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Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Valraven] #580060
08/03/16 10:14 AM
08/03/16 10:14 AM
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Quote:
I am done with this game. I am not having fun at all because of the horrible "boss gets to go first and summons more creatures than you have members in your party, oh and he of course has ridiculous health and damage too and the rewards are shit too". EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME!!

That's why the big players of game industry track every step of you playing their games and simplify every single aspect of their so called AAA games that includes the risk to be uncomfortable or surprising for you, and why Larian Studios (by NOT doing so) save rpgs from being as trivial as toothbrushing.

Quote:
Why would you assume a cave with a river of blood and a big pile of bodies was safe? As a new player, why would I assume any new, hidden area I find is safe?


Yeah, it's pretty obvious. Why not facing the challenge and thinking of strategies to win this fight? And why expecting from a badass sourcerer to be fair? Charm his summons and have fun! Or spam summons yourself!
Divinity Original Sin would be a huge disappointment (as most games are) if it adapted the universal patterns of games designed by marketing research, not by creative people.


My mods for DOS 1 EE: FasterAnimations - QuietDay - Samaritan
Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Valraven] #580062
08/03/16 10:32 AM
08/03/16 10:32 AM
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Aenra Offline
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Goblin agrees. Dumb hoomans, fight without spirit aid.
Bang human skin drums, better percussion. Spirits always listen percussion. Very picky.


Pride, honour and purity
Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Abraxas*] #580072
08/03/16 03:02 PM
08/03/16 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Abraxas*
... simplify every single aspect of their so called AAA games ....
Name a few AAA games that are not challenging on their highest difficulty level? And how exactly is Larians way of adding high health and damage enemies different to what other gaming companies do? They all bloat the difficulty of their games with that!

Originally Posted By: Abraxas*
...
Yeah, it's pretty obvious. Why not facing the challenge and thinking of strategies to win this fight?[quote] Because I don't have fun with this game anymore. I defeated every boss up to that point in the game. And they all were not fun.

Stunlocking Bracchus to avoid him murdering everyone with his meteor shower was not fun. Using shokepoints and killing enemies one by one as they get to it in the Bracchus and the Dietrich fight wasn't fun.

Seeing 100 physical damage + 25 water damage from a bow being reduced to 8-10 damage against the Ice King because he gets healed by ALL elemental damage wasn't fun. Getting shitty 10000xp for that fight which is around 6% of the XP you need to level up at that point didn't help either.

And having to do the same shit again is not fun.

[quote=Abraxas*]... Charm his summons and have fun! Or spam summons yourself!
Divinity Original Sin would be a huge disappointment (as most games are) if it adapted the universal patterns of games designed by marketing research, not by creative people.
And if the Charm fails and the bull kills one of your characters in the following round, reload until you get lucky? Is that fun to you?

Originally Posted By: Abraxas*
..creative people

I cast Frozen Shard on him instead of talking to him. He gets frozen and immediately unfrozen again but at least he lost his first turn. No summons. Cast Magical Poison Dart on him. Combat log line reads:
Jareth of Homeforest took no damage.
I hit him with a stun arrow and a normal arrow: 388 damage less than 25% of his life.
A mage with more than 1500 health.
Use crushing fist on Jareth: Immune to knockdown. But only in the first round.
Blitz Bolt stuns him and my warrior. He is stunned for one round. My warrior for two. But that is normal because EVERY SINGLE ENEMY after level 10 or so is affected by conditions one turn less than the spell description says.

You are right. Very creative!

You know what would have been creative? A none combat solution like Mass Effect, one of those AAA titles you talked about above, managed to do. But that game was clearly written by marketing research.

The problem is not that I can't beat him. The problem is beating him is not fun!

Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Valraven] #580076
08/03/16 05:24 PM
08/03/16 05:24 PM
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If there is a problem, I don't think it's the fight difficulty per se. But perhaps Baidotr conditional and unexpected betrayal. When it's your first time it becomes a fight whose difficulty is VERY variable (Baidotr with or against you? Big difference!), and when it isn't... well... why would you pick Baidotr and level her up just to lose her?...

Does anybody know what happens if you win the fight? You just kill Baidotr and that's it?

Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Valraven] #580077
08/03/16 05:49 PM
08/03/16 05:49 PM
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Your posts indicate expectations this game does not sustain by its approach (I'm not speaking of good or bad here) and some kind of unwillingness to accept and use what it offers, expressed by words like 'shitty fight', 'fucking ranged attacks', 'rewards are shit' and 'every single fucking time'. Expectations like special rewards for doing something, crushing enemies on the first round(s) (which is, unfortunately, possible in almost every fight!), always being superior (i. a. quantitative), enemies having low resistance (so CC is always succesfull), low health and low damage values - less than you or equal - (which, unfortunately, is often the case), the game telling you explicitly that there is a boss fight in the blood cave, not having to reload sometimes or level up if a fight was too hard.

Some arguments have already been made, but to response to all your points:
Quote:
The gory bull gets to go right after being summoned and deals 59% of the max health of my fighter in two attacks in the first round.

Initiative allows you to go first. Control the bull. Don't expect to be succesfull on your first attempt. But your amount of APs should allow you to have several attempts.
Quote:
So first round the mage is dead. She was also the healer.

It's always a bad idea to rely on one single healing option, especially when having three or four party members that receive damage.
Quote:
summons more creatures than you have members in your party

As I already said: Why not summoning, too? It's a good idea to spend one point in Geo to be able to summon a spider, or Witchcraft for sceletons if you need support. 3 oder 4 members: up to 6 or 8 party members! + Charmed enemies! So 10 or 12 is theoretically possible. That's just one option.
Quote:
ridiculous health and damage

Damage can be hard: so control enemies and kill the strongest first. And speaking of health: 388 damage is more than 25% of his health (or did I get you wrong?). And one fourth with two arrows for a 'boss' enemy is quite much! And he's a source mage, not a philosopher wink
Quote:
Blitz Bolt stuns him and my warrior. He is stunned for one round. My warrior for two. But that is normal because EVERY SINGLE ENEMY after level 10 or so is affected by conditions one turn less than the spell description says.

If Blitz Bolt stuns both the mage and your warrior something went wrong.
The description might be wrong. Enemies get stronger. But so YOU do. It's possible to end statuses earlier if you have high bodybuilding and willpower. And there should be a talent.
Quote:
You know what would have been creative? A none combat solution like Mass Effect, one of those AAA titles you talked about above, managed to do. But that game was clearly written by marketing research.

And there ARE ways to avoid some fights, as Raze said. Not for this fight. Can be extended for roleplay purposes, I agree. At this point the game wants you to fight, or not to fight. You don't have to fight him, do you? And if you have to fight, because a quest wants you to fight, so fight the fight as the quest says.
Quote:
This is a single guy in a cave, not a giant skeleton with a burning skull that everyone told you is a tyrant. Why would I assume there is combat soon?? Try to see it from a new players point of view. You talk to someone and suddenly completely out of the blue you're in a fight you can not win.

As Raze said: there are tons of dead bodies, and blood everywhere. So...?

I can't agree with most of your points, although I don't think that combats are always designed well or the balancing cannot be better.

I remember Witcher 3 for not being a good game for its challenging fights, for example. The combat system allows you to fight enemies within a certain level frame (your level + a few levels above) easily, and sets artificial limits, so enemies you can fight (being close to your level) are generally easy if you got used to the mechanics. And Skyrim? I can't compare it for its broken balancing. Very easy on low difficulty, on higher difficulties absolutely weird relation of health and damage between you and your enemies if you level up (by alchemy, lockpicking or what else). Its difficulty comes from artificiality. - But that's not what I wanted to talk about.

Divinity Original Sin EE is more too easy than to difficult (even on highest difficulty), if we take 'difficulty' as the difference between the worst possible builds and player skills that are successful on a difficulty level - and the possible best (the greater the difference the easier the game). And some summons out of nowhere (which I don't like very much either) and some higher enemy HPs is neither impossible (or very difficult) to fight nor very artificial.

Your conclusion (done with this game) is quite hard, and in some points it does not seem to be fair. That's all I wanted to say.


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Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Abraxas*] #580211
12/03/16 07:44 PM
12/03/16 07:44 PM
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I am going to repeat myself: "The problem is not that I can't beat him. The problem is beating him is not fun!"

I have charm. I have summons. And I used them so many times that it's not fun anymore. It's repetetive. I wonder if you can beat every fight without charm and summons.

Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Valraven] #580212
12/03/16 08:34 PM
12/03/16 08:34 PM
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Have you tried some other options? I use summons quite often to support my party (especially when playing two lone wolves) but I don't think there is a need to use them. There are very good possibilities to control crowd and/or finish most of the enemies quickly, so you don't need summons. Static clouds are a very devil thing. Icewalls can both protect you and freeze a couple of enemies. Rain, water bombs, water arrows on enemies, and some electrics. Fire Master skills in combination with poison. Healing options: zombie + high fire resistance on armor and fire resistance spell (or something similar to reach 100+) + (optional) life leech - attack your party and enemies with poison and fire: dead enemies and your party on full life. Two handed or dual wielded warrior with crafted and boosted weapons + damage buffs from witchcraft and man at arms skills: crushes everything. Summoning all the time can be tedious, I agree. But I don't see a need for many or for any summons and charming spells.


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Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Abraxas*] #580224
13/03/16 11:06 AM
13/03/16 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: Abraxas*
... But I don't see a need for many or for any summons and charming spells.
What you absolutely need is a way to completely remove certain enemies from the fight. Stun, summon or charm are ways to do that. But you HAVE TO DO IT! A cyclops bonecrusher will just murder your mages in one round unless you remove him from the fight for a few rounds.
If you don't remove the bull from the Jareth fight, meaning prevent him from attacking your characters, it will destroy you. There is no choice here. You HAVE to do it.


Click to reveal..
The same with death knights. The first group of three death knights I could defeat because I got lucky. The one who has destroy summon acted last. So all where blocked by Nick.

But the second group the one with destroy summons acts first. He kills the summons walks over to where my group is and hits my warrior for 50% of her max health. And then the other two join in and first round half my group is dead.

Even worse was the fight against Grutilda. Game over in the first round!!! She transforms, kills Jahrl, battering rams to my group and rages and still has enough AP to attack three times in a row. Killing my warrior and the healer both source hunters. Bam. Game over in one round. It's pure luck to survive the first round. And that is shit.


Last edited by Blablabla; 13/03/16 11:08 AM.
Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Valraven] #582026
05/05/16 03:10 AM
05/05/16 03:10 AM
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I just beat him in one turn at level 14 before he could even do anything, after many many unsuccessful attempts. I was worried about the level difference because he was level 15 and the difference between levels is very noticeable in this game, but I sent in Madora to use Flurry, she critted on 3 of the hits and that took out most of his health. When he tried to run past her to the middle to summon his lil friends, an attack of opportunity arose and he died. This obviously may not OHKO him like it did for me (critical chance is the only reason it worked) but it'll put a big dent in his health regardless. Hope this helps!

Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Blablabla] #582036
05/05/16 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Blablabla
But that is normal because EVERY SINGLE ENEMY after level 10 or so is affected by conditions one turn less than the spell description says
Walk it off talent ? You can take it too.
I am quite curious how people could complain. There are 4 difficulty levels. And you could tune it down suits your needs. (well if you are not heroic)

For me I have complain too. Combat is easy. Computer moves are childish. Enemies tend to jog over fire and burn themselves, tend to attack you by element witch heals you, enemies tend to attack closest enemy so they they could be fooled to waste time on summon decoy instead of mage, and so on and so forth. Simply pathetic combat.

So my friend Blabla, choose explorer difficulty and have fun. I have bigger issue than you, no current difficulty is enough tough. e.g. I cant enjoy a game at all :-/ What should I do ?

Originally Posted By: Abraxas*

Divinity Original Sin would be a huge disappointment (as most games are) if it adapted the universal patterns of games designed by marketing research, not by creative people.
+1 Internets.

Last edited by gGeo; 05/05/16 02:36 PM.
Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Blablabla] #582039
05/05/16 03:56 PM
05/05/16 03:56 PM
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If you spent as much time as you do whining about this Awesome better than any game I've ever played game,as lets say on perhaps creating different or better character builds to ENJOY the game with then maybe you would appreciate what awe-inspiring and thoughtful development technique was put into creating this priceless gem,and instead praise Larian for allowing a feeble mind such as yours to be graced by an enigmatic source of entertainment. Picture this.....I (whom is spinning this web of praise towards the development team),cannot even play Divinity right now!!!!! Due to a technical problem I am experiencing, however;minus my initial contact with them you DO NOT!!! hear of me whining and caterwauling because I cannot PLAY THE GAME which is a far more serious problem than an overpowered battle in a fantasy RPG, dude seriously quit being a girl unless you are one...HA!!! and just appreciate what the developers have done for you thus far, and STOP b@!$#ing!!!

Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Blablabla] #582040
05/05/16 04:03 PM
05/05/16 04:03 PM
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If you spent as much time as you do whining about this Awesome better than any game I've ever played game,as lets say on perhaps creating different or better character builds to ENJOY the game with then maybe you would appreciate what awe-inspiring and thoughtful development technique was put into creating this priceless gem,and instead praise Larian for allowing a feeble mind such as yours to be graced by an enigmatic source of entertainment. Picture this.....I (whom is spinning this web of praise towards the development team),cannot even play Divinity right now!!!!! Due to a technical problem I am experiencing, however;minus my initial contact with them you DO NOT!!! hear of me whining and caterwauling because I cannot PLAY THE GAME which is a far more serious problem than an overpowered battle in a fantasy RPG, dude seriously quit being a girl unless you are one...HA!!! and just appreciate what the developers have done for you thus far, and STOP b@!$#ing!!!

Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Valraven] #671930
16/08/20 08:40 PM
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Just went through this fight for the first time. Got smashed (much like my first try against Braccus Rex).
I don't mind getting crushed in battle, but the fact that I will lose one of my chosen characters with what was essentially no buildup... I like death and tough choices, but damn this one was just poorly done. I guess I will be cheesing this fight because I'm not prepared to cripple my party by "randomly" losing one of my strongest party members.

Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair [Re: Valraven] #676172
28/09/20 03:22 AM
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Just hit Jareth on my first playthrough and was severely disappointment to lose my damage powerhouse character to an unbeatable defection! With my party at 75% the encounter was severely overtuned - I'm not a guide-reading min-maxer. I could kill Jareth and might have had a slim chance at an overall win, but once I saw that Jareth's death didn't bring Bearface McArrow back to my side I just triggered combat without talking to him and beat the encounter fairly easily. Tips: the summons can be killed with Destroy Summon, and using scrolls to dump your own summons on the battlefield allows you to burst him down fairly quickly.

My residual complaint is that this approach does not allow me to finish Balty's questline, and indeed she still gushes about her former mentor as we stood on top of his body. It feels either sloppy (broken quest) or insanely unfair (defection). My immersion is temporarily frustrated, as my party member mowed down her former mentor/father without noticing he died, and then continued whistling on her way.

Overall still a great game, but this part could use tweaks to either make defection part of dialog choices (instead of personality traits) and hint at the consequences. Also, add some recognition of killing Jareth (e.g. having Bairdotr mention that she was mourning him but understood that he was evil).

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