Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Combat Mechanics - Magic and Actions need changes

No problem with having to make adjustments when it comes to making this a PC game. But there are adjustments and there are just bad homebrews. If we are honest 90% of homebrew is utter shite, because people are not thinking straight, but "omg having a heavy armor wizard subclass with access to 9th level spells as their starting ability would be so great" (overexaggeration, but you get the point). Similar I feel that Larian is going hard for their revamping of mechanics like surfaces etc. They make concentration spells basically useless, and those already are a gamble in the normal rules. Just to point out one huge problem.

Concentration needs adjustment, I agree. But surfaces are kind of a core thing to Larian and I doubt they will go away. I also doubt they will change mobility bonus actions because they are necessary to deal with the surfaces. While homebrews may be mostly shite, I expect that when all is said and done, Larian's will not be. But people can disagree.

Personally, I find the effects of acid on the ground and the ability to carry around barrels silly.

Well, since this game supposed to be 5e D&D game, if there's no great fun, or some serious limitation, it should take 5e rules.

It was funny in DOS 1, 2 with ground effects, and it makes sense flammable things can be burned, water can be frozen in table top game. So I don't complain there's some ground effect, not like Larian should remove it entirely. And I hope they don't remove it entirely. Now Let's see DOS 1 ,2 you get many action points, do multiple spells and skills on same time(I can't remember DOS1 perfectly, DOS 2 you get 4AP normally, Lone wolf get some more with 2 characters, glass cannon gives 6AP too, tea and chapter 2 stuff gives +2AP with spending some resources. Which makes easier to get out, and make ground effects, even then there was cool time to spells and skills, and grenades isn't powerful enough compared to spells. You can counter ice floor with nailed shoes easily, there's some kind of blink skill if you go for melee. (Warfare(phoenix dive, and some skill), and Scoundrel(jump, and i can't remember but +2AP skill for some turn)) And there was physical/magical armor to prevent CC and burning effect. DOS1 doesn't have it, it has saving throw (only CC if I remember correctly)


Let's see Baldur's gate 3, there's one action for every character, and enemies surpasses your number normally. Every encounter, almost half of them throw ground effects. If your wizard deal it safely, you must expend your spell slot, and action, and you should prepare non damage spell which takes prepared spell slots too. If you can't change prepared spell before long rest(it will be sometime after I guess?), So it's extreme waste, if you do this, there's more goblins than your party members to re-apply ground effects. Unlike DOS2 it's not easy to deal with it. But this game has almost same amount of ground effects of DOS2.

Melees doesn't have gap-closer like DOS2 if they don't have magical items, and there's almost every time limitation of short rest or something. So they jump every time to avoid ground effect which waste your bonus action every time. And my personal opinion, it's suck to jump every turn, it feels like melees being grasshopper or bunny. Spellcasters use bonus action more useful than melees normally, jumping around makes more serious waste to them.



Shove things is an attack. Since the best way to deal some damages to enemies now is shoving them off the cliff. Normally action is for dealing damage, and major CC, bonus action is for buff and utils in DND 5e. Throw was bonus action before early access, but Larian changed it because bonus action is for utility not dealing damage. And DND 5e there's safety that shove only pushes them 5.ft, so if you place your characters well, there's no super dangerous situation to be shoved til death unless multiple enemies try to shove only one creature til death (at least there will be multiple strength contest)

BG3 they push almost 20ft with high strength, and I can't be sure it uses strength contest, or melee attack accuracy. And there's bunch of thing push them with area effect. It means BG3 you can easily instantly die. And there's no unconscious if there's no ground, instant death, which is suck, and bodies teleport back to camp, it's so silly. and there's bug that Gale's body teleport to Camp and kill all the other party members with necrotic aura. If place has too much cliff, you die so easily it becomes initiative, saving throw rock scissor paper game. It feels almost unfair, and non-playable.

This is the spoiler situation that I felt unfairness, I killed these encounter somehow, but I had no fun with it.



This is the most bummer part of shove. If released game will have this same encounter and same mechanic, I'll be very disappointed.



This is the explanation why too much ground effect is bad, and shove is too op in my opinion.

Sorry for my bad English.

This and the fact that *arrows* explode in pools and fire and acid. Arrows should not pack enough substance to make an AoE unless they are super expensive magical arrows. And I'd still rather see those kind of effects come from spells or flasks rather than arrows.

And the AoE throwables never miss their mark. They could sometimes be off a meter or two.

I also would like to flink in that when people use the argument "but it's not TT it's a videogame it needs to be fun" they forget something very important. They forget to add "for me". Instead pretty much always making the assumption that they speak for the majority.

Well. I, personally would find it more fun if it followed closer to the TT. Which means that cantrips shouldn't create surfaces and damage at the same time. That shove shouldn't be a bonus action. Hide should be a bonus action only for some classes and need a feat taken for the others. Encounters should be trimmed down as 20+ enemies is not something a lvl3 party should meet. That scrolls should be for casters only. That surfaces and barrels not disappear entirely but are toned down greatly and only exists as strategic options in some encounters. That spells like sleep doesn't become useless because of HP buffering etc.

And I don't even play the tabletop version. Haven't for 25 years. So why do I wish it to follow the 5e D&D rules more closely than they do now? Because as someone that loves crpg's, it would be something new. Something that hasn't been truly successfully done so far. A true transition from TT to cprg where the main difference is that the DM can't improvise on the go. I don't want another NWN clone. Or a DOS clone set in Forgotten Realms. Or PoE or Kingmaker. Pick inspiration from everywhere but create something that really can't be compared to the other series more than a few similarities.

Considering that Larian Studios only has one strong IP(Divinity) with two top sellers(DOS 1&2), I think it's imperative that they show us that they are able to create this. And I think that so far they are showing promise but that the solution should never be to stray from the 5e d&d rules if it can be fixed in other ways. Because if they get stuck in the same game design that has worked for them before, they will soon fall behind the next upcoming studio with a smash hit on the market.

You didn't hear a good explanation? That was literally the explanation. It's not difficult to understand.

Here, there's a part that I left out.

EDIT: There's more. Some spells target AC, other spells require the target to make saving throws. The spells which target AC are easier to hit because of lowered monster AC. Saving throws have not been altered. This means spells which require saving throws have not been rebalanced and are now underwhelming to use and are not effective. See Sacred Flame, Color Spray, Sleep - all of those feel very bad to use because they're much more ineffective than they should be. Other spells are powerful because they require Concentration to be effective. Concentration is a saving throw. Saving throws are much easier to fail when there is unresistable, no-saving-throw-to-avoid damage and AoE attacks and explosions all over the place. This makes concentration spells less effective, AND LESS FUN TO USE.


The game is using two different systems designed for two different styles of game. Because the systems are working at odds with each other, THIS DOES NOT FEEL FUN.

I hope you are able to understand that.





This. There are plenty of adjustments from the tabletop which are good and fun. Because some things need adjusting does not mean that every single adjustment is by definition a good one.

I'm not a TT player but I think the game would be way more memorable to me if Larian followed the rules a little bit more.

I don't play a BG / D&D to focus on tactical combats.
Dipping, surfaces, OP ennemies, flashy effects, shove/jump all the time,... That's fun, but if it's everywhere in the game it don't look very RP to me.

I think the focus is too much about "gameplay" and not enough about adventure, immersion and consistency regarding D&D and the FR.