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Originally Posted by Hawke

Also being able to kill kids means the game has to be censored in countries like Germany and Larian definetly doesn't want that.


Theres a lot of games already that aren't banned in Germany that let you kill children:

https://www.giantbomb.com/killing-children/3015-4067/games/

Not necessarily everyone on that list, but whichever ones are not banned.

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Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I took a look at the scene with the goblin children teasing the bear, which is a very IMPORTANT bear, I don't want to spoil it for anyone that may not know. All I will say is DON'T kill the bear. It seems in the cinematic scene we are shown children goblins BUT I don't think that's who you end up fighting. I noticed one of the goblin kids running to get help. So, who you end up killing is maybe one goblin child because the rest are actually adults but since the goblins are the same height, it's hard to tell. I took a look at the faces on the top left of the screen and noticed that they don't seem like faces of younglings but they look more adult.


You can kill the children or leave them to run away and warn the rest of the camp. While killing them is optional, it is still possible unlike the invincible tiefling children.


That's because Tieflings are of Human origin when Goblins are not. They are considered monsters and usually evil. I wouldn't call Tiefling children invincible, look at the cinematic scene with the Tiefling child Arabella, if you fail to save her, she gets killed by Kagha's snake.

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I never tried to kill any kids, goblin or otherwise, and I played both sides of that coin. The tiefling kids we all dead at goblin hands when I found them. The goblin kids were never around once you start to wipe their camp and that goes for their bodies as well. But the druid cove was littered with their bodies and there were far more tiefling children than goblin. I felt bad for the mute tiefling kid though.

But I don't want either race's kids or any kids to be removed from the game. Baldur's Gate better have kids and I loved the lil scam the tiefling kids had going on.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I took a look at the scene with the goblin children teasing the bear, which is a very IMPORTANT bear, I don't want to spoil it for anyone that may not know. All I will say is DON'T kill the bear. It seems in the cinematic scene we are shown children goblins BUT I don't think that's who you end up fighting. I noticed one of the goblin kids running to get help. So, who you end up killing is maybe one goblin child because the rest are actually adults but since the goblins are the same height, it's hard to tell. I took a look at the faces on the top left of the screen and noticed that they don't seem like faces of younglings but they look more adult.


You can kill the children or leave them to run away and warn the rest of the camp. While killing them is optional, it is still possible unlike the invincible tiefling children.


That's because Tieflings are of Human origin when Goblins are not. They are considered monsters and usually evil. I wouldn't call Tiefling children invincible, look at the cinematic scene with the Tiefling child Arabella, if you fail to save her, she gets killed by Kagha's snake.


I already covered that. If she can get killed by the snake then theres no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to with a weapon or spell. They are invincible when they cannot die and stay alive on 0 HP. Tieflings also look like devils, pretty much the definition of 'monsterous' if you care to look it up. The goblins actually look less like monsters than tieflings do anyway.

Last edited by DumbleDorf; 18/10/20 09:16 PM.
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Nope! Teifling are not monstrous or evil in 5E! Just an uncommon race alike Gnomes or Dragonborn.

Last edited by Hawke; 18/10/20 09:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by Hawke
Nope! Teifling are not monstrous or evil in 5E! Just an uncommon race alike Gnomes or Dragonborn.


They are monsterous based on the dictionary definition of monsterous:

having the qualities or appearance of a monster
came face to face with a monstrous creature

Doesn't matter what 5e or WOTC want to define it as, if players want to kill tieflings then let them kill tieflings.

They straight up come from the hells.

Last edited by DumbleDorf; 18/10/20 09:20 PM.
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If you don't care about 5e lore then this discussion is a waste of time Tieflings are just differnt looking humans while Goblins are monsters
/thread closed

Last edited by Hawke; 18/10/20 09:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by Hawke
If you don't care about 5e lore then this discussion is a waste of time Tieflings are just differnt looking humans while Goblins are monsters
/thread closed


Erm tieflings are not Humans, they are tieflings. Goblins are classified as as humanoid as well.

And you should be able to kill human children in the game if any are put in as well.

Also goblins are not even classified as monsterous https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Goblin

Last edited by DumbleDorf; 18/10/20 09:32 PM.
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Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I took a look at the scene with the goblin children teasing the bear, which is a very IMPORTANT bear, I don't want to spoil it for anyone that may not know. All I will say is DON'T kill the bear. It seems in the cinematic scene we are shown children goblins BUT I don't think that's who you end up fighting. I noticed one of the goblin kids running to get help. So, who you end up killing is maybe one goblin child because the rest are actually adults but since the goblins are the same height, it's hard to tell. I took a look at the faces on the top left of the screen and noticed that they don't seem like faces of younglings but they look more adult.


You can kill the children or leave them to run away and warn the rest of the camp. While killing them is optional, it is still possible unlike the invincible tiefling children.


That's because Tieflings are of Human origin when Goblins are not. They are considered monsters and usually evil. I wouldn't call Tiefling children invincible, look at the cinematic scene with the Tiefling child Arabella, if you fail to save her, she gets killed by Kagha's snake.


I already covered that. If she can get killed by the snake then theres no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to with a weapon or spell. They are invincible when they cannot die and stay alive on 0 HP. Tieflings also look like devils, pretty much the definition of 'monsterous' if you care to look it up. The goblins actually look less like monsters than tieflings do anyway.


According to WOTC, the DM (Larian) is the one telling the story. That's the point of DnD not the rules or what WOTC considers canon. DnD is about storytelling, not about what the rules day, that's not fun. They are in place for guidance and that's it. To Larian, they are making Goblins evil, regardless whether they are adult or child, they are evil. Tieflings because they were once Human from pacts with demons, Larian is not making them killable. Perhaps because they were once Human. At the end of the day this is Larian's DnD story, they are the DM. I feel like some people are too invested in DnD and may in fact ruin the fun for others. This is supposed to be fun and not for us to be nitpicking every little thing Larian adds.

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Originally Posted by Twinkle Toes
So Larian decided it is ok to perpetuate negative sterotypes with their depiction of Goblins. But what is even more insidious is they allow you to kill children in BG3 but only the nasty green skinned ones.

Try killing a Tiefling child and you arent able to.

so what is the message here Larian?


I did not pay attention to this in the game, but if there is such a fact it is strange

Perhaps Hitler's ideas about good and bad races? Who can be killed and who can not.
Either let's not kill children at all (that would be a good idea, I have nothing against it), or let's kill everyone. Why was one race put above the other?

By the way. J.K. Rowling some blamed of anti-Semitism, since the goblins at Gringotts were associated with Jews. https://momentmag.com/debunking-the-harry-potter-anti-semitism-myth/

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Here is the first 2 lines of the entry for Goblins at https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/goblin


Goblin
Small humanoid (goblinoid), neutral evil


Goblins are evil. Enough said.

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It appears most people look at this thread as ironic in a way. However, when playing through the first act of the game I have encountered two different scenarios where Tiefling children are killed or at the very least can be killed. In one instance, a Tiefling child can be killed by the druids, while an additional can be killed by harpies not far from the previous location.

For the goblin children they can be killed by the druid in his bear form when he knocks down the gate, but they also have an opportunity to run away through the main doors. I do not recall the Tiefling children being afforded this opportunity with the exception of multiple game reloads in order to get the proper rolls or setup.

Regardless, the children on both sides can be killed, it may not be the exact way you would like to kill them or have them killed, but it is available none the less.

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Originally Posted by Osprey39
Here is the first 2 lines of the entry for Goblins at https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/goblin


Goblin
Small humanoid (goblinoid), neutral evil


Goblins are evil. Enough said.


If they are evil (but reasonable, and know how to speak and realize themselves ...), this gives us the right to kill their children, but children of good races cannot be killed? NSDAP said the same
Goblins are people too, they have feelings, intelligence, and so on.

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This thread has produced interesting arguments and made some people thing about how universal a system of morals can or should be. It is a rough ride but what could easily have turned into a flamewar elsewhere has stayed focused on arguments. It may lead nowhere but maybe it's worth the ride anyway.

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Osprey39
Here is the first 2 lines of the entry for Goblins at https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/goblin


Goblin
Small humanoid (goblinoid), neutral evil


Goblins are evil. Enough said.


If they are evil (but reasonable, and know how to speak and realize themselves ...), this gives us the right to kill their children, but children of good races cannot be killed?


I don't understand the logic some are using here. I see people are arguing that if you can kill a child from an evil race that will grow up to be evil, it's wrong because you can't kill a child from a good race that will grow up to be good. That makes no sense to me. That's like a murderer wanting to kill his victim but gets killed by someone and because the murderer was killed and not his victim, the victim should be killed. What?!

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Not exactly logically equivalent but you are right, that line of argument does not make sense
I think it is a matter of principle for most people. Taking morals into the story makes it depend on a common moral standard that is just not there. Same rules for every species and race avoid such problems.

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Osprey39
Here is the first 2 lines of the entry for Goblins at https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/goblin


Goblin
Small humanoid (goblinoid), neutral evil


Goblins are evil. Enough said.


If they are evil (but reasonable, and know how to speak and realize themselves ...), this gives us the right to kill their children, but children of good races cannot be killed? NSDAP said the same
Goblins are people too, they have feelings, intelligence, and so on.


[Linked Image]

Take a look at what is roasting on the spit in that picture. They are EVIL! The only reason they aren't attacking my character is because they think I am a True Soul. Stop trying to make moral equivalency arguments. Goblins have no morals and they generally kill on sight.



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Originally Posted by Osprey39
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Osprey39
Here is the first 2 lines of the entry for Goblins at https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/goblin


Goblin
Small humanoid (goblinoid), neutral evil


Goblins are evil. Enough said.


If they are evil (but reasonable, and know how to speak and realize themselves ...), this gives us the right to kill their children, but children of good races cannot be killed? NSDAP said the same
Goblins are people too, they have feelings, intelligence, and so on.


[Linked Image]

Take a look at what is roasting on the spit in that picture. They are EVIL! The only reason they aren't attacking my character is because they think I am a True Soul. Stop trying to make moral equivalency arguments. Goblins have no morals and they generally kill on sight.





We really need a vegan activist on this thread. Which would prove to us that bulls and other animals in this game are also intelligent, and can talk (after reading a spell, a talk with animals), then they cannot be eaten, and those who eat them are no different from goblins who eat gnomes.

grin

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy


We really need a vegan activist on this thread. Which would prove to us that bulls and other animals in this game are also intelligent, and can talk (after reading a spell, a talk with animals), then they cannot be eaten, and those who eat them are no different from goblins who eat gnomes.

grin


Moral philosophy is fun and never leads to results. It hast been a source of joy and entertainment since antiquity without producing anything substantial. Whats not to like

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The fact that you can't kill tiefling kids isnt because they are good, their alignment, or because of anything to do with storytelling. it is an oversight of political correctness issues like in many other games where they make children unkillable for political and legal matters, such as some countries banning games where you can kill children.

But the presence of the two killable goblin children show that they have completely overlooked this, and are applying that logic inconsistently. I do not think that any legal issue would arise it all the children in this game happened to be killable, just as they already were in BG1&2.

'Evil' in D&D doesn't designate what you get to kill or dont get to kill, as you are meant to have the choice to play as good or evil yourself. The fact that we can join the goblins and create a raid on the Druid camp shows that we can clearly play as evil in this game, and as such there is no reason from a lore perspective as to why only the evil goblin children should be killable.

It doesn't affect you if another player chooses to do an evil playthrough and kill everyone, children included in the Druid camp, just as much as it doesn't if anyone does the typical same thing with killing everyone and the children in the goblin camp.

Last edited by DumbleDorf; 18/10/20 10:47 PM.
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