Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 17 18
Joined: Aug 2018
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Aug 2018
Originally Posted by Dragon_Master

Every single time I ask these questions I'm either insulted or they double down and never make any attempt to answer any of the questions.


that's because they aren't interested in a genuine discussion, they are only interested in satisfying and validating their frustration that the game isn't precisely what they want or envision. Honestly it's not even worth the energy acknowledging those claims.

Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Visual, UI, animations, camera, spellcasting, companion numbers, interactions with environnement, TB, banner (top of this forum), origin characters, character creations (visual), 1 act/maps (confirmed during the AmA), meetings with the companions, companions goal at the beginning are the same, ...

There are many things that LOOKS totally like DoS.
I'm not saying it's bad and not saying everything is exactly the same but many things taste DoS, the lore and the rules taste the FR/D&D but nearly nothing taste Baldur's Gate.

BG is not only D&D or the FR even if hearing/reading you, it looks it's the only things lots of players liked about it.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 31/08/20 06:10 PM.
Joined: May 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: May 2020
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Just add... What D&D race of elves are plants? laugh


I most certainly can add that question! Thanks.

Originally Posted by DrunkPunk
Originally Posted by Dragon_Master

Every single time I ask these questions I'm either insulted or they double down and never make any attempt to answer any of the questions.


that's because they aren't interested in a genuine discussion, they are only interested in satisfying and validating their frustration that the game isn't precisely what they want or envision. Honestly it's not even worth the energy acknowledging those claims.


True, but asking those questions and getting that reaction is useful if anyone is new to the forum, or if they are new to the forum, to see where they truly stand on the subject.

Debates are just as much about convincing other people reading the arguments with your case as it is trying to disprove the other person's points.


"I used my last magic poo to check in on my daughter." Scanlan Shorthalt.
Joined: May 2019
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: May 2019
Originally Posted by Dragon_Master
There are a series of questions I ask over on the Steam forums every single time someone says BG3 is DOS3.

1. How many action points does it take to move?
2. How many action points does it take to attack?
3. How many rounds of cooldown would you need to wait before you can cast a fireball spell a second time?
4. Where in Rivellon is the city of Baldur's Gate located?
5. Who has access to Source in the Forgotten Realms?

Every single time I ask these questions I'm either insulted or they double down and never make any attempt to answer any of the questions. The answers are very basic and simple. No action points to move or attack because D&D 5E, and BG3 don't use action points whereas DOS does, there are no cool-down rounds for using spells and abilities, only spell slots, Rivellon is not the Forgotten Realms and Source is not a thing.

Of course, answering these questions always disproves the very premise that BG3 is DOS3 so no one ever answers them when they're also saying BG3 is DOS.

That's because these so-called questions are silly and asinine. Saying BG3 is like D:OS is not even close to being the same as saying BG3 is 100% identical to D:OS. Nobody is saying BG3 is 100% the same as D:OS, because to say that would mean BG3 and D:OS are literally the same game. So your supposedly "brilliant" attempt at playing gotcha is in reality reductio ad absurdum.

Joined: Sep 2017
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
So, what´s the % acceptable to disregard the "BG3 is DoS3" ?
Because we already know that the creature design is from the official D&D books of WoTC, the character creation and rule/combat mechanics are from D&D5e, The lore about ceremorphosis, ilithids, bloodwar and Baldur´s gate comes from WotC, there are no action points, cooldowns, free skill selection, it´s a different world with different lore, the story has nothing to do, different races (Dwarves, lizards, elves are very different in both worlds, mechanically and in lore), and I could be here until tomorrow...

You can discuss that BG3 does not feel to you like you felt with the previous games, I can understand that, but stating that the sword coast it´s similar to Rivellon or the previous DoS games to what we know about Bg3 is absurd.

So now Mass effect is now Halo5 because you have laser guns and shoot things?

Telltale´s Minecraft and the Minecraft sandbox are the same game because the characters and zombies look the same squarefaced guys?

Final fantasy tactics and Final fantasy are the same games because both have chocobos and dark wizards and look the same ?

Last edited by _Vic_; 31/08/20 08:24 PM.
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
The title of the topic is about the Baldur's Gate name.
Saying BG3 looks like DoS mean it looks more like DoS than BG wink

The only things that looks like BG in BG3 don't come from BG itself but from D&D.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 31/08/20 08:54 PM.
Joined: Sep 2017
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
Yeah, well, an ostrich looks more like an robin than a Whale, but don´t expect them to start flying south in winter.

Joined: Aug 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2020
It's worth noting that D&D illustrations have changed the look of things en masse over the course of the editions. It's a little silly to post 5e illustrations and say 'look! it's just like BG because this is D&D!'

There are a good number of people that didn't get attached to BG just because it was D&D, either.

Joined: Sep 2017
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
I think you misread: The illustrations were to show that the game does not use the character designs of DoS games, not to claim it´s BG, tho. Two different discussions here.



Originally Posted by _Vic_
Originally Posted by Daniel213
Originally Posted by flick40
Quit blaming Larian, Wizards of the Coast green lighted this as well. Every developer has their "style". This is Larian's. Deal with it and play the game or sit down and play something else.


There are artists and then there are one-trick ponies who don't have the skill to even make diverse art. And the latter work at Larian, where every game looks the same. If you want to see a game studio that knows how to diversify their art direction, look at CDPR, for example. I wish they'd attempted BG3, but they're busy with the next holy grail of gaming currently.


I´m not going to say anything about the name ( pointless debate ever) but if we´re talking about artwork, the character, creature and armour/weapons design in the game are almost exactly the same as in the official artbooks of D&D from WotC.

Just google it.



Originally Posted by _Vic_


[Spoiler]
[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]


I sometimes wonder if people do know how D&D5E´s creatures, uniforms and the city of Baldur´s gate actually look like before making comparisons...




[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]





Joined: May 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: May 2020
Originally Posted by Annyliese
It's worth noting that D&D illustrations have changed the look of things en masse over the course of the editions. It's a little silly to post 5e illustrations and say 'look! it's just like BG because this is D&D!'

There are a good number of people that didn't get attached to BG just because it was D&D, either.


The license is for 5e and the models look like 5e illustrations. Not sure why you would expect something different.

Joined: Aug 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2020
Originally Posted by Dulany67
Originally Posted by Annyliese
It's worth noting that D&D illustrations have changed the look of things en masse over the course of the editions. It's a little silly to post 5e illustrations and say 'look! it's just like BG because this is D&D!'

There are a good number of people that didn't get attached to BG just because it was D&D, either.


The license is for 5e and the models look like 5e illustrations. Not sure why you would expect something different.


? I didn't say I did expect something different.

Joined: Feb 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Feb 2020
Originally Posted by Dragon_Master
There are a series of questions I ask over on the Steam forums every single time someone says BG3 is DOS3.

1. How many action points does it take to move?
2. How many action points does it take to attack?
3. How many rounds of cooldown would you need to wait before you can cast a fireball spell a second time?
4. Where in Rivellon is the city of Baldur's Gate located?
5. Who has access to Source in the Forgotten Realms?

Every single time I ask these questions I'm either insulted or they double down and never make any attempt to answer any of the questions. The answers are very basic and simple. No action points to move or attack because D&D 5E, and BG3 don't use action points whereas DOS does, there are no cool-down rounds for using spells and abilities, only spell slots, Rivellon is not the Forgotten Realms and Source is not a thing.

Of course, answering these questions always disproves the very premise that BG3 is DOS3 so no one ever answers them when they're also saying BG3 is DOS.


I don't necessarily agree.

The first three questions could be just a matter of using an updated rules system. Case in point, Icewind Dale 1 uses an adapted Advanced 2nd Edition rules, while Icewind Dale 2 uses D&D 3rd Edition rules. Both are very different editions of D&D; one uses THAC0, the other doesn't. One has race/class restrictions, the other doesnt. One has different XP/Level advancement per class, the other doesn't. I could go on, and list every difference between the rules systems, but yet it still FEELS like a continuation of the Icewind Dale series.

The last two questions could just be a matter of reskinning/refluffing; i.e. renaming city X to match Y setting. Or renaming ability or power X to fit in with Y setting.

The fact is, there are many who are of the opinion that BG3 doesn't FEEL like a continuation of BG; And this isn't necessarily about graphics. For example, I personally find that Pillars of Eternity I & II evoke the feeling of BG I & II more than than BG3 does.

Joined: Aug 2020
Location: USA
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2020
Location: USA
Originally Posted by AnonySimon
The fact is, there are many who are of the opinion that BG3 doesn't FEEL like a continuation of BG; And this isn't necessarily about graphics. For example, I personally find that Pillars of Eternity I & II evoke the feeling of BG I & II more than than BG3 does.


The real honest truth is....none of us can truly argue either way on that, because what we 'know' right now is only a very small slice of the Act 1 experience. We know nothing of the full storyline tie-in to the first two games they have planned through and by the end of the fully released game. If you instead mean contextually about the engine/UI aside from graphics, then unless they add some kind of 'UI flavor' from the original games a bit by the end, then no, its not going to feel like BG1/2...but they've stated pretty openly they never intended to, and why. You can take just the basic statement Swen has stated a couple of times: "We want to innovate in the RPG genre"....or if you want a deeper dive, you can go back and refresh yourself on things stated in certain points in these 2 articles (ironically both involving Adam Smith for the pertinent comments):

https://wccftech.com/baldurs-gate-3-pax-east-interview-listening-to-fan-feedback-adding-raytracing/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/baldurs-gate-3-writer-take-21600314

Certainly that doesn't mean everyone has to like or agree with it either, I think they're very aware and understand the other side of the coin there - just saying, they made their decision about what they were doing in terms of continuing/building on the engine and 'getting as close to PNP D&D as possible' approach they had built to date coming out of DOS2, to then start fresh with BG3 rather than being shackled to the gamestyle/gameplay of the prior games. At the same time they're moving forward with a different playstyle however, if you stay open to it....there are many times both in these two articles and in others as well where its clear that they definitely want to keep the ties and the nostalgia from the first two games and the events/characters from them alive in the new one.

Ultimately, we all have to wait and see what reality unfolds once we've had a month or two into final release to really have informed opinions either way though.

Last edited by Tyndaleon; 01/09/20 02:45 AM.

“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”---Dale Carnegie.
Joined: Sep 2017
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
... And it´s also not very fruitful discussing about the feelings or what the word "Baldur´s gate" conjure up in each person.

Feelings about games are like noses: Everybody has their own ( besides Voldemort, I think).

Not even in each person. Sometimes it happened to me to dislike some game, book or a movie and come back months later and enjoy it. It simply wasn´t the right time or the right state of mind.


Joined: May 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: May 2020
Originally Posted by AnonySimon
Originally Posted by Dragon_Master
There are a series of questions I ask over on the Steam forums every single time someone says BG3 is DOS3.

1. How many action points does it take to move?
2. How many action points does it take to attack?
3. How many rounds of cooldown would you need to wait before you can cast a fireball spell a second time?
4. Where in Rivellon is the city of Baldur's Gate located?
5. Who has access to Source in the Forgotten Realms?

Every single time I ask these questions I'm either insulted or they double down and never make any attempt to answer any of the questions. The answers are very basic and simple. No action points to move or attack because D&D 5E, and BG3 don't use action points whereas DOS does, there are no cool-down rounds for using spells and abilities, only spell slots, Rivellon is not the Forgotten Realms and Source is not a thing.

Of course, answering these questions always disproves the very premise that BG3 is DOS3 so no one ever answers them when they're also saying BG3 is DOS.


I don't necessarily agree.

The first three questions could be just a matter of using an updated rules system. Case in point, Icewind Dale 1 uses an adapted Advanced 2nd Edition rules, while Icewind Dale 2 uses D&D 3rd Edition rules. Both are very different editions of D&D; one uses THAC0, the other doesn't. One has race/class restrictions, the other doesnt. One has different XP/Level advancement per class, the other doesn't. I could go on, and list every difference between the rules systems, but yet it still FEELS like a continuation of the Icewind Dale series.

The last two questions could just be a matter of reskinning/refluffing; i.e. renaming city X to match Y setting. Or renaming ability or power X to fit in with Y setting.

The fact is, there are many who are of the opinion that BG3 doesn't FEEL like a continuation of BG; And this isn't necessarily about graphics. For example, I personally find that Pillars of Eternity I & II evoke the feeling of BG I & II more than than BG3 does.


And therein lies the point. Different games have different systems, and D&D itself has evolved over the years as well to be different.

My questions are designed to stab the heart of the issue of whether or not a game is or is not the same as another game. They tackle game-mechanics, lore, setting, characters, level-design.

Between Dragon Commander, The Dragon Knight Saga, Divinity: Original Sin and Original Sin 2, they all take place in Rivellon and the lore is roughly the same but the mechanics are completely different between them. However, a lot of the people I ask these questions to are saying that BG3 is DOS3, or a clone of DOS2. Between Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2 they kept the action points and power skills, which anyone could do as they wished, whereas the Baldur's Gate games, the Icewind Dale games, and the upcoming Baldur's Gate 3 all are based on an already existing game with set rules and mechanics, setting, lore and characters.

The two are as different as night and day.

For that same reason, people over on the Steam forums actually make the argument since it's not Inifinity Engine and AD&D 2E as well as TB, it can't be a Baldur's Gate game, and they reject the evolution of D&D over the past twenty years while also defending Icewind Dale 1 and 2, despite them both using separate mechanics as you yourself pointed out.

My questions tend to draw out people's double-standards for what is and is not a Baldur's Gate game and they aren't even designed to do it. I first asked them in good faith to someone on the Steam forums because someone was saying there was absolutely no differences between DOS2 and BG3. Their reaction inspired me to ask these questions every time I see someone conflate the two games because they never, ever answer them. They'll give reasons for not answering them, or they'll insult me and double down on their original take, but no one who has said so has yet been able to answer me in good-faith how they are similar beyond a few aesthetics and TB combat, and even then they will not admit that the mechanics for how TB combat works can be different between games.

One person even made the claim that there is no difference in combat between DOS and Pokemon because they're both TB.

So, I'm quite comfortable continually asking these questions because I feel they cut into the heart of the matter, and a person cannot answer them in good faith while also saying DOS2 and BG3 are the same.


"I used my last magic poo to check in on my daughter." Scanlan Shorthalt.
Joined: Jan 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Jan 2020
What carries over from D:OS games is primarily the MP/Co-op game architecture and focus, which remains in BG3. What carries over from the IE BG games is primarily the name and setting. The 5e rules aren't particularly similar to either game, though closer to the IE games.

I guess if you really don't like the D:OS game Co-op architecture, it will seem to override any similarity to the IE games.


Joined: Aug 2020
Location: USA
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2020
Location: USA
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Not even in each person. Sometimes it happened to me to dislike some game, book or a movie and come back months later and enjoy it. It simply wasn´t the right time or the right state of mind.


This is an outstanding point....and there's kind of an inherent level of maturity and experience that has to go along with that in order for it to manifest itself too. There's a metric ton of people in the world today who are just conditioned to be jaded and closed minded about things, and in many cases, for all time....once they build that wall or slam that door, that's it - there's no going back.

But you can often surprise yourself - if you dare to have an open enough mind to do so.


“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”---Dale Carnegie.
Joined: Aug 2020
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Aug 2020
It would not sell as well without the name. So that's a no from me.

Joined: Aug 2014
T
member
Offline
member
T
Joined: Aug 2014
There is this theory that reality isnt real but a construct of each individuals mind. I dont know how true that is but this thread would be a good example as evidence for that.

I cannot understand how people disagree when people say "BG3 looks like DOS2" when it so clearly does. The reason why is because Larian use the same network of tools to create the BG3 as they did with DOS2. And I dont have a problem with that, it would be a huge waste of time and resources to create new tools when the tools they have works perfectly fine for the job. But to deny this is the case because DOS doesnt have the same combat system as 5e D&D is mindblowing to me. This is like saying "IWD1 doesnt look like IWD2" because they used two different editions of D&D.

Joined: Feb 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Feb 2020
Originally Posted by Torque
There is this theory that reality isnt real but a construct of each individuals mind. I dont know how true that is but this thread would be a good example as evidence for that.

I cannot understand how people disagree when people say "BG3 looks like DOS2" when it so clearly does. The reason why is because Larian use the same network of tools to create the BG3 as they did with DOS2. And I dont have a problem with that, it would be a huge waste of time and resources to create new tools when the tools they have works perfectly fine for the job. But to deny this is the case because DOS doesnt have the same combat system as 5e D&D is mindblowing to me. This is like saying "IWD1 doesnt look like IWD2" because they used two different editions of D&D.


My viewpoint exactly. To me, BG3 looks like a D&D game, just not one that looks like it belongs to the BG collection. This could probably be solved by: A) modifying the user interface to look more similar to BG 1&2, and B) Reusing some of the classic symbols used in the older games (such as the casting symbol, etc). Ofcourse, when it comes to video games, I am not a fan of extreme tactical combat; if I was, I would play Fire Emblem or Chess. Whenever I play BG1-2, IWD 1-2, PoE 1-2, etc. I choose to mostly only control my own character and let AI take control of the other 5 party members (The AI in IWD 2 was amazing; it had like 8 choices per class, and they all worked as advertised). Because BG3 is going to be turn-based (with likely no option for RTwP), I imagine combat will involve me controlling my character and then pressing 'skip', 'unpause', or 'end turn' 3 separate times, but we'll see.

Page 5 of 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 17 18

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5