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Originally Posted by Emrikol
My issue (nothing I get hung up on, mind you) is the seeming irreconcilability of having the tadpole in my head and needing to get it out asap with exploring (spoilers ahead if you haven't gone very far) an owlbear cave, a burning inn, etc. We are, of course, free to pass up all this stuff, but that's not fun.


true, the whole asap thing goes down the drain when (spoilers)







you begin realizing your not showing symptoms. Maybe then your character is trying to work through the problems, or deflecting, through the whole question of "Why, I'm not turning. Why this person hasn't turned etc.?" So instead he's working through the problem by exploring, trying to find scraps of information anywhere he can. or he came up with 'Oh well I'm not turning others seem to be doing fine, I'm going to go adventuring because I'm not turning!" Which is why I think the Grove itself is a major focus point of the story, and why it's hard to simply walk past it.

A. Druids are known for healing, they may have a healer to help you. They might have seen something like this in this area, or knowledge about it. Plus Le has a quest there which incidentally pulls you really close to a captive.

B. You learn more about whats going on in general around you, the fighting, the refugees, Elteral, and things.

so you learn about alot in the grove that can ease that sense of urgency, if you explore. Lifting some of the immedaite need, and pressure off you. The owlbear cave if you get the convo, may have something linked to Ed, in it. Why was he going there if he seen all the owlbear tracks, is it something that can aid me? etc.

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Almost all games and enough movies have this issue, I get the OP's point, worth stating, industry/tech issue imo.

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Having a clock solely for daytime to nighttime transitions would be nice, but not a timer for quests etc.... I like taking time to explore and find secrets + that would make it annoying when it comes to puzzle parts as well.

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Originally Posted by Temperance
Giving the first act a second run, I finally spotted one thing that bothered me all along story-wise. Am I the only one finding it very weird and disturbing that :

- A major city just got literally harvested by mind flayers and absolutely nobody in the first act seem to care. NPCs don't care, companions don't care, your PC doesn't care either.
- Despite having witnessed a giant mind flayer hive crashing nearby (or at least heard it crash), people just casually go on with their business without the slightest sense of urgency whatsoever.
- NPCS even bring out Baldurs Gate in their lines, telling you how they hope to reach the city, despite it being literally destroyed. Even if they're not aware, your PC / companions should be able to tell them about the state of the city ! An event of this scale should affect everyone ! Look at the first chapter of Descent into Avernus for example. Refugees, panic. Everywhere. World feels alive.
- Last but not least : my PC has a tag showing I grew in Baldurs Gate. One of his/her main drive should be about getting to know the state of Baldurs Gate and learning why it got harvested / caught in friendly fire between Gyths and Mind flayers. Growing there, it's safe to assume he/she has friends, maybe family whatsoever. He/she should care.I have yet to see dialogues with my companions or major NPCs showing that. We should be able to inquire about those things. I don't care the slightest about refugees and druids if I know my hometown has been destroyed. My PC and his/her companions should talk more about this than spending time banting about how they hate each other.

There is an overall lack of urgency in the story. With such an intense intro, characters should react more about what they've been through. As it is right now, it seems like everyone knows about mind flayers, everyone seems to be okay with it, and everyone deals with it like it's just another standard threat.

Bottom line, the story of the first act seems totally disconnected from the world and the major events surrounding it. It makes my PC even blander. And the world doesn't feel alive at all.




God. That's true !

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Originally Posted by Tylm
Originally Posted by Temperance
Giving the first act a second run, I finally spotted one thing that bothered me all along story-wise. Am I the only one finding it very weird and disturbing that :

- A major city just got literally harvested by mind flayers and absolutely nobody in the first act seem to care. NPCs don't care, companions don't care, your PC doesn't care either.
- Despite having witnessed a giant mind flayer hive crashing nearby (or at least heard it crash), people just casually go on with their business without the slightest sense of urgency whatsoever.
- NPCS even bring out Baldurs Gate in their lines, telling you how they hope to reach the city, despite it being literally destroyed. Even if they're not aware, your PC / companions should be able to tell them about the state of the city ! An event of this scale should affect everyone ! Look at the first chapter of Descent into Avernus for example. Refugees, panic. Everywhere. World feels alive.
- Last but not least : my PC has a tag showing I grew in Baldurs Gate. One of his/her main drive should be about getting to know the state of Baldurs Gate and learning why it got harvested / caught in friendly fire between Gyths and Mind flayers. Growing there, it's safe to assume he/she has friends, maybe family whatsoever. He/she should care.I have yet to see dialogues with my companions or major NPCs showing that. We should be able to inquire about those things. I don't care the slightest about refugees and druids if I know my hometown has been destroyed. My PC and his/her companions should talk more about this than spending time banting about how they hate each other.

There is an overall lack of urgency in the story. With such an intense intro, characters should react more about what they've been through. As it is right now, it seems like everyone knows about mind flayers, everyone seems to be okay with it, and everyone deals with it like it's just another standard threat.

Bottom line, the story of the first act seems totally disconnected from the world and the major events surrounding it. It makes my PC even blander. And the world doesn't feel alive at all.




God. That's true !


Might not make sense to ya, but Barrelmancy sure does to me! Michael Bay Effect beats all.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 15/10/20 11:07 PM.
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I agree, the game definitely has some exposition problems. The setting, current state of the world and several of the characters could use more explanation.

I know there will be some who say just read the latest D&D lore, and I am/will be doing more of that. They should still be able to make it more accessible in an immersive/cinematic/interactive way. There's a lot of gods and races that I don't know much about and think should be explained better in the character creator and possibly in a codex like other games. A "More info" pop-up in the character creator (maybe with some illustration or simple animation) for each race and god would help. I think there should especially be a better introduction to the nature of the gods, Hells and Tieflings. Tieflings look pretty evil and according to lore are "generally distrusted", this feels only subtly mentioned.

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Originally Posted by lanceromancer
I agree, the game definitely has some exposition problems. The setting, current state of the world and several of the characters could use more explanation.

I know there will be some who say just read the latest D&D lore, and I am/will be doing more of that. They should still be able to make it more accessible in an immersive/cinematic/interactive way. There's a lot of gods and races that I don't know much about and think should be explained better in the character creator and possibly in a codex like other games. A "More info" pop-up in the character creator (maybe with some illustration or simple animation) for each race and god would help. I think there should especially be a better introduction to the nature of the gods, Hells and Tieflings. Tieflings look pretty evil and according to lore are "generally distrusted", this feels only subtly mentioned.


subtly mentioned. Foul blood, kicked out of an entire city, mud blood. not to spoil anything but play as a tiefling go to the grove and talk to kagha, check dc between tiefling, and another character.

How is the above subtle? One of the options when you talk to Zevlor is 'Are there any place for Tieflings.' its there in black and white. This and the above is not subtle it's a gaint barbarian slamming it's axe into your face screaming 'Your dead!'

It's the same with Drow, and Zevlors surprise at seeing your a Drow and saved him. The same with Gith when you run into Shadowheart the first time. It's all there in black and white, some things ig you can dig around and find out. Explore and learn my young padawan.

I'll not go into the lore bit, since it's still EA, and there are alot of things not in game, and it's been discussed on many other threads.

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Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Almost all games and enough movies have this issue, I get the OP's point, worth stating, industry/tech issue imo.


Pillars of eternity and Tyranny don't have it, though. I think its a problem with the writing.

Last edited by Hachina; 15/10/20 11:57 PM.

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The opening cinematic should have a subtitle, naming the city when it is first shown. Movies commonly do this.

In some interview somewhere I saw that the city was not Baldur's Gate, but the game itself gives you no indication of this, which would be REALLY confusing later when you go to the city.

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Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Almost all games and enough movies have this issue, I get the OP's point, worth stating, industry/tech issue imo.


Pillars of eternity and Tyranny don't have it, though. I think its a problem with the writing.


There isn't a single person i know that played Larian games for the writing. I actually played D:OS to feel like Donkey Kong. I was cracking up all the time cheesing everything so i can give them that.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 16/10/20 12:21 AM.
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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Almost all games and enough movies have this issue, I get the OP's point, worth stating, industry/tech issue imo.


Pillars of eternity and Tyranny don't have it, though. I think its a problem with the writing.


There isn't a single person i know that played Larian games for the writing.


Devil's Advocate - Theres going to be a lot of people never having played a Larian game looking for a D&D adventure


What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
There isn't a single person i know that played Larian games for the writing.

Ouch.


Necromancy is just recycling...
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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Almost all games and enough movies have this issue, I get the OP's point, worth stating, industry/tech issue imo.


Pillars of eternity and Tyranny don't have it, though. I think its a problem with the writing.


There isn't a single person i know that played Larian games for the writing. I actually played D:OS to feel like Donkey Kong. I was cracking up all the time cheesing everything so i can give them that.


Lol .


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Fun fact: the city being "harvested" in the cinematic intro is in fact NOT Baldur's Gate.
You can continue with the discussion, for everything else.


EDIT: Already mentioned in the second page.

Last edited by Tuco; 16/10/20 12:44 AM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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would seriously hate to play D&D with some of these people. It seems your spose to hand out everything up front, instead of saving things to reveal them later. or in case of a game through multipule playthroughs, until you end up with all the answers, and can horde them like a stingy child with candy.

Seriously though explore, make new types of characters play through. 'Give a man a fish they eat for one day, teach a man to fish they eat for a lifetime.'

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Originally Posted by clavis
Originally Posted by Temperance
Originally Posted by Orbax
The city was Yartar, which is SE of Neverwinter, its 2+ months journey from BG



I missed that then. But this thread and everyones confusion about what city it is / where we're from as a PC just shows that nobody has a clear sense of what's happening. And that's coming from someone who is prepping Descent into Avernus (so I've read the campaign a few times now).
This proves the game makes a terrible job at providing you with some context. It is just confusing as it is now. The game should tell you where the action takes place exactly / ground it into the lore. I don't want to rely on external intel dropped by the devs during an interview to learn all of this. This is bad storytelling IMO.

We don't know where we've got captured. Our PC don't provide you with anything personal (like, we don't have any choices to customize him/her through dialog). They could either implement some choices through character creation or let us customize our PC through dialog. But I think the game and the story would benefit from it. It would be more engaging.

Plus, the world needs to react more to what's happening. Your companions should too. I mean if we were all abducted, wouldn't one of our first questions whenever we meet be "what was the last thing you remember before waking up on the ship ?" or "where were you kidnapped ?". Seems like some basic info and a great way to give players something to get involved in the story, and to create a bond between characters.


Where you got captured, how does hardcoding this affect your actions in the game. If you were caught in say BG how does that affect you trying to get rid of the tadpole? If you were adducted in bed with a Mayors wife, how does that affect how your going to get rid of the tadpole?

A DM being vague about YOUR past in an RPG is allowing you to make that decision, and choice for YOURSELF. From there you can eloberate use what you've created as your backstory to solidfy how your character reacts to this, either internally, or externally through sudden voilence, always using persusion, killing a companion, letting a companion go, traveling alone, not killing anyone they don't need to.

The moment a DM/Game tells you your backstory those choices that are going to make up your character is ripped away from you. If he tells you your a nobody, born to shepards your going to act a certain way. If he tells you your a nobles spoiled brat, your going to act a certain way. If he tells you you have crabs, and were captured in a brothel, with another man your going to act a certain way.
By telling you your no longer playing a true rpg, or your character your playing Theirs. Larian stated they want you to tell YOUR story, and want to help you tell YOUR story.

Larian is letting YOU make your decisions for yourself about your backstory, where you were captured, why you were captured at that time. Your backstory may be as simple as going okay I chose hermit, so Character was grabbed picking berries. or it could be as eloberate as what they had for dinner, what they did on a daily basis. If they had a family, if that family was captured at the same time, if so are they searching for them? If they are would you really be telling your compainions any of it? None of them seem to care about anything other then their own problems, same with the druids, goblins, and others. You might not find your family, but that background and character is YOURS, it's not another pregenerated character that belongs quite literally to Larian Studios. It's yours, and thats what Larian stated they wanted to do, is let YOU tell YOUR story, not Ast, or Le, or Shadowheart, but YOURS.

do you even rp bro?

Rant over


Ouch, you need to take a break and relax a bit, no need to be condescending. I've actually both played and DMed for D&D since more than 20 years and I'm a player of the Early Access, which I think entitles me to give some feedback and honest opinion withtout being flamed with some "do you even rp bro".

Anyways, back to the topic. What I'm saying is that, sure, the DM leaves you room to customize your own backstory, I never said otherwise. But as a tabletop player you're actually free to input and dig into it whenever you want, why as many options as you want, imagination being the limit. In a video game ? Not so much.

That's why (if you step down a bit from your pedestal and actually read what I've been saying), you'll notice how I'm in for options to customize your character through dialog options and through character creation, which are video game mechanics. Another option would be, as I tried to illustrate through my previous comment (but seeing how you caught fire I'll try again), to learn about/customize your character through your companions : having them asking you we're you're from, what was your job, why you were abducted, whatever the devs see fit would be fine. Just give me a purpose in this story other than "tadpole bad, goblins bad, companions jerks, arrrhg". It would allow you to mold your character further, and it would create a bond between you and your companions. That's good writing.

Many games do that : they give you options to customize your personality and backstory. No need to look far, pretty much any Bioware game / leading RPG games in the industry do it. Take Mass Effect for example : a couple of defining choices at the very beginning, and then two very basic options to choose your personality along the way (renegate/parangon). I don't think anyone having played to games would call Shepard a "bland" character. Yet we all have a different Shepard because the game gave us room to mold him/her the way we wanted through dialogs, choices and companions.

It works in tabletop too : when as a DM I bring in a new DMPC or NPC companion, I make sure they engage players and ask them about themselves (be it to deceive them later in the campaign, or for the sake of knowing them better). It gives more depht to my world and the player answering questions feel rewarded, because my NPC cares about him/her, my world reacts to him/her. And my players would jump hard on me if my NPCs wouldn't see fit to react to a mind flayer hive crashing just a few miles away.

Oh, and by the way, you're telling me how much Larian gives me freedom and such in the game (I take it as an excuse for the abysmal lack of characterization of my PC). Fine. But as you may notice in my previous posts, that same Larian gave me a tag telling me I'm from Baldur's Gate. That's arbitrary and mandatory. So much for Larian letting me be whoever I want as you're saying heh. If I'm from Baldurs Gate as the game tells me, then I have a pre-established story, and it means I should be provided with some context on how I got on that ship in the first place.

Bottom line : the game should do a better job for exposition, especially in a setting as rich as the Forgotten Realms, it should provide me options to give my PC more personality / backstory (my companions are a**holes I want to murder, but at least they've got some personality), and more importantly it should make NPCs react to what's happening around them. A mind flayer Nautiloid literally crashed a few miles from where they all are, and yet, nobody cares.


Originally Posted by Druid_NPC
Originally Posted by JDCrenton
There isn't a single person i know that played Larian games for the writing.

Ouch.


I'm starting to realize this too. It hurts me because Baldurs Gate has been a carefully written story. Right now it looks more like a combat simulator where every excuse is good enough to feed me with more "tactical" combat. That may also be why Larian games don't usually provide you with rewards when you deal with problems out of combat (no XP, no Loot whatsoever). It's just not how they implement things in their games.

I thought they had trouble exposing their own setting in DOS because it was a new one, but with so many good material available for the Forgotten Realms, I find it very *worrying* to say the least.

Last edited by Temperance; 16/10/20 06:39 AM.
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So, it's been said that the Cinematic isn't Baldur's Gate, BUT Baldur's Gate was attacked. If I remember correctly, Astarion mentions he was in Baldur's Gate when he got kidnapped? Like his memory is prowling the city or something? Or was it just some random memory? Pretty sure he was talking about being in BG when he got kidnapped.

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I totally agree with OP.

I can hear that the locals have other problems but a spaceship just crashed and no one really cares. The entire first act seems totally disconnected to the main events we had in the cinematics.
It also look like no one saw a red dragon flying arround...

That's a reason why this world doesn't seem alive at all, but not the only one.
(companions that never talk is another one).


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really? i had thought the whole time that it was BG that got attacked? i guess i couldve missed that in my playthrough, but idk, when was this learned in game?

i agree with op that i felt the world should be more reactive to a giant flying spaceship apparating into the sky but i guess the npcs have enough of their own problems to deal with as it is

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Originally Posted by UnderworldHades
So, it's been said that the Cinematic isn't Baldur's Gate, BUT Baldur's Gate was attacked. If I remember correctly, Astarion mentions he was in Baldur's Gate when he got kidnapped? Like his memory is prowling the city or something? Or was it just some random memory? Pretty sure he was talking about being in BG when he got kidnapped.


Gale was taken from Waterdeep. The city in the intro (Yartar) isn't the first place it took passengers, it is the last place it took passengers.

We don't know since when the Githyanki have been chasing the ship, it could have jumped all over Faerun taking people (to replenish its numbers?) and escaping the Giths until it crashed.


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