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Hawke Offline OP
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from the last news!

Originally posted by Larian:
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Will companions be interchangeable during long rest?
Yes, at the start of your adventure your recruited companions will be at camp when not in the adventuring party, and can be swapped in and out at camp. Just like friends in real life! After the first act however you are going to have to commit, also just like in real life.


I love this game until today, but losing the ability to change your party after act 1 means I will not spend any money on it! Because it means you only have effectively 3 companions which is a joke compared to every single party-based CRPG I have ever played: you guys said you listen to feedback so I really doubt anyone thinks this is good so please post here to make sure Larian changes this ASAP!

Losing party after act 1 was hated by everyone in DOS2 and no other RPG ever did it because it means the player loses the choice to build the right party for each encounter, meaning the game losing depth!


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I’m totally okay with it. 😁

In Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2 I didn’t swap out characters, either. I had one team that could deal with anything.

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Honestly, I don't think this is a huge deal. I don't like the idea that they are reclycing 80% of DOS2 into BG3, but this one is ok.

It can lead to interesting narratives and reinforces that companions may have their own agenda (or die) and are not awaiting for you the whole time. It is more believable and make your playthrough more unique each time.

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Yea, this isn't an issue for me. I'm not sure if I've ever changed out party members once I got my starting squad together. DoS2, kept all the same companions. Even old games like Chrono Trigger I kept all the same companions except when forced to have a different one. Especially for a D&D game it makes it feel more like a P&P session to me since it normal to have the same companions for the whole game.

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I like the idea of commiting. It will be a tuff call for sure, especially if they add more companions. But it will offer a good challenge to select a party for 2 long acts afterwards. Adds lots of replayability in my opinion.

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I'm still waiting until I play to decide but I'm also worried by this. In BG2 I changed companions all the time. Pick up one for the sphere, another for the temple quest, trade him out for the druid grove, kick them out for the ranger cabin . . .

I'm hoping it's BG like where you can move between maps freely and not DOS2 like where each maps was tied to a portion of the game. If we are locked into a sequence that takes away from replay value

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Originally Posted by Nyanko
I like the idea of commiting. It will be a tuff call for sure, especially if they add more companions. But it will offer a good challenge to select a party for 2 long acts afterwards. Adds lots of replayability in my opinion.


Especially tough call if whomever we don’t picks gets ceramorphosisized into a mind flayer. That will be pretty metal.



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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Nyanko
I like the idea of commiting. It will be a tuff call for sure, especially if they add more companions. But it will offer a good challenge to select a party for 2 long acts afterwards. Adds lots of replayability in my opinion.


Especially tough call if whomever we don’t picks gets ceramorphosisized into a mind flayer. That will be pretty metal.




That's actually a good thing. It creates potential nemesis for the rest of the plot. You might end up fighting people you knew and liked at the beginning of the game.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I'm still waiting until I play to decide but I'm also worried by this. In BG2 I changed companions all the time. Pick up one for the sphere, another for the temple quest, trade him out for the druid grove, kick them out for the ranger cabin . . .

I'm hoping it's BG like where you can move between maps freely and not DOS2 like where each maps was tied to a portion of the game. If we are locked into a sequence that takes away from replay value


Yes, map structure and no D/N cycle is what is killing for me.

It looks from the story that act 1 will be "linear" in the sense there is not much reason to come back. I imagine Act 2 will be Baldur's Gate and I really hope it is huge with a lot of backtracking and travelling between places.

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I think it's a little ridiculous to limit the player that much, so I'm hoping that maybe it's a misunderstanding. What if I end up finding a member annoying and obnoxious? The update also said that characters would have relationships with each other too - does choosing your three to take with you just override all of that? Perhaps it's story related? In BG2 you were locked into your party once you hit the Underdark... of course once you came back out you could swap people around if you wanted.

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Originally Posted by CandrianIllborne
What if I end up finding a member annoying and obnoxious?

I think that's why we get a chapter to explore them. Like many here I am fine with it - I prefer to choose my party as stay with it. Swapping, equipping and managing characters I don't use outside required quests is just detium. Ideally game is about choices and game reacting to it, and hopefully our choice of companions will be impactful as well - in skill and tools at our disposals but story beats NPC reactions and narratives archs as well.

Another question is, if it is necessary. It all depends if they have something cool in mind for characters who won't join you. In D:OS2 they were mostly unexistend outside one story beat - if BG3 would expand on it (like a lot lot) that could be cool.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by CandrianIllborne
What if I end up finding a member annoying and obnoxious?

I think that's why we get a chapter to explore them. Like many here I am fine with it - I prefer to choose my party as stay with it. Swapping, equipping and managing characters I don't use outside required quests is just detium. Ideally game is about choices and game reacting to it, and hopefully our choice of companions will be impactful as well - in skill and tools at our disposals but story beats NPC reactions and narratives archs as well.

Another question is, if it is necessary. It all depends if they have something cool in mind for characters who won't join you. In D:OS2 they were mostly unexistend outside one story beat - if BG3 would expand on it (like a lot lot) that could be cool.



But it's only a chapter. Is it that the characters don't develop at all after the first chapter? What about the potential of party balance? Does that just not matter and I'm stuck with obnoxious characters because otherwise I'd have 3 rogues and a wizard? It paints the player into a corner. I'm not sure I agree or understand when you say that the game is about choices when this is clearly something that removes a lot of that choice and flexibility. I'm fine with the party size being smaller, but with the fewer companions in general and now we're locked into just 3 of them after the first act... I dunno, that worries me.

And yeah it's potentially a story reason. I suppose it's all a matter of wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Hawke
from the last news!

Originally posted by Larian:
Quote
Will companions be interchangeable during long rest?
Yes, at the start of your adventure your recruited companions will be at camp when not in the adventuring party, and can be swapped in and out at camp. Just like friends in real life! After the first act however you are going to have to commit, also just like in real life.


I love this game until today, but losing the ability to change your party after act 1 means I will not spend any money on it! Because it means you only have effectively 3 companions which is a joke compared to every single party-based CRPG I have ever played: you guys said you listen to feedback so I really doubt anyone thinks this is good so please post here to make sure Larian changes this ASAP!

Losing party after act 1 was hated by everyone in DOS2 and no other RPG ever did it because it means the player loses the choice to build the right party for each encounter, meaning the game losing depth!

Totally agree with you, and for exactly the same reasons. I also believe very strongly that in a party-based game, party composition flexibility is a critical aspect of it. This takes away player choice, and completely flies in the face of Larian's claims that they are all about player choice. And for those of you for whom this is not a concern because you like to limit yourself in terms of your party composition, you can play your game that way anyways. So those of us who like having party composition choice having this in the game takes nothing away from you.

I too am shocked by this. Seems like hubris on Larian's part thinking that gamers everywhere believe Larian got everything perfectly right in D:OS2, so any and all features from that game that don't contradict D&D 5e should be automatically included in this game.

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Originally Posted by CandrianIllborne
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by CandrianIllborne
What if I end up finding a member annoying and obnoxious?

I think that's why we get a chapter to explore them. Like many here I am fine with it - I prefer to choose my party as stay with it. Swapping, equipping and managing characters I don't use outside required quests is just detium. Ideally game is about choices and game reacting to it, and hopefully our choice of companions will be impactful as well - in skill and tools at our disposals but story beats NPC reactions and narratives archs as well.

Another question is, if it is necessary. It all depends if they have something cool in mind for characters who won't join you. In D:OS2 they were mostly unexistend outside one story beat - if BG3 would expand on it (like a lot lot) that could be cool.



But it's only a chapter. Is it that the characters don't develop at all after the first chapter? What about the potential of party balance? Does that just not matter and I'm stuck with obnoxious characters because otherwise I'd have 3 rogues and a wizard? It paints the player into a corner. I'm not sure I agree or understand when you say that the game is about choices when this is clearly something that removes a lot of that choice and flexibility. I'm fine with the party size being smaller, but with the fewer companions in general and now we're locked into just 3 of them after the first act... I dunno, that worries me.

And yeah it's potentially a story reason. I suppose it's all a matter of wait and see.


What makes you think characters won’t develop after the first chapter? There is no evidence to indicate that.

You will have something like 20 to 30 hours to get to know your party members and find ones you like. If there is a gap in the party composition, 5E is very flexible, and with a multiclassing you could probably make any combination work.

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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by CandrianIllborne
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by CandrianIllborne
What if I end up finding a member annoying and obnoxious?

I think that's why we get a chapter to explore them. Like many here I am fine with it - I prefer to choose my party as stay with it. Swapping, equipping and managing characters I don't use outside required quests is just detium. Ideally game is about choices and game reacting to it, and hopefully our choice of companions will be impactful as well - in skill and tools at our disposals but story beats NPC reactions and narratives archs as well.

Another question is, if it is necessary. It all depends if they have something cool in mind for characters who won't join you. In D:OS2 they were mostly unexistend outside one story beat - if BG3 would expand on it (like a lot lot) that could be cool.



But it's only a chapter. Is it that the characters don't develop at all after the first chapter? What about the potential of party balance? Does that just not matter and I'm stuck with obnoxious characters because otherwise I'd have 3 rogues and a wizard? It paints the player into a corner. I'm not sure I agree or understand when you say that the game is about choices when this is clearly something that removes a lot of that choice and flexibility. I'm fine with the party size being smaller, but with the fewer companions in general and now we're locked into just 3 of them after the first act... I dunno, that worries me.

And yeah it's potentially a story reason. I suppose it's all a matter of wait and see.


What makes you think characters won’t develop after the first chapter? There is no evidence to indicate that.

You will have something like 20 to 30 hours to get to know your party members and find ones you like. If there is a gap in the party composition, 5E is very flexible, and with a multiclassing you could probably make any combination work.



I agree that 20-30 hours is a decent time to get to know a companion. However, that assumes that I'm spending all the time with only the 3 that I have chosen to spend time with from the very beginning and that I haven't experimented with anyone else.

I would expect the characters to change. In fact, that's my point. If this is the case, couldn't a character grow old and wear me down with their personality after awhile? What if we clash? What about conflicts with other characters like I had mentioned before? Will there simply be no major conflicts after the first act? Also, will there not be any new characters after the first act? That seems somewhat limiting and disappointing to me.

The story is making it out to sound like this is a desperate situation - surely this would change people, and would lead to depth in characters that I think we all would want to see. Is that depth not there?

One thing I liked about the original games it that there was a lot of depth in your companions. They could, for example, disagree with how you led the party and choose to leave. I thought that was a simple but effective way that helped to make your choices more meaningful. Does that not happen, if after the 1st act you're stuck with your main 3?

You make a good point about multiclassing. I've never played 5E.

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We will find out the answer to all these questions, eventually. They are good ones, so hopefully Larian is listening if they haven’t already thought up solutions.

Personally I don’t think I’ve ever had a companion in a game that I initially liked but eventually grew tired of, but that seems like a reasonable possibility.

We know that if nothing else you will be able to add custom characters, though that isn’t a sufficient substitution for most people. Hopefully the characters are all written well enough that none of this should be an issue.

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An important question is how thoroughly they prepared for various party combinations. Most CRPGs are extremely unforgiving if you can't pick locks - most locks don't have keys, breaking containers damages the treasure inside etc.. Most CRPGs are not at all kind to a party that doesn't have a cleric type - enemies or situations inflicting punishing status ailments to multiple party members on the assumption that the cleric can fix it, restrictions on rest, etc.. DOS2 was set up so that any character could play any role, so it wasn't a big deal if you preferred Red Prince or Beast, but if you don't like Astarion, you don't have a rogue (unless you are one, or force a multiclass that interferes with the progression of the class you actually wanted that person to take). I haven't played 5E, but the only ways I see in the PH to get proficiency in thieves' tools are a) be a rogue or b) take the criminal background. There is precisely one character with healing spells. In BG2 you were stuck with a particular grouping for a while, but there were numerous party members to fill every role. The rather strong impression I get is that the origin characters are it for companions. I won't call this a deal breaker, but it is somewhat concerning.

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My two most optimistic hopes were that some companions would be introduced later (for flavor! whether tadpole'd or not), and that we would be able to recruit all the companions and switch them out easily at camp, since I typically like to try out all the companions and combinations. For the latter, honestly I think it's enough to have that option for the first act. If you don't like where the story goes with the companions you commit to for the rest of the game... Maybe that's what a replay could be for, seeing what happens with the rest of them in later Acts?

If a companion I chose has a big conflict with my character later on, I'd consider that kind of interesting and not game-breaking. But I don't expect the kind of conflict that would result in a scripted character death or choose-this-person-over-that-one-or-else-I'm-gone situation outside of Act 1. That's not to say I don't think characters will develop or have conflicts, but maybe those specific dramatic conflicts would be established earlier on to avoid an empty spot in the party scenario (because if companions aren't alive or introduced in later acts, we can't really expect a BG2 Spellhold switch 'em out solution).

As for my first extremely optimistic wish... It was a long-shot anyway, and this storyline does lend itself to something preventing every single companion option from moving forward.

And we do know there will be more companions coming at full release. We can't say for certain that the current limited companions are the only ones we'll see for those respective classes.

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"just like in real life" ... ?

Common stages in modern real life might be high school, college, job #1, job #2, etc. As life goes on and we all wallow through the Mistshadow, I think people very often will part with some old friends, meet some new ones, etc. Reconnecting with an old friend is a special type of joy that could be used for story purposes.

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I have 2 concern about that.

The first is obviously that everything start the same AGAIN.
Big event in the world, every companions at the same place with the exact same problem, gathering and travelling together through the first act during which you solve the problem, then you go to the next map => cutscene => everyone "die" (probably turn into Mindflayer here) except your party.

I don't really know why Larian start anothet story like this but I really fear it because DoS2's story was very generic, un-immersive and not really interresting to me.
Hope BG3 will offer something a little bit more original.
(+ The DoS3 thing is arround us but let's try to forget about that)

The second thing is something we'll discover playing the game but I don't really understand how it will work after act one.
Are the relations between the party members frozen so they can't leave/disagree anymore ?

That said, "the idea" is not really a problem to me if that works because I'm not changing my companions during the game (except maybe during the first hours).



Last edited by Maximuuus; 24/09/20 04:29 AM.
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