 16/07/20 05:37 AM.
Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670707
16/07/20 06:31 AM
16/07/20 06:31 AM
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SorcererVictor Offline
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"Things get even more interesting when you discover you can manipulate light by using spells or throwing water at a torch, as lighting is dynamic, and thus shadows are also.""

Amazing. Illusion spells generally are pretty poorly implemented on most games. Since i love necromancy, I can't use illusions on BG2 due my specialization, but lets see if Larian will make rogues and illusionists great. Simulacrum and mirror images are great on BG2 but be able to interact with the scenario fits more a illusionist.

Last edited by SorcererVictor; 17/07/20 02:29 AM.
Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670711
16/07/20 06:41 AM
16/07/20 06:41 AM
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Tarorn Offline
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I was wondering the rolls you see to pass the various checks they are already taking into account characters abilities & buffs ? e.g if a rogue is sneaking around a guard & needs say a 10 to be successful then I take it a plate wearing fighter needs a 19, or if you are moving a group the game works out averages & spits that out as the roll required say a 14 ?

This may be common knowledge I just hadn't seen it clearly demonstrated apart from in an individuals case & I just assume all the buffs etc are built into the roll required - I hope Im making sense......

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670712
16/07/20 06:46 AM
16/07/20 06:46 AM
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i like it, on the other hand it might lead to uncanny things like oyu putting out fires and NPCs not noticing

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670721
16/07/20 12:21 PM
16/07/20 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarorn
I was wondering the rolls you see to pass the various checks they are already taking into account characters abilities & buffs ? e.g if a rogue is sneaking around a guard & needs say a 10 to be successful then I take it a plate wearing fighter needs a 19, or if you are moving a group the game works out averages & spits that out as the roll required say a 14 ?

This may be common knowledge I just hadn't seen it clearly demonstrated apart from in an individuals case & I just assume all the buffs etc are built into the roll required - I hope Im making sense......

I am pretty sure skill checks will be per-character. That's how it seems to be with perception for example - every character makes a seperate roll.

All I like. Stealth has always been awkward in RPG. I think Pillars did a half decent job, but this is shaping up to be on another level. Anything that reminds me of Thief is good in my book. And adding enviromental effects to spells should be a big boon.

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670726
16/07/20 04:44 PM
16/07/20 04:44 PM
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I think they did a fantastic job with the new initiative system! I think they got the best of both worlds, maintaining everyone having their own initiative but also allowing you to do simultaneous moves or switching orders when your party members are going back to back. It allows you to do some more complex tactics but at the same time also ensures that you must think on your feet as each tactical situation will be different considering that the turn order may or may not give you these back to back situations!

Last edited by TheRedDragon; 16/07/20 04:46 PM. Reason: spelling error
Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: TheRedDragon] #670730
16/07/20 05:48 PM
16/07/20 05:48 PM
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kanisatha Offline
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Originally Posted by TheRedDragon
I think they did a fantastic job with the new initiative system! I think they got the best of both worlds, maintaining everyone having their own initiative but also allowing you to do simultaneous moves or switching orders when your party members are going back to back. It allows you to do some more complex tactics but at the same time also ensures that you must think on your feet as each tactical situation will be different considering that the turn order may or may not give you these back to back situations!

How is it best of "both worlds"? There are no two worlds here. Only one world - one combat system. People who like that get what they want, while those who don't like it don't get what they want. I want simultaneous movement and controlling my party however I want. I DO NOT get that from this system. You are being completely disingenuous in trying to claim that those of us who don't like this system are still somehow, magically, getting what we want.

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670737
16/07/20 09:34 PM
16/07/20 09:34 PM
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_Vic_ Offline OP
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Sounds nice that you can play with 2, 3, 4, with IA, etc. in MP It would come in handy if someone has to leave or the net goes down here, as usual.

That kind of cool hybrid system would allow some pretty crazy stunts in Mp: Taunt the guys with one player, flank with the other and then a zero strike together if we are side by side.


Also it seems darkvision became a very important feature if you are playing a rogue or some sneaky character, for players and enemies alike.





Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: kanisatha] #670740
16/07/20 10:51 PM
16/07/20 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by TheRedDragon
I think they did a fantastic job with the new initiative system! I think they got the best of both worlds, maintaining everyone having their own initiative but also allowing you to do simultaneous moves or switching orders when your party members are going back to back. It allows you to do some more complex tactics but at the same time also ensures that you must think on your feet as each tactical situation will be different considering that the turn order may or may not give you these back to back situations!

How is it best of "both worlds"? There are no two worlds here. Only one world - one combat system. People who like that get what they want, while those who don't like it don't get what they want. I want simultaneous movement and controlling my party however I want. I DO NOT get that from this system. You are being completely disingenuous in trying to claim that those of us who don't like this system are still somehow, magically, getting what we want.


You claim to not know why people single you out for your opposition to TB, but you constantly go out of your way to make it an issue when that isn’t what is being discussed. You also put words in people’s mouths, in this case accusing somebody of insincerity in a claim they never made or implied.

Just doing you a favor: this is why people single you out.

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670741
16/07/20 11:38 PM
16/07/20 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by _Vic_
Sounds nice that you can play with 2, 3, 4, with IA, etc. in MP It would come in handy if someone has to leave or the net goes down here, as usual.

That kind of cool hybrid system would allow some pretty crazy stunts in Mp: Taunt the guys with one player, flank with the other and then a zero strike together if we are side by side.


Also it seems darkvision became a very important feature if you are playing a rogue or some sneaky character, for players and enemies alike.






Looking forward to Darkvision! I like how there seems to be two aspects of it, the game mechanics, such as aiding in seeing obscured enemies as well as also helping darkvision characters under our control see better for the extra immersion.


Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by TheRedDragon
I think they did a fantastic job with the new initiative system! I think they got the best of both worlds, maintaining everyone having their own initiative but also allowing you to do simultaneous moves or switching orders when your party members are going back to back. It allows you to do some more complex tactics but at the same time also ensures that you must think on your feet as each tactical situation will be different considering that the turn order may or may not give you these back to back situations!

How is it best of "both worlds"? There are no two worlds here. Only one world - one combat system. People who like that get what they want, while those who don't like it don't get what they want. I want simultaneous movement and controlling my party however I want. I DO NOT get that from this system. You are being completely disingenuous in trying to claim that those of us who don't like this system are still somehow, magically, getting what we want.


You claim to not know why people single you out for your opposition to TB, but you constantly go out of your way to make it an issue when that isn’t what is being discussed. You also put words in people’s mouths, in this case accusing somebody of insincerity in a claim they never made or implied.

Just doing you a favor: this is why people single you out.


Thanks for responding to the previous poster Warlocke and may your search for hidden knowledge increase your magical prowess. smile

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: TheRedDragon] #670742
17/07/20 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TheRedDragon

Thanks for responding to the previous poster Warlocke and may your search for hidden knowledge increase your magical prowess. smile


As Lord Cthulhu wills it, it shall be so.

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: Warlocke] #670743
17/07/20 12:20 AM
17/07/20 12:20 AM
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kanisatha Offline
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by TheRedDragon
I think they did a fantastic job with the new initiative system! I think they got the best of both worlds, maintaining everyone having their own initiative but also allowing you to do simultaneous moves or switching orders when your party members are going back to back. It allows you to do some more complex tactics but at the same time also ensures that you must think on your feet as each tactical situation will be different considering that the turn order may or may not give you these back to back situations!

How is it best of "both worlds"? There are no two worlds here. Only one world - one combat system. People who like that get what they want, while those who don't like it don't get what they want. I want simultaneous movement and controlling my party however I want. I DO NOT get that from this system. You are being completely disingenuous in trying to claim that those of us who don't like this system are still somehow, magically, getting what we want.


You claim to not know why people single you out for your opposition to TB, but you constantly go out of your way to make it an issue when that isn’t what is being discussed. You also put words in people’s mouths, in this case accusing somebody of insincerity in a claim they never made or implied.

Just doing you a favor: this is why people single you out.

Oh I know exactly why certain people single me out. Someone being a jerk towards me is not exactly difficult to figure out.

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670751
17/07/20 05:31 AM
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It looks amazing about lights but I'm really conflicted with the idea of a button to turn everything into TB.
It looks so easy to avoid traps or ennemies with that system... I think it's gonna be so easy to start nearly every single fight with a crit in the back of moving ennemies.

I could understand a pause so you can take your time, choose the right moment and move with accuracy but here doesn't it look like a cheat ?
What do you think about it ?

I hope they'll change the field of view because we can see moving things on a way larger angle than what we saw in the gameplay videos.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 17/07/20 05:40 AM.
Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: Maximuuus] #670754
17/07/20 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
It looks amazing about lights but I'm really conflicted with the idea of a button to turn everything into TB.
It looks so easy to avoid traps or ennemies with that system... I think it's gonna be so easy to start nearly every single fight with a crit in the back of moving ennemies.

I could understand a pause so you can take your time, choose the right moment and move with accuracy but here doesn't it look like a cheat ?
What do you think about it ?

I hope they'll change the field of view because we can see moving things on a way larger angle than what we saw in the gameplay videos.



I think they will balance the encounters to take advantage & disadvantages into account - agree with you this looks like a great take on the stealth system & the TB piece is just a way they are trying to bring some aspects easier in table top gameplay to a computer game - you have to applaud them for all the mechanics they are bringing into this game.

Last edited by Tarorn; 17/07/20 06:34 AM.
Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670756
17/07/20 07:11 AM
17/07/20 07:11 AM
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The Frog & Hounds
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Guys, you know where the TB discussion is. It doesn't need to be in every topic.

Edit: okay, I admit it hasn't turned into "that" discussion yet. And hopefully it won't. :p

Last edited by vometia; 17/07/20 07:14 AM.

J'aime le fromage.
Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: Tarorn] #670757
17/07/20 07:24 AM
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_Vic_ Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tarorn
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
It looks amazing about lights but I'm really conflicted with the idea of a button to turn everything into TB.
It looks so easy to avoid traps or ennemies with that system... I think it's gonna be so easy to start nearly every single fight with a crit in the back of moving ennemies.

I could understand a pause so you can take your time, choose the right moment and move with accuracy but here doesn't it look like a cheat ?
What do you think about it ?

I hope they'll change the field of view because we can see moving things on a way larger angle than what we saw in the gameplay videos.



I think they will balance the encounters to take advantage & disadvantages into account - agree with you this looks like a great take on the stealth system & the TB piece is just a way they are trying to bring some aspects easier in table top gameplay to a computer game - you have to applaud them for all the mechanics they are bringing into this game.


I think the option to go into TB for several seconds would be great to fine-tune in case of puzzles, ambushes or for some rogue works. The more they give info about how the stealth system works, the more I like it.
With a robust thievery system It would be great if they make a revival of the old "Thieve´s guild" missions. Kinda miss them.

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670772
17/07/20 05:33 PM
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Warlock , Devil sight, Darkness spell. Should be an intersting combo.

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: Silverthorn75] #670818
18/07/20 07:18 PM
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Shadow monk who can turn invisible as an action and teleport as a bonus action in dim light or darkness without using ki points is gonna be a fun class.

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670832
19/07/20 01:57 PM
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Some of this is highlighting features we have already seen in gameplay ( choosing to switch to TB mode outside combat, and the move from party-based to individual initiative ).

I definitely like that the lighting and shadows are dynamic; in the first gameplay it looked like it might be pre-baked. Stealth looks a lot more viable now, which might provide some interesting opportunities for traditional role-play elements ( e.g. slip past potential enemies, steal keys, open alternative safer routes etc ). Depends how it's used.

Pleased to see attention to speeding up combat ( shortening animations and overlapping turns where possible ), as that is my main concern with TB combat. Also interesting to see that the MP mode has the option to play short-handed by having party members AI controlled.

Extending this AI option to SP mode such that you can turn AI on/off for each character ( maybe via a button on each portrait ) would be welcome, as it would allow you to choose how much or how little control you want to apply, depending on your RP preferences, and possibly the current situation. In extremis, if that is not implemented, I suppose one can play MP with just one player to get an AI party smile

Re: Official Community Update #4:Combat&Stealth [Re: _Vic_] #670940
22/07/20 11:40 AM
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In this interview with Edouard Imbert, senior designer there´s an interesting answer :
Edouard Imbert translated interview

Quote
Can fights be avoided by using social skills?
Yes. All the fights that Sven did [Editor's note: in the version shown to the press], could have been avoided. There is none that was essential. Each time, there is a dialogue: that's something new. It's a big evolution for us since DOS 1. In this game, you had monsters; they were aggressive so as soon as they saw you, they attacked you. It is something that we no longer do or if we do, it is extremely rare. Without exaggerating, you can avoid everything. You can talk, lie or just hide each time. There is no fight that you have to do.

Sounds like roguelike tactics and stealth could be feasible to bypass many enemies of the game, so maybe it could be possible to play an entire run of the game using those tactics.

The way he phrased it kinda remembered me the V:TM bloodlines game, where you can achieve your objectives not only fighting, but using your social skills, cunning tactics or stealth. That sounds like a great approach that I look forward to.


Last edited by _Vic_; 22/07/20 11:42 AM.
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