Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Don't confuse special snowflake with intreasting

In fairness mind you Baldur's gate has always made you special. I mean in BG1 &2 you where the son of a dead god.

I was under the impression that the current NPCs we have were it for the companion/origin PCs. If that's not the case, they've managed to do the impossible in the gaming industry and kept it firmly under their hats.

Z.

That's a good point. If someone is in trouble with some demon from hell chasing after him, it would be nice to see it happen and not just know it happened in the past because you were told about it in camp.

Iapparently there are more they're working on and I can't belive a game that calls itself Baldur's gate wouldn't have more

How exactly can you call any of the companions "snow flakes"? They have all survived a horrific mind flayer encounter, and have been kicking butt since, esp Astarion, the Lestat expy, who actually managed to ambush you.

Wrong definition of snowflake. You're thinking of the stupid insult a certain class of people use. In this context "special snowflake" is meant to denote that the character in question is super unique and special in a way that feels contrived and over the top.

I really wonder whether people saying that Baldur's Gate didn't have "special" companions actually played it.

Granted, in Baldur's Gate 1 (not counting Beamdog's take on it), companions weren't special: they were basically blank slate henchmen with very little personality or background, other than how you got to know them and what little personal quest they had.

But Baldur's Gate 2 greatly enriched companions, and all of them, even the "good" / nice ones, had at least *something* about them that made them somewhat 'complex', and therefore interesting:

Keldorn had trouble with the family he neglected.
Nalia was a rich privileged noblewoman unable to really understand those she was claiming to help.
Anomen with his inferior complex was an insufferable prick almost the entire time.
Imoen had been traumatized by what Irenicus had done to her.
Aerie had been traumatized via her broken wings.
Valygar had an ugly family curse to deal with.

Maybe re-evaluate. BG2 was already a *lot* more complex in writing than BG1 ever was, and it made the whole experience much more rewarding. I don't find any of the current BG3 companions 'special snowflakes' based on their plot alone:
- Lae'Zel: Just a Githyanki killing Mindflayers. Maybe a little more dedicated to the job than her kin.
- Wyl: Your average Warlock. Seriously, read the PHB if you're not convinced that warlocks can enter their pact for all sorts of reasons, especially the wrong ones.
- Shadowheart: Shar Cleric, being secretive and on a secret mission. Colour me unsurprised.
- Gale: A wizard who bit off much more than he can chew. Wow! I've never heard THAT one before!!!
- Astarion's basically the only one where I would say things become slightly 'unheard of' - mixing Vampire spawn condition with what a tadpole can do to you: new ground, at least for me.

What actually makes BG3's companions 'special' is their personalities and the way they are written and performed. And I love every single one of them. It's a whole new level in the BG series obviously, but also easily on par and above compared to what Bioware had to offer back when they were making RPGs.

Lae'Zel is brainwashed by her kin so that purification mean killng and she don't know this.
Wyl a typical warlock.
Shadowheart often we got priest on "secret mission" in rpg games so nothign special.
Gale why he is eating magic items?! How he chew a magic plate armor?
Astarion probebly searching way to immortality because he is interesting in necromancy and he got wampire powers.

Ah, you mean an angsty Mary Sue

They don't actually have to be angsty. For instance you could have a "mighty paragon" paladin who has been personally blessed by her god to be the ultimate slayer of demons. But yes they're a Mary Sue, specifically in the sense that they're actively meant to be more awesome than anyone and the story bends around them to emphasize that awesomeness in a way that feels like the writer is trying too hard. It's not just them being super good or gifted at what they do.

I dont feel you assesment of the BG1 cast is accurate though. Basicly every single one of them is a 'snowflake' by your metrics as well; but you dont go into that if you oversimplify them.

-Imoen 'just' beeing a Bhaalspawn for example. Ah yes, because most of the people that I know are the children of literal gods. Are you kidding me?
-Khalid and Jaheira beeing Harpers is also pretty much a big thing. You dont see it ingame but the Harpers are a major political faction, and theyre quite well known Harpers at that. In BG2 that also bites Jaheira in the ass. I wont spoil why if people havent seen that yet (go play BG1 and BG2 Enhanced editions. They are still very good games and worth it!)
-Minsc is more of a joke character and not that outerworldy. If you ignore his monstrous strength and the fact that he has beserk rage, which at the dnd edition that the games were made off made him unique. Or if you ignore Boo. And you shouldnt. Boo is awesome!
-Montaron and Xzar. You think some of the characters in BG III are obviously evil? They dont come even close to these 2 unhinged maniacs.

Lets go into some more characters though for good measure:
-Viconia. A female drow. On the surface world. Yeah no special secret or whatnot but this alone makes her an rarity. And she also doesent seem to want to kill every man she meets (even though she does think them inferior) which also makes somewhat of a rarity in drow society. Yeah nothing special to see here
-Branwen. When you find her she has literally been petrified for god knows how long and she comes from some far off culture. Shes no living bomb but an oddity on the sword coast just the same. Her different tongue compared to the locals is kinda funny.
-Edwin. Powerfull red wizard of Thay. Nothing that special about him, to be fair, if you want ignore just how powerfull he can be in BG II.
-Xan. An Elf from from some politcal faction (cant recall) send to investigate the Nashkel mines. Has a Moonblade. A fricking Moonblade. When you find him hes like lvl 2 or lvl 3. Sure, mages dont WANT to be in melee but how many people do you find who have literal legendary magical weapons just on their person?


While I agree that Laian makes their characters.... Unique in some other manners its not like the cast of BG1 and BG2 were the avarage folk either. Some were major parties in local political factions, had ungodly high stats (like minsc, if you take into consideration that a S of 10 is avarage he has a nasty punch!), were offspring of gods or otherwise had powerfull connections/artifacts that mark them as very exceptional individuals.

I could go over BG II companions as well if you wish by OP only mentioned BG I for comparison.

TLDR: BG1's companions most defenitly were not bland and stale. Alot had backstories or remarkable gear that set them apart from normal indivuals. Sure, not all of them were living bombs or whatnot but by BG 1's metrics they arent that remarkable imo. Your (likely) party in BG 1's early game was made of 2 god spawns. 2 harpers and 1 or 2 other individuals who were quite remarkable in their own way.

Coming off of a CRPG where you have a Depressed Dwarf Cleric of an Unmaker god finding out he has magic fists to end masterpieces and artefacts, an Actually Immortal Chosen by the Goddess of the Undead Elf, an Ex-Paladin who’s made it onto the personal shit list of her former god, the Greatest Explorer the World has ever known and won’t let you forget it, an Actual Fallen Deva who’s working for your enemy, A Barbarian with a sword bigger than she is, Two Former Slaves who are the Chosen of the God of Magic AND the Goddess of Vengeance, and A pair of Twins with Asmodeus’ Right Hand Man for a Dad who’re the practical joke of A DIFFERENT GOD OF MAGIC on said father:

The companions in this game are a refreshing breath of air. Also, those companions above are really well written and interesting part of a 120 hour campaign, so uh, you can boil any character concept down to the point of bad taste if you navel gaze hard enough.

TL:DR: I’ve enjoyed characters with a lot more snow than these 5.

You skip her story?
She was exiled from Underdark so she run to surface world where she meet Flamign Fist members who want kill her, and you rescure her in Baldur's Gate 1. She have every one because that is drow nature they have this because they was teach to live in that way.
In Baldur's Gate 2 she is even mroe interesting. You again rescure her from beeing burned by viligers and paladins. She told you story what how she start living in house after leaving your party and how she wasa buried alive and raped. She is very tragic character and have lots of wounds make by her own kind and humans.

I think what has happened is what happens to a lot of us when we create our own characters.. We tend to fall in love with them and want them to be cool and special.

It feels like the developers have created some characters they really enjoy and want them all to be the main player in the story and this is bad for us..
It's like going to a table top game and the DM is controlling all of the other characters in the party and worse, they'd rather have you play one of their pre-made characters
rather than you creating your own character. That's a major control freak right there and they are not fun to game with.

In BG1 and 2 you could easily go through the game with your own pre-created full party and not feel like you missed out on much of anything. (bg1 more than 2)
The companions add flavor but aren't necessary. Even Imoen can be easily left behind and she's a part of the plot in 2. In BG1 and 2 this was our characters story.. BG3 feels too much like they are trying to make it their characters story.

I agree with the point made about 'over the top' character design. But you're arguing against yourself by applying it to the BG3 companions. They literally have 1 thing to them that sets them apart from a generic NPC.

If you want the companions to have side quests then you have to lay the foundations for it somehow.

More grounded characters don't have to be "bland and stale", though... and as far as the most commonly picked party members in BG1 go: Neither do you find out that Imoen is a good spawn until the next game, it also has no bearing on the story that Kalid and Jahira are Harpers, or that Minsc and Daenahir are a Rashemi berserker and witch, respectively. As far as BG1's story is concearned, they are just your normal, low level adventuring party. The characters in BG3? Not so much... they are so frontloaded with special, game influencing traits, that the party most likely would implode in the first few evenings of any tabletop campaign.

I don't see these people are special snowflakes.
We have a charming rogue who is suave and sophisticated, also it turns out he happens to be a vampire. Being a vampire is kind of a big deal, but he doesn't want it to define him.
We have a world weary wizard full of knowledge and weird stories, does he has unusual dietary requirements? So what.
There is a cranky cleric with a secret, and a strange name, I haven't been partying with her.
The Githyanki is a Githyanki, it defines her because she's Githyanki, what do you want here?

They have a thing, having a thing isn't bad. Being a vampire isn't actually much different than "from a place you can't go."

The people comparing it to DAO, though, is funny. What are the aspects of those characters? Leliana and Zevron are from a place. Wynn is old. Oghran is a Dwarf. Alistair is royalty, which is a major plot point more than a character aspect, otherwise he's part of the same order as you. Morigan is an Apostate. These are not terribly deep quirks.

I think what this is missing is the relatable one. Imoen was the one you grew up with. Alistair was the most recent Grey Warden before you. You share something and can talk about it without having to work on it. You share something with everyone in BG3 but the link is more of a goal than something to chat about light heartedly.

Lol.

Not really, you could have voice sets that have plot dialogue and side quests attached to them and then create your own character and attach the voice set to it and come away with a companion character that feels tied to the plot but that you created.

It really doesn't take much fleshing out for folks to fall in love with companions. Think about MInsc in BG1. He has like 24 spoken lines and a hamster that says "squeak" if you touch it.. and after you rescue Dynaheir his little side quest is over. You can completely dump them after that if you want but for some reason you've already fallen in love with him and want to keep him around for the rest of the journey. Doesn't take much at all. .You don't need extremely fleshed out characters because your imagination fills in the blanks. They aren't giving us any blanks to fill because all these characters are designed to use as the main character. Origin characters might have been great for DOS but this is D&D which is built on creativity and using your imagination to build your own characters story.

Exactly... you want to have those super flashed out origin characters in your game? Fine. Then at least give us the option to maybe recruit a couple of other characters that aren't like that, or let us create hirelings or sidekicks like in POT.