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Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Madja] #675024
14/09/20 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyndaleon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate_III:_The_Black_Hound

He didn't say anything about artwork, he's just making the point that the 'connecting tissue' as it relates to the story framework has far more depth in terms of Larian's BG3 than the original ideaology in Black Hound....or so I'm assuming.


Sorry, I read something like "you can check out screen shots".
Maybe I missunderstood smile

I don't really think anyone was waiting a story that is the rest of the original story.

Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Maximuuus] #675025
14/09/20 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Tyndaleon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate_III:_The_Black_Hound

He didn't say anything about artwork, he's just making the point that the 'connecting tissue' as it relates to the story framework has far more depth in terms of Larian's BG3 than the original ideaology in Black Hound....or so I'm assuming.


Sorry, I read something like "you can check out screen shots".
Maybe I missunderstood smile

I don't really think anyone was waiting a story that is the rest of the original story.


I could have misunderstood as well, he did include that bit....but I took it to mean/interpret as more as the overall point of basically saying, the original design for some version of a BG3 has less ties by far to the first two games than what Larian is doing.


“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”---Dale Carnegie.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: TreverJohansen] #675032
14/09/20 08:43 PM
14/09/20 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TreverJohansen
I under stand both sides of the argument but you guys have to remeber that the ORIGINAL baldurs gate 3 which was called Baldurs gate 3 the black hound had nothing to do with the bhaal spawn what so ever in the saga you can check out screen shots and some other small tid bits from it.

Sure, but I also have to add here, that Black Hound was Baldur's Gate in name only - due to IP rights. It wasn't created or intended to be Baldur's Gate3
https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1234228179906134016

Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: kanisatha] #675037
14/09/20 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kanisatha

The DA games are story-focused, single-player, party-based, high-fantasy cRPGs. They are in every way a part of the same genre as the IE games, just simply newer.


Agreed, the key concept here being "story, single player, party and high fantasy". A game that checks all those boxes, no matter the camera style, is in the same genre as the IE games, in my opinion.

Last edited by Gt27mustang; 14/09/20 10:26 PM.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Gt27mustang] #675080
15/09/20 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
Originally Posted by kanisatha

The DA games are story-focused, single-player, party-based, high-fantasy cRPGs. They are in every way a part of the same genre as the IE games, just simply newer.


Agreed, the key concept here being "story, single player, party and high fantasy". A game that checks all those boxes, no matter the camera style, is in the same genre as the IE games, in my opinion.

Yup. These four plus combat system are the five boxes on my personal core criteria checklist. I have many more preferences and wants and likes, of course, but those are all very much secondary. These five are the ones that can potentially be dealbreakers for me if they're absent. A game doesn't have to check every one of those five boxes. But each box unchecked is a major strike against the game, and once you get to about three boxes unchecked, odds are against my being interested in that game.

Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Madja] #675749
24/09/20 09:16 AM
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I can say that personally, the game being called Baldur's Gate 3 has had a negative effect on my willingness to purchase it. I came in excited for a true successor to those games. I did not care if it did not continue the story of the previous games (that ended in Throne of Bhaal).

But from everything I've seen, this is not a Baldur's Gate game. So far it seems to recreate very little of what made those games what they were. What it appears to be is a very good D&D game. But that's not what the title promised me. Call it Baldur's Gate: Attack of the Brainsquids, but not "Baldur's Gate 3". If I knew nothing about this game, saw it for sale, and purchased it, I think I'd be very very disappointed.

Do we know why it's even called Baldur's Gate 3? Is it purely for name recognition? That I get, but why the "3"? Why not just "Baldur's Gate: Blah Blah Octopus Adventures"?

Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Sirick] #675751
24/09/20 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Sirick
I can say that personally, the game being called Baldur's Gate 3 has had a negative effect on my willingness to purchase it. I came in excited for a true successor to those games. I did not care if it did not continue the story of the previous games (that ended in Throne of Bhaal).

But from everything I've seen, this is not a Baldur's Gate game. So far it seems to recreate very little of what made those games what they were. What it appears to be is a very good D&D game. But that's not what the title promised me. Call it Baldur's Gate: Attack of the Brainsquids, but not "Baldur's Gate 3". If I knew nothing about this game, saw it for sale, and purchased it, I think I'd be very very disappointed.

Do we know why it's even called Baldur's Gate 3? Is it purely for name recognition? That I get, but why the "3"? Why not just "Baldur's Gate: Blah Blah Octopus Adventures"?


You should ask WotC. They are the ones who pushed the name I guess, as they were also the ones trusting in Larian to make it a successor to the original games.

Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Sirick] #675774
24/09/20 01:21 PM
24/09/20 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sirick


Do we know why it's even called Baldur's Gate 3? Is it purely for name recognition? That I get, but why the "3"? Why not just "Baldur's Gate: Blah Blah Octopus Adventures"?


Larian (and specifically Swen) has stated on numerous occasions that it will have several connections back to the story/plot of the first 2 and builds upon the events that took place therein, and specifically has said (paraphrasing because I don't have the exact quote in front of me at the moment), 'we wouldn't call it Baldur's gate 3 if it didn't connect to the previous games'.


“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”---Dale Carnegie.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Madja] #675776
24/09/20 01:33 PM
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It's very light because absolutely no one waited from BG3 that the story continue. These "connexions" looks like smoke to me because Bhaal IS not only what define what Baldur's Gate 1/2 SoA+ToB were.

I'm waiting to see because we don't really know atm about the story but everytime I hope something """like""" in the old BG, I'm dissapointed asz soon as they show a little bit more.

"The god of murder" and "D&D" is not enough to me to claim the 3.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 24/09/20 02:01 PM.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Sirick] #675779
24/09/20 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sirick
I can say that personally, the game being called Baldur's Gate 3 has had a negative effect on my willingness to purchase it. I came in excited for a true successor to those games. I did not care if it did not continue the story of the previous games (that ended in Throne of Bhaal).

But from everything I've seen, this is not a Baldur's Gate game. So far it seems to recreate very little of what made those games what they were. What it appears to be is a very good D&D game. But that's not what the title promised me. Call it Baldur's Gate: Attack of the Brainsquids, but not "Baldur's Gate 3". If I knew nothing about this game, saw it for sale, and purchased it, I think I'd be very very disappointed.

Do we know why it's even called Baldur's Gate 3? Is it purely for name recognition? That I get, but why the "3"? Why not just "Baldur's Gate: Blah Blah Octopus Adventures"?



This type of post is so hillarious. If your hesitation about the game is baes on the lore you cannot make an infomed opinion on the sucess or faliure of Larian to write a proper BG3 title.
If your hesitation is based on this game having different game mechnics, well... its a 20 year old title. Final Fantasy, Mario, Zelda, they all change mechanics over 20 years. Different decade, different DnD ruleset, different IP owner, different developer, sifferent game engine. It would be more weird if the game didnt change mechanics.

Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Skallewag] #675788
24/09/20 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Skallewag
Originally Posted by Sirick
I can say that personally, the game being called Baldur's Gate 3 has had a negative effect on my willingness to purchase it. I came in excited for a true successor to those games. I did not care if it did not continue the story of the previous games (that ended in Throne of Bhaal).

But from everything I've seen, this is not a Baldur's Gate game. So far it seems to recreate very little of what made those games what they were. What it appears to be is a very good D&D game. But that's not what the title promised me. Call it Baldur's Gate: Attack of the Brainsquids, but not "Baldur's Gate 3". If I knew nothing about this game, saw it for sale, and purchased it, I think I'd be very very disappointed.

Do we know why it's even called Baldur's Gate 3? Is it purely for name recognition? That I get, but why the "3"? Why not just "Baldur's Gate: Blah Blah Octopus Adventures"?



This type of post is so hillarious. If your hesitation about the game is baes on the lore you cannot make an infomed opinion on the sucess or faliure of Larian to write a proper BG3 title.
If your hesitation is based on this game having different game mechnics, well... its a 20 year old title. Final Fantasy, Mario, Zelda, they all change mechanics over 20 years. Different decade, different DnD ruleset, different IP owner, different developer, sifferent game engine. It would be more weird if the game didnt change mechanics.


A game can improve old mecanics, adapt new rules or even change things without becoming a total different game.

Please, can u try to name something that is not specifically related to D&D and to the FR that feels ""like"" BG in BG3 ?

And please, don't hide behind the "WoTC decided" argument. That's a fact but it changes nothing to the feelings of many players.
There are many ways to gather everyone but please, tell me why this kind of feeling is hillarious.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 24/09/20 03:12 PM.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Maximuuus] #675791
24/09/20 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus

Please, can u try to name something that is not specifically related to D&D and to the FR that feels ""like"" BG in BG3 ?


We are playing as a leader of an ensemble group of adventures in an epic fantasy, narrative driven, tactical combat RPG using D&D mechanics with a story mysteriously connected to at least one of the Dead Three and featuring the city Baldur’s Gate.

This is a synopsis for both BG1 and BG3. Good enough for me

Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Warlocke] #675792
24/09/20 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Maximuuus

Please, can u try to name something that is not specifically related to D&D and to the FR that feels ""like"" BG in BG3 ?


We are playing as a leader of an ensemble group of adventures in an epic fantasy, narrative driven, tactical combat RPG using D&D mechanics with a story mysteriously connected to at least one of the Dead Three and featuring the city Baldur’s Gate.

This is a synopsis for both BG1 and BG3. Good enough for me


Yea, I forgot to add not to talk about things that could apply to nearly every CRPGs smile

I'm glad it's good enough for you but that still don't leads me to feel BG in BG3. Any concrete exemple ?

Last edited by Maximuuus; 24/09/20 03:36 PM.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Madja] #675795
24/09/20 03:40 PM
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The game will have, according to Swen, several story elements directly linking BG3 to the past games. That’s pretty concrete.

I’m not sure what you are looking for that feels like the older games.

Setting is the same. General out of combat gameplay is the same. In combat gameplay is different, sure, but everything else seems pretty reminiscent to me.

Last edited by Warlocke; 24/09/20 03:42 PM.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Warlocke] #675796
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
The game will have, according to Swen, several story elements directly linking BG3 to the past games. That’s pretty concrete.


Not sure it's really concrete until we see what he's talking about.
I'll write it again... but Bhaal is not only what defined BG... (+ That's related to the FR... we're turning round if u don't keep what was said before in mind).

Last edited by Maximuuus; 24/09/20 03:51 PM.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Maximuuus] #675802
24/09/20 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Warlocke
The game will have, according to Swen, several story elements directly linking BG3 to the past games. That’s pretty concrete.


Not sure it's really concrete until we see what he's talking about.
I'll write it again... but Bhaal is not only what defined BG... (+ That's related to the FR... we're turning round if u don't keep what was said before in mind).


I saw that, but asking how this game should feel like its predecessors without permitting mention of most of the things that defined those games (the story, the setting, the rules) seems to me a bit of a rigged game.

Artistically both games are a match as much as possible, seeing BG1 and 2 were low resolution pixel games.

What more do you need?

Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Madja] #675817
24/09/20 05:07 PM
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What do we need? visual proof that this is something more than just DOS2 with an upgraded graphics engine. PR promises are not enough.

So far they have shown NOTHING that is reminiscent of any of the previous Baldur's Gate entries.

Being set in Forgotten Realms and featuring one of the canonical Forgotten Realms gods is not enough to make it a Baldur's Gate game if none of the actual "game" remains.

- no open world
- no late game party dynamics or changes
- no ai scripting or dynamic combat
- no day/night cycle
- no random encounters
- no meaningful alignment (as per WotC)
- ... I could go on.

Instead all we have been shown are improvements to the DOS2 parts of the game, and the pre-teen masturbation fodder.

This game gets worse and worse with every update, and it absolutely does not deserve the BG title. This is just "random D&D module made by Larian" as far as I am concerned.

Last edited by qhristoff; 24/09/20 05:09 PM.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Madja] #675821
24/09/20 05:42 PM
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Whatever is the title, this could be a good game and then an even better can follow.

This game won't be a "3" following BG 1 or 2, too many things have changed since. Trying to clone that after so long time, by completely different people, while just changing a few variables here and there (to keep it alike), would lead to a worse game than having the freedom to innovate and create a completely new version, keeping only those parts & references which can still fit here.

The Game of Thrones changed so much after season 1& 2, and less time have passed. Star Wars the same, and not a single game or movie could keep up with an initial "legendary" success, if that happened at initial parts. First Love happens once in a lifetime, never ever again. There is still joy after, but never the same. Good games are still made, and the new generation will start with these, and fall in love, like those old ones never existed.


Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Warlocke] #675826
24/09/20 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Warlocke
The game will have, according to Swen, several story elements directly linking BG3 to the past games. That’s pretty concrete.


Not sure it's really concrete until we see what he's talking about.
I'll write it again... but Bhaal is not only what defined BG... (+ That's related to the FR... we're turning round if u don't keep what was said before in mind).


I saw that, but asking how this game should feel like its predecessors without permitting mention of most of the things that defined those games (the story, the setting, the rules) seems to me a bit of a rigged game.

Artistically both games are a match as much as possible, seeing BG1 and 2 were low resolution pixel games.

What more do you need?


This is what's important to you and maybe what defined/feel BG to you.
That's fine but there are a lot of other things that defined the old video games and some of them are (more/as) important for lots of players that grew with the Baldur's Gate video games.

I'm glad you asked smile
Here are a few clue that are probably already mentionned here :

- the D/N cycle was an important part of the old games for many reasons
- the way you travel through maps was another important feature (especially in the 1st game)
- the party of 6
- BG1/2 was the story of the player, not the story of everyone (every origin characters).
- The inventory and the ammunition management was also a part.of it. Whatever you like staying for 30 Real Time minutes in front of a merchant or not, it was a part of the game.
- There were A LOT of companions you could meet everywhere
- The random encounters gave the feeling of.a.dangerous World

I could give more informations about all this, talk about many other things and share how.I imagine include those old.things in a New game but that's not the point.

Obviously, some of those old things absolutely need improvement or doesn't suit modern games but that were parts of the spirit of BG to me.

I'm absolutely sure that, as I said many things could still gather players arround those few "easy" exemples and I'll only focus on 1 thing atm (let's wait the EA for the others)

=> The stealth mecanics was very obscure to me in BG1/2 and it looks awesome in BG3.. Awesome but at the same time ridiculous to me... The shadow of a tree under the sun is not a place you can.hide...
Stealth in D&D looks to me like someone that is very discreet and.silent... not as someone.wearing a magical cloak of invisibilité that is a little bit less efficient under the daylight.

This would be absolutely awesome for everyone with a real D/N cycle and that D/N cycle could really increase the ambiant and the level of immersion of the game.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 24/09/20 06:13 PM.
Re: Better without the Baldur's Gate name? [Re: Madja] #675827
24/09/20 06:13 PM
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And for the record, I have to remind people of this, that despite my criticisms against this game being "Baldur's Gate 3" ... I still believe Larian wants to genuinely provide a top tier experience.

I just wish WotC hadn't pursued the cash grab.

We have the module BG: Descent Into Avernus so why not call this BG: Something Something.

I could understand if the city were the main character, but it is just the backdrop of the first two games, and is so far the same in BG3. I could understand if Bhaal is the main character again. But why be so tight lipped about it? There is no reason why they couldn't have used the resurrection of Bhaal (which is canon) as part of the PR to clearly link the two games together? In my estimation the only reason for secrecy is that there is no connection - because the events of the original trilogy are over, and ToB is already "BG3" - and that the links to the prior games are in FR setting and lore only, which means easter eggs and stuff we already know as fans of the series. So again, why the secrecy?

All we've been shown time after time are DOS2 systems and structures with more polish. The problem with wanting to "show more people their own formula of cRPG" is that their approach has become formulaic.

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