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Originally Posted by Freekster
Can't we just enjoy this as a game on it's own rather than overzealously comparing it to it's predecessors? I fear the die-hard Baldur's Gate fans will downvote BG3 into oblivion because it may not fully align with what they expect from a Baldur's Gate game.
Larian Studios is currently the biggest(?) studio that creates RPG's like this at the moment and toppling this studio just because BG3 isn't close enough to it's predecessors will only hurt the genre as a whole.

The only reason I bought and even came across games like Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder: Kingmaker is because DoS lured me into the genre and I can imagine a whole bunch of people bought those games with a similar backstory as mine.
I would say the successes these games brought is something this genre desperately needed, as it's not just Larian Studios profiting from it but other studios as well and this opens up the possibility of new studios popping up to create games in this genre because of it's successes.

I'm not saying that the entire genre dies out if Baldur's Gate 3 fails to deliver, but it certainly doesn't help as we're not exactly swamped with choices in this genre in the first place.

This situation is in a way comparable to how the Zelda games evolved from NES to current-gen, even if I don't enjoy the newer games as much as I did the one's on (S)NES, they're still good games on their own and rightfully so have earned their stripes.


Fear not, this game will be a massive success.

It carries the name of one of the most important franchises in crpg and probably has the biggest budget in IE-like games, so naturally expectations are high.

Last edited by IrenicusBG3; 13/09/20 03:21 AM.
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I imagine Dragon Age 3 possibly had the highest budget of any IE-like games. I hate that game so much.

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With the cinematics and scope of BG3 I imagine it can be higher, although Bioware may not be the wisest in managing finances.

I was not even considering DAI an IE-like game grin

Last edited by IrenicusBG3; 13/09/20 03:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
I imagine Dragon Age 3 possibly had the highest budget of any IE-like games. I hate that game so much.


Not sure anyone consider Dragon Age as a IE-like game anymore since 2011 (release of DA2)

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Warlocke
I imagine Dragon Age 3 possibly had the highest budget of any IE-like games. I hate that game so much.


Not sure anyone consider Dragon Age as a IE-like game anymore since 2011 (release of DA2)


Yeah, they have strayed pretty far, but the essence is still there. Custom protagonist in a party based epic fantasy RPG that mixes (ostensibly) tactical combat with a player driven narrative experience. DA has a bit of an identity crisis where it is trying to appeal as both a tactics game and an action game, and in my opinion ends up being a poor demonstration of both. That and I feel modern BioWare RPGs are more about your companions than they are about the actual story, which wouldn’t be so bad but for me not liking most of the party members.

Still, I would still considers the series in the same lineage. Bloated and inbred, but related.

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Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
With the cinematics and scope of BG3 I imagine it can be higher, although Bioware may not be the wisest in managing finances.

I was not even considering DAI an IE-like game grin


Its not. Dragon Age is more of a predecessor to games like The Witcher.

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That's personal opinion. I certainly consider Dragon Age to be very much a part of this genre, and I love the DA games, even DA2. And DA:I sold over 10 million copies.

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Originally Posted by Torque
Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
With the cinematics and scope of BG3 I imagine it can be higher, although Bioware may not be the wisest in managing finances.

I was not even considering DAI an IE-like game grin


Its not. Dragon Age is more of a predecessor to games like The Witcher.


The first Witcher game came out in 2007. Dragon Age Origins was 2009.

Witcher games are single character action RPGs. DA and IE games are party based RTwP games.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
That's personal opinion. I certainly consider Dragon Age to be very much a part of this genre, and I love the DA games, even DA2. And DA:I sold over 10 million copies.


With you on that one. DA games are definitely an evolution of the formula, and by the developers of BG to boot. Even if many don’t like the direction they took with it, it seems weird to suggest it somehow doesn’t count in discussions about the genre.

I like them too, but I do have criticisms about Inquisition in particular. More about quests and world design than mechanics though.

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Originally Posted by Dagless
Originally Posted by kanisatha
That's personal opinion. I certainly consider Dragon Age to be very much a part of this genre, and I love the DA games, even DA2. And DA:I sold over 10 million copies.


With you on that one. DA games are definitely an evolution of the formula, and by the developers of BG to boot. Even if many don’t like the direction they took with it, it seems weird to suggest it somehow doesn’t count in discussions about the genre.

I like them too, but I do have criticisms about Inquisition in particular. More about quests and world design than mechanics though.

Oh sure. I have my own criticisms too. In DA:I, their need to fill the space of an open world with something resulted in far too many pointless trash fights. But overall, I still liked the game, still replay it, and am looking forward to DA4.

Last edited by kanisatha; 14/09/20 01:35 AM.
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I disagree with the concern that this will backfire. I think there are plenty of old school Baldur's Gate fans (like myself) who understand that this is an entirely different game and love it for that. If I want to play BG 1 and 2 I can go do that. I'm super excited to play 3 for the style it is. Variety is a win! And as an old school player who's been following the BG story (including playing the Descent Into Avernus bridge between BG2 and BG3) im extremely excited to continue the story!

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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Torque
Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
With the cinematics and scope of BG3 I imagine it can be higher, although Bioware may not be the wisest in managing finances.

I was not even considering DAI an IE-like game grin


Its not. Dragon Age is more of a predecessor to games like The Witcher.


The first Witcher game came out in 2007. Dragon Age Origins was 2009.

Witcher games are single character action RPGs. DA and IE games are party based RTwP games.



Really? I stand corrected, why do I feel like DA is like an oldschool game.

But I would still maintain those games are within the same subgenre which is distinct from IE inspired games.

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Originally Posted by Torque


Really? I stand corrected, why do I feel like DA is like an oldschool game.

But I would still maintain those games are within the same subgenre which is distinct from IE inspired games.


It still is old school in my opinion, it still came out over 10 years ago. And while it was perhaps an 'in the spirit of' evolution game into 3D from the old IE engine games, I too agree there's a distinct separation in my mind between those and what DA represents.


“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”---Dale Carnegie.
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Originally Posted by Tyndaleon
Originally Posted by Torque


Really? I stand corrected, why do I feel like DA is like an oldschool game.

But I would still maintain those games are within the same subgenre which is distinct from IE inspired games.


It still is old school in my opinion, it still came out over 10 years ago. And while it was perhaps an 'in the spirit of' evolution game into 3D from the old IE engine games, I too agree there's a distinct separation in my mind between those and what DA represents.

If a game being 3rd person instead of isometric or having modern 3D graphics makes it distinctly different from the IE games, then that means BG3 itself is distinctly different from the IE games.

The DA games are story-focused, single-player, party-based, high-fantasy cRPGs. They are in every way a part of the same genre as the IE games, just simply newer.

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Originally Posted by Tyndaleon
Originally Posted by Imryll
Ah, but could the reality compare with my childhood memories (a different sort of lens)?


Haha, so true! If you've never watched the movie 'Indian Summer' (excellent underrated movie from the early 90's, has Kevin Pollack, Bill Paxton, Diane Lane & Alan Arkin amongst others), do yourself a favor and find/rent it on Amazon or something. General premise is adults who go back and spend a week at the summer camp they grew up attending, and my favorite scene in that movie is when Kevin Pollack's character along with one of the female characters return to this lake with a 'dam', and Pollack just keeps going on and on and on (an on) about how "tiny" it all is, he doesn't remember it being so "tiny" etc etc....the female char just unloads on him finally and is like 'The dam is not smaller, ok?! Its the same size it always was!! *YOU* have grown up and gotten larger - deal with it!" laugh


Thanks for the movie tip! It sounds like one to keep in mind. smile

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Eh...I'd argue that as subjective perspective though from a holistic view, not one in which either angle of view is necessarily right or wrong - the DA games have both similarities and differences to what came before them. While there may be stylistic carry overs intended in gameplay and basic constructs in the DA games, you're still dealing with a completely different game engine, IP/content set in a completely different fantasy universe, etc. As Dagless said before, it's more of an evolution to what came before.

To your last point in the first line, I also wouldn't argue that BG3 isn't different to varying degrees depending on the contextual angle of approach, from the IE games as it relates to game mechanics, because of course it is going to be compared to the older games on that measure alone just simply due to the fact that it will be a modern game using a true D&D turn based rules based implementation (or as close as they can get to it).


“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”---Dale Carnegie.
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Originally Posted by Imryll


Thanks for the movie tip! It sounds like one to keep in mind. smile


You're quite welcome - I've always felt it was one of those 'lesser known/underappreciated' movie gems.


“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”---Dale Carnegie.
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I under stand both sides of the argument but you guys have to remeber that the ORIGINAL baldurs gate 3 which was called Baldurs gate 3 the black hound had nothing to do with the bhaal spawn what so ever in the saga you can check out screen shots and some other small tid bits from it.

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Originally Posted by TreverJohansen
I under stand both sides of the argument but you guys have to remeber that the ORIGINAL baldurs gate 3 which was called Baldurs gate 3 the black hound had nothing to do with the bhaal spawn what so ever in the saga you can check out screen shots and some other small tid bits from it.


Screenshot, really ?
Can you please show us what you're talking about because I can't find anything else than artwork / concept art (or whatever the name)
I'm really interrested smile

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate_III:_The_Black_Hound

He didn't say anything about artwork, he's just making the point that the 'connecting tissue' as it relates to the story framework has far more depth in terms of Larian's BG3 than the original ideaology in Black Hound....or so I'm assuming.


“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”---Dale Carnegie.
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