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Joined: Oct 2020
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When I cast the ice cantrip it shouldn't leave an icy area that causes tripping, and the same with the fire cantrip.

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I just had my Web spell made useless because I had cast firebolt on an enemy the turn before. Was a real downer frown

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I'd say that for cantrips at least, you should be able to target a person for direct damage, or target the ground to deal no damage, but create a surface... but you should not be able to damage a target AND create a surface under them with a cantrip with one attack.

Also, if you're going to keep Firebolt as dealing 1d6 damage and setting a target on fire for 1d4, it should tick exactly once and then extinguish - not lingering on for multiple turns. Because it's a cantrip.


I'd have less objection to higher level spells creating surfaces because at least they consume resources.

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Main reason I say this is because Divinity original sin 2 gets overboard with aoe on the ground, and becomes obnoxious. I think toning it down early can help prevent it from becoming that later imo

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I agree, cantrip creating surface mean that you have surfaces again in every combat.
Burning damage are also way too high. As stabbey said, it would be way better if you only have damages once.

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Cantrips are weak spells - could mainly be issue at lower level of the game? I mean that are they striving for some balance here that will become more obvious at higher levels?
I’m not defending the implementation just wondering why it’s been done this way

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Yeah - i think making the distinction between cantrips and higher level spells is useful here. Or even just single target spells and areas of effect. A single target firebolt can certainly cause flammable objects to catch alight - but you need to target the object with the spell and not something standing on the object. But a firebolt hitting regular soil? That should just leave a patch of sooty soil.

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Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cantrips are weak spells - could mainly be issue at lower level of the game? I mean that are they striving for some balance here that will become more obvious at higher levels?
I’m not defending the implementation just wondering why it’s been done this way


Cantrips should scale at higher levels to match the multi-weapon attacks other classes get (level 5, 11 & 17 in P&P).

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Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cantrips are weak spells - could mainly be issue at lower level of the game? I mean that are they striving for some balance here that will become more obvious at higher levels?
I’m not defending the implementation just wondering why it’s been done this way


Cantrips will outdamage your level1 spell slots after few levels in PnP. That is by design, cantrips are the thing magic are supposed to use as bread and butter of damage.

That being said, the time surfaces linger should also scale, like 1 turn on level 1, 2 turns on level 5, 3 on level 11 etc. currently main problem is that surfaces from cantrips linger for too long

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
I'd say that for cantrips at least, you should be able to target a person for direct damage, or target the ground to deal no damage, but create a surface... but you should not be able to damage a target AND create a surface under them with a cantrip with one attack.

Also, if you're going to keep Firebolt as dealing 1d6 damage and setting a target on fire for 1d4, it should tick exactly once and then extinguish - not lingering on for multiple turns. Because it's a cantrip.


I'd have less objection to higher level spells creating surfaces because at least they consume resources.


I agree with all of this. Just wanted to put my voice in the conversation.


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Ending most battles standing in every damaging surface and cloud known to science ain't fun. Makes things a hassle. It also does not fit in d&d.

There are already many 5e spells that have sustained aoe-effects, be it for CC or damage. We don't need another layer of effects on top of that.

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I agree with Skarphald so much in his above post. There are so many ways for the classes to deal with things, aoe, cc. Having barrels of oil, puddles of acid, all that stuff already there to be used, just takes any tactics out of fights. It also takes away from the uniqueness of the classes. You dont have to think of a way to deal with the situation, its already been put there for you. An interactive environment is great up to a point, but too much of it just gets repetitive and not really fun.

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Originally Posted by Skarpharald
Ending most battles standing in every damaging surface and cloud known to science ain't fun. Makes things a hassle. It also does not fit in d&d.

There are already many 5e spells that have sustained aoe-effects, be it for CC or damage. We don't need another layer of effects on top of that.


I'm at a point where I try to avoid creating new surfaces as much as possible, because I hate how inconvenient they make looting and exploration of the area.

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Originally Posted by Daniel213
Originally Posted by Skarpharald
Ending most battles standing in every damaging surface and cloud known to science ain't fun. Makes things a hassle. It also does not fit in d&d.

There are already many 5e spells that have sustained aoe-effects, be it for CC or damage. We don't need another layer of effects on top of that.


I'm at a point where I try to avoid creating new surfaces as much as possible, because I hate how inconvenient they make looting and exploration of the area.


Me too - I'm also hesitant to use spells because its just a ball-ache to have to deal with the surfaces. This isn't DOS, please take it easy with surfaces. Check the D&D source material and stick to that.




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+1

DnD not DOS please

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Originally Posted by noxioustaco
+1

DnD not DOS please


Agree. All this pools on the ground, and the fire. It's so annoying. Every random potion that a goblin throws at you leaves you in a pool of something, just like DOS, I hate it. Just make it like D&D.

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One of the biggest problems with Divinity-like elemental surface effects is the lack of protection against them. In D:OS, having physical/magical armor negated the damage and effects. In Baldur's Gate 3, and in D&D in general, there's no such automatic protection. This makes the abundance of elemental/surface effects extremely frustrating. Shoot a Ray of Frost in a minor fight? Your melee fighters slip and fall down. And gods help if you end up in electrified water or steam cloud.

I don't want all of the surface effects gone, just heavily toned down. If I shoot a fireball, I can accept that the ground will be burning for some time. And if I throw a bottle of oil to make a puddle, I want it to ignite when targeted with Fire Bolt. But having Fire Bolt set everything on fire is just wrong, and way too powerful for a cantrip.

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Agreed. I understand wanting to use their Divinity surface tech, but reserve it for spells where it makes sense (e.g., Wall of Fire). Or even add new spells for that express purpose if you really want, but please not cantrips. Let it be something you specifically choose to set up, not something that is incidentally happening whenever your wizard casts an elemental spell. Playing a melee character in DOS2 means wading through hell every turn, and it will be even worse here since you can't grab Phoenix Dive/Backlash so easily. The fighter making 20 foot long jumps every turn is not an ideal solution.


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