Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General The companions are good. Change my mind

I think they have potential to change their ways. It's not a new thing, even in bg2 companions could change alignments. Vioconia was really bad initially. This is a character I remember when I got her thinking what the hell but you could keep her even if you were good and eventually she becomes neutral. So I don't see why shadowheart can't. Spoilers from here - so far I learned that she loves Shar but one significant detail (that is even written in the journal entry) is the fact that she gave up some of her memories. My guess is that those memories will factor in her "alignment shift". I don't see what's wrong with it if it is well written.

Funny enough, Viconia switch to worship Shar from Loth (she is a terribly written cleric of Shar by the way) and her alignment shift is kinda bullshit. It's there because of people like you, who wants to keep a cool looking char in the party, but can't stand they complains all the time when the party reputation reach 20...


Shadowheart is already more "true neutral" than "neutral evil" anyway. She's more annoyed about breaking neutrality than good vs evil choices. And she is a properly written Shar cleric (they are a very secretive bunch).

Again, as someone who is not versed in forgotten realms lore I judge characters based on what they do in the game, not what they're supposed to do based on rules of imaginary universe. I get why for some people the original lore is important, I suppose it's for the same reason it's important to a Harry potter book fan who sees the movie. However, I think a game should stand on its own and the characters should be evaluated based on the quality of their writing. I wouldn't care that a character is written faithfully to the lore if it is a lame character. But it's also why I disagree with the notion that we should judge the characters based on what their character description says.

On a more personal note, I don't think I kept vioconia because she looked cool or some stupid shit like that, and I think it's really pretentious of you to assume to know how I play video games

So why did you keep Viconia around if she was evil and you were not? There are other healers and clerics options to pick from in the games. She's not the most interesting one storywise. I don't think she's good written in either BG1 or BG2 (but that goes for most of the characters in those games really). She has a good voice actress, but there isn't much VO.

Eh, I'm a straight woman and to be honest, from what I've seen on YT, Viconia's romance IS THE BEST WRITTEN one out of all of the original BG2 companions. Like what do women get? Ah, right, Annoyman. I always wished Haer'Dalis was romancable (I know Bioware had plans to make him romancable, but ran out of time). And honestly, there are ways to make Viconia useful in combat, her natural magical resistance perhaps? Maybe some people like the idea of a drow? Like there are countless reasons to keep her in neutral/good parties.

I liked Viconia and her story. She is not my favorite, and not part of my heancanon party, but I think she was cool and I never found any problems with her story arc.

Again, I'm liking all the party members but it's essential that we have more good companions and that alignment is properly implemented. Protection from evil should work against any evil doers, not just devils and the like.

And yes, Viconia was my favorite romance -- I liked the redemption theme and I think Shadowheart is on the same path.

Unlike others I'm kinda lukewarm on Gale:

1) Like the DOS2 origin characters, he steals the spotlight from my wizard and my cleric of Mystra.



2) I think he 'negged' my toon. "Go to hell" Yeah, same to you Gale and don't try and tell me that you were musing on an everyday expression. You were using pick up artist techniques and it's not working. Astarian also starts harsh with a knife to my throat but at the time he thought I was in working for the mind flayers. Gale is just being a jerk to someone who helped him.

I'm glad they started with the custom characters -- one thing they need to do is to make the custom backgrounds count more. If I have a background as a sage I should be acting like a sage, urchins need to have a store of stories about how they became streetwise etc. Keep "tell my story" but also give me options like "there was this time in chapel when we were supposed to be entirely silent . . ."

Initially I wasn't that impressed with the companions. They seemed shallow and just unnecessarily mean, but they grew on me as I got to know them. Interesting questlines and nice fleshing out of their personalities as you progress. My favorite so far is Astarion with his aloof attitude, ironic sense of humor and vulnerability. Wyll is just likeable so far should be interesting to see how he and Astarion develop Monster/Hunter. Gale ..hmmm, Shadowheart is really difficult to gauge and Lae'zel has been pissed at me for a while now but since she is stuck frozen in camp I can't fix that. Still haven't developed that emotional connection to any of them though, whether friendship or romance and I like that. Seems more realistic to see it develop slowly. Well done larian

I wonder if there's a way for Character Creator to let us select a few memories? Like a list of "what were the most defining events in your life" (Sorcerer/Wizard Example Choice: "That time I accidently exploded my sister's cat"). Rather than having to code for all variations and background minutia, which devs claimed was too much (understandably), several preset "short stories" could be selected and then brought up in dialogue. These could be mixed and matched depending on background, and would help with the feeling I got that the "conversations" I had with companions weren't simply monologues for them to talk about, well, themselves. Which is fine, because they're all way cooler and more interesting than my character, who couldn't even share how/why she became a warlock to Diet Cthulu.

I don't need to be the Chosen One/Gorion's Ward or anything--but it's hard not to feel like I won't be missing out by not playing as a companion. Whom are all, so far, a little *too* special?
How did my character get grouped in these folks? Why are they listening to anything I say when it's seems one of them should be the leader?? Why are they agreeing to go back to my camp and just trusting me to get stuff done? There's no compelling reason for them to follow me, even if we're all seeking the same thing.

I adore Gale (and all the other companions except Lae'zel, whom I'm going to give another shot), but it is true that my character Blanky Tav McBlanderson feels out of her league given all her travel companions have interesting backstories/secrets/superpowers. The only thing my character had that made her unique (other than my unacknowledged backstory for her) was being the only tiefling in the camp, which I'm sure will change once more companions are introduced and a there's a "more special" tiefling.

As much as I love the companions and their writing . . . it is wearying to feel so constantly overshadowed. If Larian can't make my custom character special . . . can I at least have another rando to commiserate with? Maybe a bartender from The Blushing Mermaid who is equally unnerved by our head worm and travelling partners. Because if the rest of the companions are also suuuuper unique, I could see myself quickly becoming exasperated with a well-written crew whom I'd otherwise love.

That's a great idea. Keep "tell your story but allow for some pre chosen responses as well. And yes, put Tav McBlanderson at the same level as the other characters -- in 5th E you are supposed to have a bond, a flaw and such and it would nice to see those implemented in an interesting way.

Even better if it could be edited by the player -- in BG you could rewrite your biography to fit your own head cannon story. Which was primitive compared to what would be needed here but it would be nice to have something that captures that spirit.

If there are going to be "redemption" arcs for non-LG/NG/CG companions, can we also have "corruption" arcs for non-LE/NE/CE ones? Some of them appear to be in desperate need of spiritual liberation.

My guess is that Wyll is on such an arc. Here's what happens when I let him take over conversations:



Wyll's a bit more concerned with looking good than acting good -- that's the flaw that could be his undoing.

That does sound interesting, I didn't get to play with him much this past week.

wow I missed a lot of stuff... I should bring him along the next playthrough.

azarhal - why bring viconia along? because I played multiple playthroughs, so I wanted to change the party I usually play, to see her abuse Aerie, I don't know, it's interesting. I don't play BG with set goals.

This 100%. It's a HUGE issue with D:OS2 as well IMO, the origin characters have a load of work put into them, and if you make your own, you're a pretty blank slate by comparison. IMO They really need to drop the origin character thing, make these true NPCs (they can keep their crazy backstories) then have custom character have a far more central and important role to the actual main plot than they do. Again, doesn't need to be quite on the BG level of child of a god etc, but make the protagonist feel like a protagonist without playing someone elses pretty horrible character..

Yeeees. This is why I love Wyll so much. His sense of morality is so much more interesting than most NPCs in most games. He does good and righteous acts but is driven by a selfish desire for adulation. It is great.

yes. Ditch the concept of companions main characters and make some origins for your main (like in DAO, but less extensive).

Well the problem with any "redemption" story arcs is that that is meta-gaming. If you don't engage in meta-gaming, then you should be role-playing your character in the here and now, and reacting to the things your companions say and do in the here and now. And in that role-playing I don't see how a good-aligned PC can justify continuing to adventure with a vampire or a Sharan beyond the necessity of the first bit of the game. It's not like Volo comes to you tells you: Hey, don't be concerned. These companions can become nicer/good later on the game if you keep at it with them.

As for the game following FR lore, Swen himself as well as the lead writer have said on multiple occasions that the game is going to be very faithful to FR lore. So being faithful to FR lore does matter and is a valid basis for judging the game.

The compannions are a weak spot for the game. All of them are so immensely uncharismatic.

I hate them.

My characters hate them.

I kind of want to see them turn into mind flayers. The devs (my blanket name for anyone working on the game) are really pounding on the theme of introducing tension between the party. But right now I just hate the party.

Yes you are right but in my head my wizard is thinking that she sees the good in shadowheart and is secretly hoping to bring her into the light. Likewise my cleric believes that if Astarian can get free of his master then he can be resurrected and redeemed. (which, from memory, was one of the possible outcomes of the original Strahd module). I don't have high hopes on the second.

But I do agree that we need a full, good party. I'm liking the "misfits thrown together" trope, hoping we can also get a well written variant of the hero's journey trope.