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#686008 10/10/20 01:45 PM
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Hello everyone,

there are many thoughts that I have after playing EA for roughly 10 hours, but I am starting to worry a bit about the scope of the final game. I mean is it confirmed that there are going to be only 2 other acts / maps? To me that's bit disappointing, because if we are going to get only two more maps similar in size to this first one, then I just cant see the adventure I expected. This corridor style map and exploration just feels like one map where everything blends together, hardly giving me "traveling the world" feels.

I dont know, maybe its just me. But considering that in BG2 we were able to explore cities, unique dungeons, towers, forts, islands, nature, hell, forests,,.. it just felt like a massive journey. Act 1 EA feels like one blob of below average locations mixed together without any memorable places or moments.

Maybe my expectations were just too high, but I still want this to succeed so badly, so could be overthinking a bit as well smile

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Wasn't there talk about 3-4 more areas? I can't remember.

That said, I find it interesting that Larian are actually Ultima fans, because their map design has always been very different. Everything is more or less pretty condensed/compressed -- more like the "theme park" school of design of modern games, in particular open world games.

So you've got those Druids being worried that those Goblins find them -- only that those Goblins actually just live a couple feet away from them if you further explore, and so on.

It is what it has always been though, and in terms of content I think this game will be pretty sizeable in the end.

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A world map would be cool - like the ones in Baldur's Gate 1-2 or Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

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If you get to a certain bridge in the game, you can see the world map.

Venture thither because this is early access.

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Originally Posted by theNight
Hello everyone,

there are many thoughts that I have after playing EA for roughly 10 hours, but I am starting to worry a bit about the scope of the final game. I mean is it confirmed that there are going to be only 2 other acts / maps? To me that's bit disappointing, because if we are going to get only two more maps similar in size to this first one, then I just cant see the adventure I expected. This corridor style map and exploration just feels like one map where everything blends together, hardly giving me "traveling the world" feels.

I dont know, maybe its just me. But considering that in BG2 we were able to explore cities, unique dungeons, towers, forts, islands, nature, hell, forests,,.. it just felt like a massive journey. Act 1 EA feels like one blob of below average locations mixed together without any memorable places or moments.

Maybe my expectations were just too high, but I still want this to succeed so badly, so could be overthinking a bit as well smile


Just finish everything in EA and come talk again about this issue. I am 30+ hours in the game and I haven't even been to goblin town yet. There are hidden dungeons and places to discover.

Last edited by Nyanko; 11/10/20 11:52 AM.
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Originally Posted by Sven_
Wasn't there talk about 3-4 more areas? I can't remember.

That said, I find it interesting that Larian are actually Ultima fans, because their map design has always been very different. Everything is more or less pretty condensed/compressed -- more like the "theme park" school of design of modern games, in particular open world games.

So you've got those Druids being worried that those Goblins find them -- only that those Goblins actually just live a couple feet away from them if you further explore, and so on.

It is what it has always been though, and in terms of content I think this game will be pretty sizeable in the end.



The compressed maps as such are great as it means you don't have to spend ages running back and forth.

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Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
Originally Posted by Sven_
Wasn't there talk about 3-4 more areas? I can't remember.

That said, I find it interesting that Larian are actually Ultima fans, because their map design has always been very different. Everything is more or less pretty condensed/compressed -- more like the "theme park" school of design of modern games, in particular open world games.

So you've got those Druids being worried that those Goblins find them -- only that those Goblins actually just live a couple feet away from them if you further explore, and so on.

It is what it has always been though, and in terms of content I think this game will be pretty sizeable in the end.



The compressed maps as such are great as it means you don't have to spend ages running back and forth.


That's why there is fast travel from everywhere on the area.

So your argument isn't quite valid...
The fast traveling option would even encourage having less compressed theme park maps.

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Originally Posted by Grantig
Originally Posted by DumbleDorf

The compressed maps as such are great as it means you don't have to spend ages running back and forth.


That's why there is fast travel from everywhere on the area.

So your argument isn't quite valid...
The fast traveling option would even encourage having less compressed theme park maps.

I like to compare this game maps to the worst example of the Infinity Engine: Icewind Dale 1. The first real set of maps (crypts) shows how a poorly design map can pad the game exhaustively.

"Fight skeletons, loot...inventory full. Walk back to the shops for 5-10 minutes depending on how deep you are in the dungeon. Walk all the way back and resume fighting. Inventory full, repeat."

They're large maps with loads of things to find in them, but you really spend a tremendous amount of the early game backtracking over and over to start generating gold for decent equipment.

I think BG3 (and 5e in general with its more "level playing field") have set a really good balance. There's stuff everywhere to do and explore, but not so much of it that you're doing endless runs back to the traders, and even if you do decide you need a quick break, the fast travel runes in lore friendly "broken magic weave" let you get back there relatively quickly. Quick trips to camp or through the waypoints mean there's more time for adventuring.

Note: BG1, BG2, and many of the more recent spiritual successors also don't have the problem Icewind Dale 1 does.

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu
Originally Posted by Grantig
[quote=DumbleDorf]
So your argument isn't quite valid...
The fast traveling option would even encourage having less compressed theme park maps.

I like to compare this game maps to the worst example of the Infinity Engine: Icewind Dale 1. The first real set of maps (crypts) shows how a poorly design map can pad the game exhaustively.

"Fight skeletons, loot...inventory full. Walk back to the shops for 5-10 minutes depending on how deep you are in the dungeon. Walk all the way back and resume fighting. Inventory full, repeat."



Hahah, thanks for sharing that. hehe This brought back memories of me playing plus stories of others playing, and how differently people played those games. I've played through IWD1 multiple times (more so than BG2 for instance), but not once had I ever done this. I always only got back to Kuldahar once each area was finished. (I've heard people obsessed with looting played BG1 in a similar way by the way, which is why limited inventory was such a bug bear for them -- here too I only picked up what was unique and valuable, not every single object you find, which given all enemies drop their equipment, are a ton). This sounded equally as annoying, as they traveled back between loot and shop until everything was sold.

It's only in PoE that I've adopted that style of play, as you could pick up stuff without worrying given the unlimited pockets (unlike, say, Pathfinder Kingmaker, where exhaustion, travel speed and object weight is a real thing, which I thought was refreshing as it once again forced me to consider what was "valuable"). Neither Infinity Engine game was designed that you were forced to do any of this, luckily.

Last edited by Sven_; 11/10/20 03:28 PM.
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IWD1 is particularly punishing because it is a dungeon crawler that starts your party at level 1 unless you export characters and start over. It's meant to be a hard slog of a game, a challenge. But it takes minutes to walk across Kuldahar, and it is a really badly designed map as well. Any single map in Athkatla of BG2 is a dream in comparison. I actually didn't have this problem in BG1 for some reason.

I think Tyranny had the nice balance I'm seeing here in BG3 as well.

5e and Tyranny's homegrown system are both are far less dependent on good gear compared to 2nd Edition or 3.5. So it is a lot easier for me to ignore all the garbage.

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I feel what you're saying. I think it is a bit lame that the greatest threat of the first arc is a goblin stronghold. For comparison, in bg1 we had neeshkal mines, but we also had the gnoll stronghold and we already had a lot of world building around the mysterious assassin and the iron shortage. Perhaps it is a EA thing.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."

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