Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Why should I be 'evil'?

A great question someone on reddit asked and I couldn't find a good answer. Well, other than to support the testing (and apparently a spicy scene for those that finish a certain mission). I think a great point of discussion here is the goblin vs. tiefling decision. Spoilers after this point

To set the stage my 'evil' journey started with my half-drow warlock, which the dialogues recognized when it made sense, so I had what at least felt like an advantage when conversing with the 'evil' crew.

When I first encounter the goblin army, I have no choice but to fight them, which automatically puts a bad taste in my mouth because they tried to kill me. Then even if I ignore my vengeful desires and free their friend, a group still attacks me. That encounter is okay since it is just infighting that I would imagine happens in most goblin camps. Then when I finally get to meet the leaders they are all accusatory and want to kill me unless I pass a series of checks that aren't required from the tiefling side of the mission. I feel like it is extremely hard to justify wanting to join them when they have offered me nothing other than violence and mistrust. They don't even have an offer to help with the tadpole, unlike the druids.

I think this can be fixed with an extra encounter before getting to the grove that provides us the option to help 'scout' the grove. Maybe the Drow, who we know watched us fall from the ship, sends a minion with an offer: Help her and she will teach us how to unlock the secrets of the tadpole. She has sent a group of her most useless fodder to test the defenses of the grove, and wants you to 'help' the grove to get inside as a double-agent and free her scout. If we make that agreement, we can still choose to betray her later, but at least in the beginning we have a reason to join. The promise of power is a strong motivator for the evil character of all flavors.

This can then ripple through the other encounters. A little more trust from some of the leaders. Maybe a challenge to a duel by an aggressive goblin trying to prove he should help lead the raid instead of you. The opportunity to pit the leaders against each other is always nice, especially if we are already friends with the Zhent and the Drow. Maybe they want an excuse to get rid of the hobgoblin because he is making bad business decisions, and want to install themselves as the leader.

I think there are a lot of opportunities here. Let's make Faerûn evil again!

p.s. Please don't tell my Paladin I said that.

I mean, evil in D&D follows 3 general brands: follow the rules - even the ones that are oppressive, kill everyone/no regard for life, and rule through sheer might. There is no authority in the wilds where we are to appeal to. Not a legalistic one anyway. Goblins are operating under the latter one as well. The middle option gives no fucks so meh. Are you saying you want special treatment for being a drow?

I can see your point... potentially. On the other hand, what with the brandings and "true souls," there's no reason for them to heed you as you don't stand out as part of the ruling class. You're only a threat if you could report them to the drow lady in the encampment but she wouldn't give 2 shits either. Basically, there's very little reason for them to NOT try to murder you. They're already on a pillage/kill spree anyway.

So why -should- you be evil? Because you know what's best and will subjugate or kill anyone who thinks otherwise. So get on it!

Okay, but by that logic, I should just kill everyone, because none of them can be subjugated.

My point is that if Larian wants us to play evil, our character's need a valuable reason to choose that path. Homicidal Maniac and Goblin Fetishist aren't the best draw for most people.

You are not drow, you are half drow therefore you are useful only as fodder, plaything, latrine boy, or food for my other pets! Also as of the moment you are low level, and an unknown, and if your male then therefore you are weak do to you not being half drow, and also male. Also you are not of the same house (if drow in goblin village has one) so therefore you are fodder, or a potential rival. Rival since you are half drow and/or male is highly unlikely an opinion to a female drow. So what is happening is you've already been judged by the drow, on several drow merits found lacking, and so you rate equal to goblins, humans, etc as fodder, slave, etc. Your options then are to prove yourself useful and therefore deserving of a very slight amount of attention like a much unloved dog will on occasion in a pat on the head. Or if it's an option (unsure if it is) kill her and replace her in some way shape or form.(again don't think it is an option. cause goblin army can upset the balance.) Yet by following her you are following the evil path and may be awarded further down the road for it. maybe you'll get trinkets, some time alone with her if found pleasing etc.

Being evil doesn't mean you serve no master, you have one just by being a Warlock. It means your allies are also your enemy. The opposite is not true, and it is harder to please evil then it is to please good. Add to this that it's a drow your dealing with, who have a very narrow view of other races, since they are the usual steroetypical bad guys (superior race) and if your male it lowers you even further do to Female Drow having a higher social status then males.

Okay, but why should I bother joining them when the first encounter I had was them trying to kill me? As far as I know they have nothing to offer me, nor do I have any reason to believe that showing up to their camp would be particularly fruitful. Especially when I have a reason to believe that they have captured the one guy who could actually help me.

I'm speaking from a game design point of view, not necessarily a lore perspective, the mention of half-drow was just to show I was trying to get into the headspace.

i posted in the other evil thread about the why's and how. From a role play perspective. I'll see about linking it. Though if you want a response based upon what you as benbaxter knows vs. what your character knows then it will be completely different.

benbaxter wants to play the game multiple times as different characters that each have their own realistic motivations :p

I think the replies here are too bogged down in specific features of the OP's character and miss the real issue: why should *ANY* character slaughter the druid's grove?

To motivate a NE player, there needs to be a promise of power, or the narrative doesn't make much sense ("Greatness, at any cost"). The Hag/Raphael both promise something for the supposed "evil" choice. And that's ok, because an evil character doesn't intend on paying anyway. They expect to take advantage of the situation and get the boon for free (I seriously hope there is a way to outwit Raphael, or pay with someone else's soul, perhaps the Teifling telescope girl?). Alternatively, if going with a LE path, the drow/goblin's should have some legal right over the lives of the druids. There's a ton of ways that could go.

http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=695286#Post695286

since both this topic and the one in link are the same thing I'll be posting in the other one to not have to point out same things.

I feel this is a good analysis as to why it feels unnatural to start siding with the goblins
AND I really support the idea of someone from the Goblin camp meeting you early and offer (or at least pretend to offer) how to use the tadpole to your advantage.

Well if the PC is full drow they basically lay out the red carpet everywhere he/she goes - it's quite cool actually.

However if you tell those siblings of the True Soul (Brynna and something eh?) who were sent out to find survivors of the crash, you're one of them, they'll try to kill you on spot, so that's where one would probably decide not to collaborate with that gang no matter their alignment (now let's not fall for the cliche evil=stupid)

May I point out one really potentially good reason to play the evil pathway with as the game is from a roleplay perspective?

Well you have this tadpole in your head right, but somethings off about it?
What's that? You mean people who practically worship you because of this tadpole? That's nice, I feel good now.
What's that? I can literally take over people's mind because of the tadpole? Sweet, that'll come in handy, and makes me feel strong and secure.
What's that? There is a whole faction who worship a new deity like figure, and their chosen leaders all have the same tadpole in their head? You mean I can find my way into a whole religion which is pretty much built around worshipping me as a representative of their god?

Ya know, maybe this tadpole isn't so bad after all, maybe I can find out to... ya know... control it? That suggestion that Astarion makes when you first meet him?
There are plenty of enticements in the game for your character to try and find a way to actually use the thing in your head, and to find out more about the goblins. The only other people in the goblin camp who are really distrustful of you are the leaders of the camp, and that's only after/if they discover you were in the ship that crashed.

Really there is only one question you should be asking yourself...

Just like in the witcher, you can be what you want. I didn't feel compelled to go evil in this game. Most quests, if not all, are of different shades of grey, which is more mature and interesting than Good vs Evil if you ask me.

Being evil in my opinion is most of all find solutions that helps you the most with no regards to others. And right now the game does a very bad job at that. You have the option to either kill the goblins for a possible cure to your condition or kill the druids and tieflings because bitchy drow lady told you to. There is no benefit for you. Why should you involve yourself in this conflict at all? And if you just wanna kill stuff cheotic style there are plenty of goblins to slaughter... So why?

Honestly I find the Evil playthrough very 'weak' right now.

The game has to give me better motivation to side with the goblins or use the tadpole or way more evil options in general that is self serving smart evil.

Right, but how is my character supposed to know that there is a group that would worship them? If Larian wants evil to be an option, then it needs to make it a clear option early on.

explore there are 5 options to find evil ways before you hit blighted village. how much earlier does it need to be? on the ship?

Roleplay whatever you feel like tbh.
Thats the magic of a RPG. You can be a bipolar schizo murder hobo!

I support the author's opinion, it is true. Many did not even know that there was such an opportunity, and who supported the goblins could not answer the question "why" except "I liked this sexy Drow, and for her sake I staged genocide without meaning"

This is, of course, a good reason too. But serve it prettier and wider