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Let me tell you a story of woe. On turn 1 I cast firebolt with my wizard. On turn two I cast Web, and the entire web was destroyed. I know that the Web spell does have this in 5e, but because of this lingering effect, the spell is essentially ruined. If we could remove this effect on cantrips, I feel like it would empower other higher level spells further down the line.

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Reducing firebolt to d6 damage and giving it a DoT seems so backwards, too. The whole point of firebolt is that it's a powerful cantrip with no other bells or whistles, with a commonly resisted damage type. It shouldn't be outdamaged by shocking grasp.

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+1

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Ray of Frost, targeting a person, not a surface, still creates a surface under the character anyway, and can knock them prone instantly, which means they lose half their movement and melee attacks have advantage against them. That's super-powerful for a cantrip.

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enthusiast
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Yes cantrips appear to be a bit overdone

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stranger
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At the very least the duration should be just one round, maybe scale like the damage scales (5th for 2, 11th for 3)

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+1

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Ray of Frost, targeting a person, not a surface, still creates a surface under the character anyway, and can knock them prone instantly, which means they lose half their movement and melee attacks have advantage against them. That's super-powerful for a cantrip.



Never created a single surface for me.

Last edited by Dark_Ansem; 07/10/20 10:27 AM.
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Originally Posted by Tarorn
Yes cantrips appear to be a bit overdone


Cantrips seem way more powerful then they should be both mechanically and visually imo.
If they want flashy cantrips they should just make the visual effect scale with cantrip leveling. Makes it look stronger as the game goes on. That way it dosnt overshadow all the other spells which take slots.

As for the secondary effects. Why not have an alternative casting pop-up for the spell. You can do the basic normal cantrip as written in 5e, or choose the secondary effect. Eg: Ray of frost targeting the ground and not a person causes the ice on the floor. Tho on second thoughts even that is kinda to strong, however it would prevent unintended spell effect interactions if you so choose.

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I did have the dot effect and the ice surface from cantrips. (I Iced a skeleton in the crypt and it created a ice sheet below him which he fell from). I can understand if you are house ruling it, but maybe make the dot and ice slick only on crit? Also I agree firebolt should be d10, but if they changed the spell to a DOT spell, I can understand it being less.

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I think it should ignite surfaces not create one. Same for the glacial. They could still apply burn and chill to target though.

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I would say "please remove surface effects unless the original spell/ability in 5e explicitly states it creates a surface effect." Example: Fireball says it ignites things, Sleet Storm says it freezes the ground, etc.

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Originally Posted by porrage
I would say "please remove surface effects unless the original spell/ability in 5e explicitly states it creates a surface effect." Example: Fireball says it ignites things, Sleet Storm says it freezes the ground, etc.

But even then, Fireball doesn't result in PCs taking a status effect that makes their HP continue to drop, I get the idea but the mechanics of D&D aren't really setup to handle it, PCs have too few HP at the start of a campaign.

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There are literally cantrips that do create surface effects, and even they're noted as not being used to harm people (control flames/water etc)

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+1. Cantrips are supposed to be weak. They should have no "surface" interaction.

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Originally Posted by blindhamster
Originally Posted by porrage
I would say "please remove surface effects unless the original spell/ability in 5e explicitly states it creates a surface effect." Example: Fireball says it ignites things, Sleet Storm says it freezes the ground, etc.

But even then, Fireball doesn't result in PCs taking a status effect that makes their HP continue to drop, I get the idea but the mechanics of D&D aren't really setup to handle it, PCs have too few HP at the start of a campaign.



I'll agree with that. Fireball was designed to be a huge blast of damage. There are other effects/spells for dealing sustained damage.

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Agreed. I'm constantly wondering what the hell should I do with my wizard in minor fights that doesn't fuck up my melee characters. If I use Fire Bolt or Ray of Frost, my own frontline starts burning or falls down. Not at all how those cantrips work in 5th ed.

Also:
Quote
A missile from Gale missed Barton.
Barton received Condition: Burning.
Barton was hit for 4 Fire damage.
Barton burned to ashes.


Gale rolled a natural 1 (a critical miss) on a Fire Bolt cantrip, and... killed his target? Riiiight.

Last edited by Mythago; 07/10/20 03:45 PM.
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Cantrips should be as written in the 5e rules. Spells in general should be. They cover any situation you want and you should be able to choose your own unique toolkit. Want sustained damage? Use cloud of daggers. Want big aoe? Use fireball. Want X choose Y. The spell selection covers anything you want, including surfaces. Your choices hence matter with 5e rules.

Right now the player choice matters less. You are a surface-mancer.

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Agreed: There are specific spells in D&D that (can) effect surfaces... they really should leave it at that.

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stranger
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Honestly I have to say I prefer these ones. The 5th edition cantrips are intensely boring to me and at least these ones do something additional to make them a bit more interesting.

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