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journeyman
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Minsc1122
Is it really necessary for the characters to stop in one place, when I click on any ability in exploration mode?

In combat I understand, but when I explore it is a bit strange.
I think, that it would be nice if we could just give the commands more dynamically.

Clicking on portrait and casting buff is also something, that is not working.

Not exactly related to the topic at hand, but... Isn't like a general D&D rule that spell can't ever be casted in movement?


In BG3 or DOS2 you have to stop doing anything else when you click spell icon, or when you click the jump icon.

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Yup. Controls are clunky.

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I wholeheartedly agree with this post. It is probably the most annoying thing about this game at this point AND it is baffling to me they bothered coding this elaborate and cumbersome dragging method instead of a simple follow toggle key. At the start I was actually thinking you can't select characters by clicking the portraits at the lower left area because it required such a fast click to not drag the portraits that I was not able to change characters from there. If you drag a portrait even a tiny bit it will not switch to that character. Also kinda weird that you cant target abilities through portraits on as far as I could tell, although I may have only tried on the portraits in the initiative queue.

What i've done outside peaceful areas like the Druid grove, is to simply have all my characters not following each other and simply have my hand on number keys for characters and literally give move orders individually. It's far from ideal but a little LESS cumbersome than having follow on.

I have not read the full thread so someone might have already suggested these simple fixes that I would do.

1. Follow toggle key that enables/disables the full party follow. Hold down that toggle key and press the key or keys you have single party members bound to (in my case number keys) to toggle follow for those only. Additionally holding down follow key and clicking on portraits should do the same thing.

2.Give us a classic drag select and click method with formations.

I'd prefer having both options, especially if they implement WASD movement which I'm surprised wasn't in yet.

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Yeah it is really cumbersome, especially as one wrong click (exit sneaking) can turn all efforts to ashes. The results are pretty awful. As a slight workaround you can enter turn-based mode at any time to set-up and then initiate combat when everyone is in position. This is still time-consuming and clunky, though.

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In addition to the "toggle follow key" and "drag select" suggestion, I think that a great benefit would be a formation key as alternative to the default blob that's far more susceptible to the pathfinding's whims.

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Tuco Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Gnopi
In addition to the "toggle follow key" and "drag select" suggestion, I think that a great benefit would be a formation key as alternative to the default blob that's far more susceptible to the pathfinding's whims.


So basically the very same BG2/PoE/Pathfinder system inspired by RTS that we all are asking for.
It already does all these things rather intuitively. Larian's system is a textbook case of a "solution" in search of a problem to solve that never existed.

Last edited by Tuco; 11/10/20 10:39 AM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
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+1
I agree, maybe making a party formation option or better pathing will help.

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Party management is a mess in and of itself, try re-arranging the portraits. Yeah good luck, want to slot in #4 into #2? Not happening. Gotta disconnect the person from the party and THEN slot them into #2.

Clicking a party members portrait to select them? Gods. I tent to click on a party member and hit the 1 key to use potion for healing, half the time it doesnt select the person. I've had a couple instances where I had to double back and realize the character wasn't selected and its a bit annoying. Why clicking the portrait doesn't register as a selection more often than not is both clunky and annoying. F1-F4 options are nice to select, but they should be options not a requirement to have it be responsive.

I never understood why click drag selection didn't exist in DOS1 or DOS2, and that its absent in BG3 is even more confusing.

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Tuco Offline OP
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Originally Posted by blazerules
Party management is a mess in and of itself, try re-arranging the portraits. Yeah good luck, want to slot in #4 into #2? Not happening. Gotta disconnect the person from the party and THEN slot them into #2.

Clicking a party members portrait to select them? Gods. I tent to click on a party member and hit the 1 key to use potion for healing, half the time it doesnt select the person. I've had a couple instances where I had to double back and realize the character wasn't selected and its a bit annoying. Why clicking the portrait doesn't register as a selection more often than not is both clunky and annoying. F1-F4 options are nice to select, but they should be options not a requirement to have it be responsive.

I never understood why click drag selection didn't exist in DOS1 or DOS2, and that its absent in BG3 is even more confusing.
Barely related, but god if they didn't manage to make even the "initiative queue" look way more confusing than it should have any right to be.





Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
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Tuco Offline OP
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A little bump just to say that I'm playing this EA build over and over and since I started this thread I also started paying attention to terrain conformation and so on to check if at any point anything suggests the "classic party control would be unfeasible for this game for technical reasons".
The answer so far is: not really, not at all.

The only parts of the game where the classic RTS control scheme would be a bit clumsy for the terrain available and it would be required more minute controls are the same where that same awkwardness applies to the Larian chain/unchain system.
I also noticed that even games SO FOCUSED ON A SINGLE CHARACTER CONTROL as the two (excellent) Shogun Shadow Tactics/Desperados 3 still manage group movement/selection closer to Baldur's Gate/Pathfinder than what Larian is doing.

Last edited by Tuco; 12/10/20 11:01 AM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
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Totally agree with the OP, I was going to feedback on this too. I do love the strategy of moving single characters but the default auto-run of a sub group is not working.

E.G I move a character to jump an obstacle - then the other start running around and trigger enemies!

Also when moving a party of four, if you need to jump make it so they then all follow suit and jump the same way. Currently you have to break up the group, then individually jump then rejoin them = very fiddly and tedious.

Thank you smile

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Originally Posted by UnderworldHades
I kind of like it, but honestly its not that great when combat is about to start. Party members just don't stick close enough


it happens that you start combat and half of your group isnt joining the combat. they show up in the rotation but the game skips them.
you have to manually control them so they get close enough to join combat.


He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster
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+1 Fully agree on that.

A thing nobody pointed out is what happens when you need to have the whole party jump. First one jumps, ok, second one jumps and first one goes nearby even if there is fire or vines; you move them away, have the third jump and first two come near, crossing again the vines. Going out from Zorru house in groove was a real pain, not to speak of the window of the burning house where you find the wife of the guy you saved in the inn.

Someone mentioned DAO, but i dont remember having problems moving the party there, or at least having that many problems.

+1 also mentioning that you cannot cast a spell to a party member using the icons; it's out of range ok tell me that, but having to mouseover everyone to cast an healing spell because the icon shows he's wounded is annoying, and in all similar games i played you can cast to the icon

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Originally Posted by Agi
+1 Fully agree on that.

A thing nobody pointed out is what happens when you need to have the whole party jump. First one jumps, ok, second one jumps and first one goes nearby even if there is fire or vines; you move them away, have the third jump and first two come near, crossing again the vines. Going out from Zorru house in groove was a real pain, not to speak of the window of the burning house where you find the wife of the guy you saved in the inn.

Someone mentioned DAO, but i dont remember having problems moving the party there, or at least having that many problems.

As a bonus consideration: this system Larian uses makes managing a four-members party way more cumbersome than moving around a full party of six men in a game like Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

Imagine if Larian listened to the (VERY popular) request to increase party size to six without addressing these controls first. A request I'm all in favor of, I may add.
It would turn minute party control from just bad to an unmitigated disaster.

If people want a six-members party (as it seems, given that the discussion about it is the most popular thread on this subforum) addressing this issue is basically a pre-requirement.

Last edited by Tuco; 12/10/20 12:37 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
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I haven played Pathfinder but i think that the best way to move a party is to select who you want to move and others will stay where they are. If you select all everybody moves together with the AI pathing trying to avoid to have them step on fire, if you select just the sneaking rogue to give a peek behind the corner, others stay there, waiting for the rogue to position before moving to attack.

About six members party dunno, mixed blessing; would have been mandatory to have two fighters in the frontline with old DnD rules but now Rogues can hold the line easily, at least at low level, and even mages arent brittle as they were before

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Sorry for the blunt title, I tried a more polite "Honest feedback: I don't like the way Larian defaults control of the whole party" but I ran out of characters half way through the sentence.

Aaaanyway, back to the topic.

This control based on the position of a single character with all companions defaulting on auto-follow is genuinely cumbersome when you compare it to pretty much any other RPG in the same subgenre: the old BG games, Torment, Icewind Dale, Temple of Elemental Evil, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder, etc., where you simply cliclck and drag to select multiple characters, keep them in a formation you can rotate dragging the cursor and you can quickly send each one of them in different direction with ONE click.


There are several problems with the Larian solution:

- it's slower to use properly when precision is required.
- it's less accurate.
- it's a mess that turns into a comedic skit with idiots running randomly anywhere in any situation where you need to give everyone QUICK instructions on where to position.
- that mess can be deadly when there are combat triggers and/or traps around.

I can't honestly think of a single excuse to defend this "innovative" system they introduced since DOS1 in comparison with the above-mentioned titles.

I have to ask my fellows forum dwelllers: is there ANYONE who actually likes the Larian system the most? And if that's the case can that good soul (may the gods have mercy on him) tell us WHY?





you are totally right, i played the pillars of eternity series and Pathfinder:kingmaker, and i am an alpha tester for wrath of the righteous, Larian should really make a function to select the characters, it is more manageable and precise.

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Tuco Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Athann

you are totally right, i played the pillars of eternity series and Pathfinder:kingmaker, and i am an alpha tester for wrath of the righteous, Larian should really make a function to select the characters, it is more manageable and precise.

Not to derail the topic, but is there some way to pay my way into WotR alpha currently, if I missed the original kickstarter?

Last edited by Tuco; 12/10/20 09:05 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Sorry for the blunt title, I tried a more polite "Honest feedback: I don't like the way Larian defaults control of the whole party" but I ran out of characters half way through the sentence.

Aaaanyway, back to the topic.

This control based on the position of a single character with all companions defaulting on auto-follow is genuinely cumbersome when you compare it to pretty much any other RPG in the same subgenre: the old BG games, Torment, Icewind Dale, Temple of Elemental Evil, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder, etc., where you simply cliclck and drag to select multiple characters, keep them in a formation you can rotate dragging the cursor and you can quickly send each one of them in different direction with ONE click.


There are several problems with the Larian solution:

- it's slower to use properly when precision is required.
- it's less accurate.
- it's a mess that turns into a comedic skit with idiots running randomly anywhere in any situation where you need to give everyone QUICK instructions on where to position.
- that mess can be deadly when there are combat triggers and/or traps around.

I can't honestly think of a single excuse to defend this "innovative" system they introduced since DOS1 in comparison with the above-mentioned titles.

I have to ask my fellows forum dwelllers: is there ANYONE who actually likes the Larian system the most? And if that's the case can that good soul (may the gods have mercy on him) tell us WHY?






Yes!!!!!

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+1, i think changing movement system is must

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Totally agree with the OP. One possible solution would be an option to deactivate AI (and thus movement) of party members, as in the original BG games. This could be easier than doing proper pathfinding and out-of-combat behaviour.

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