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Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by VincentNZ
Originally Posted by Raflamir
An Eder-type companion would be great. He was so un-special and it was nice.


Yeah he was special in being so aggressively normal, something this game really lacks. Apart from the PC, who seems remarkably shallow compared to each and every companion who could rightfully be the protagonist of his own game.


He was normal but he had a hell of a backstory. His brother died in the war of the saint and he was sad about it, sad about Eothas demise and his loss of faith. Eder is a pillar, he is kind, compassionate, quiet, and listening. He play the roles of a tank. But these vulnerabilities, his past, the fact that you recruit him during the soulless child crisis near a hanged-man tree, all of this gives eder a dimension, a thickness, a feeling of realism. Its all in the writing, the character went through a lot. He may be ''normal'', but he has tons of experience, he has lived, and he talks about it.


My point precisely. He had a whole slew of issues, like we all have and that was relatable. That is stressful, yet he remains calm and focused and speaks about it. Meanwhile we have a vampiric elf and a powerful priest of an evil god and a guy possessed by a demon and Lae'Zel is probably the secret queen of all githyanki. Yeah, I am sure this is stressful, but what do I have to do with it? Why are you so on edge about it all the time? Why don't you want help and why don't you simply want to talk about it? Geez, these entitled people. It is like the people complaining about their life and the gas prices just to ride off into the sunset with their Porsche.

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Constant feedback I keep seeing from the "og d&d/BG1&2" crowd is that the NPCs are mean to the player character...........
You are in a strange land, dropped off in a other dimensional ship, with catastrophic mind controlling worms manipulating everything, at the risk of turning into mindflayers themselves. Each companion NPC is stressed out, confused, and distrustful on if the others are brainwashed or about to turn.

It's not all peaches and cream and good games and high fives. Jolly good adventure, lets go to the pub and enjoy a mug. Fun times there hero, you are a hero, by the way did we mention how heroic you are?

The environment and setting is supposed to be distrustful with a slow bonding over time through trials and tribulations. You don't just start out best-ies from the start.

If anything, the casually light heartedness of Gale was refreshing, but he is also keeping secrets on his own. Wyll is friendly and ready to be your bro if you fight goblins with him. Astarion is that guy who is friendly to get what he wants. Lae'zel wants a man's man to show her strength, she don't take no scrubs. Shadowheart is just your classic tsundere anime waifu.

Too many times the shallowest of requests for Minsc and his damn hamster keep being brought up. Yes yes, go for the eyes..ha....ha...ha, so lovable.

Also, the stronger goblins are also apart of a new cult with magic imbued powers from the "almighty". This could explain the newfound strength and organization of the goblins.

Fights can take a while, but I find it rewarding due to the tactical input I can provide and it is much like a chess game. Old goldbox D&D games were also turn based, so I am comfortable with this long thoughtful combat.

Surface manipulation and awareness add to the situational awareness and tactical gameplay.

Fights are not overly difficult as long as you use all the advantages to your ability. Keep high ground, build proper combat builds and skills, proper positioning, don't be afraid to fall back and lure enemies to chokes and into rooms where line of sight is protecting your squishy backline. Use surfaces to limit enemy movement or force them to walk through damaging or crowd controlling effects.

Loot, there is actually a lot of loot and special items. If anything, having a power fantasy and getting super strong at level 4 is already an issue. Special items should be special, and normal gear should be maintained. Taking out a boss or finishing a big quest line would be ok to provide loot, but finding magic items aplenty on the vendors is a bit much, and so early too!


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Originally Posted by FatePeddler
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by FatePeddler
OP, combat is super easy when you learn the game.


You mean... when you exploit the game ? eek

(backstab + eating + surfaces + shove + jump + rest + advantages + ...)


How is using the game mechanics, "exploiting"? Do you want BG3 to be a JRPG where you load into a set battle arena?


Having to "use the game mechanics" like this is not fun. It breaks the immersion, it makes the game a bad rpg. You can do all things mentiond + loading to find the optimal approach - but it's in no way enjoyable to do. You can't fix bad game design with "using the mechanics". The game is supposed to be D&D, so let's make it so. Doing the above does in no way represent how an RPG should go (for you to beat the fights & advance the game).

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Originally Posted by Muthud
Originally Posted by FatePeddler
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by FatePeddler
OP, combat is super easy when you learn the game.


You mean... when you exploit the game ? eek

(backstab + eating + surfaces + shove + jump + rest + advantages + ...)


How is using the game mechanics, "exploiting"? Do you want BG3 to be a JRPG where you load into a set battle arena?


Having to "use the game mechanics" like this is not fun. It breaks the immersion, it makes the game a bad rpg. You can do all things mentiond + loading to find the optimal approach - but it's in no way enjoyable to do. You can't fix bad game design with "using the mechanics". The game is supposed to be D&D, so let's make it so. Doing the above does in no way represent how an RPG should go (for you to beat the fights & advance the game).


+1 but this abuse is derivative of Larians design philosophy. Hopefully they will not repeat the mistakes they made with DivOS2 or the indifference they had to balancing that game.


I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by FatePeddler
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by FatePeddler
OP, combat is super easy when you learn the game.


You mean... when you exploit the game ? eek

(backstab + eating + surfaces + shove + jump + rest + advantages + ...)


How is using the game mechanics, "exploiting"? Do you want BG3 to be a JRPG where you load into a set battle arena?


Yea and you can eat an apple between 2 hit with your sword, you can jump like frogs to avoid damage, you can use a magic scroll when you never learn magic, you have more chance to hit a target with your bow if you're 50m away and higher... If you're 50m away but at the same level it's harder...

This is bad game design, so this is exploit.
I hope the majority of EA testers don't think like you^^

Last edited by Maximuuus; 19/10/20 03:13 PM.

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Originally Posted by Okidoki

Are goblins stupid, no they shouldn't be according to volo.

Well, Volo isn't exactly smart, himself.

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Originally Posted by GloriousZote
Originally Posted by Okidoki

Are goblins stupid, no they shouldn't be according to volo.

Well, Volo isn't exactly smart, himself.

Volo is probably the most important NPC in all of FR and is the person who writes 99% of in game lore. Think of his as a self insert for anyone that has written or contributed to FRCS lore.


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But isn't the appearance of Volo in a classical D&D setting usually meaning the DM wants to kill you? Isn't there a long running meme/joke about it too?

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Most of the bad mechanical stuff is follow ons from changes they've made from the ruleset, again like a bad DM would, just a cascade of patches to their homebrew system that breaks the system they had that already worked

-Larian puts in goblin encounter
-Larian implements their height advantage/disadvantage system (giving a 3:1 advantage for the high creature)
-Goblins are now impossible to hit (the basic goblin in D&D has high AC and low hitpoints)
-Goblins have their AC reduced to 7 so players can hit them when they are elevated, because combat was too unfun missing over and over
-Larian introduces surface effects to everything
-Firebolt now kills goblins even if it misses them
-Triple the goblin HP
-Concentration spells are vastly nerfed by the fire surfaces created by enemies, you have a small chance of holding concentration if put in a fire field
- YOU ARE HERE -

this is just going to keep spiraling into more and more dev effort to patch problems of their own making

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Originally Posted by override367
Most of the bad mechanical stuff is follow ons from changes they've made from the ruleset, again like a bad DM would, just a cascade of patches to their homebrew system that breaks the system they had that already worked

-Larian puts in goblin encounter
-Larian implements their height advantage/disadvantage system (giving a 3:1 advantage for the high creature)
-Goblins are now impossible to hit (the basic goblin in D&D has high AC and low hitpoints)
-Goblins have their AC reduced to 7 so players can hit them when they are elevated, because combat was too unfun missing over and over
-Larian introduces surface effects to everything
-Firebolt now kills goblins even if it misses them
-Triple the goblin HP
-Concentration spells are vastly nerfed by the fire surfaces created by enemies, you have a small chance of holding concentration if put in a fire field
- YOU ARE HERE -

this is just going to keep spiraling into more and more dev effort to patch problems of their own making

+1

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Originally Posted by override367
Most of the bad mechanical stuff is follow ons from changes they've made from the ruleset, again like a bad DM would, just a cascade of patches to their homebrew system that breaks the system they had that already worked

-Larian puts in goblin encounter
-Larian implements their height advantage/disadvantage system (giving a 3:1 advantage for the high creature)
-Goblins are now impossible to hit (the basic goblin in D&D has high AC and low hitpoints)
-Goblins have their AC reduced to 7 so players can hit them when they are elevated, because combat was too unfun missing over and over
-Larian introduces surface effects to everything
-Firebolt now kills goblins even if it misses them
-Triple the goblin HP
-Concentration spells are vastly nerfed by the fire surfaces created by enemies, you have a small chance of holding concentration if put in a fire field
- YOU ARE HERE -

this is just going to keep spiraling into more and more dev effort to patch problems of their own making

+1


Necromancy is just recycling...
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Worst thing is, surface effects would be fine in moderation, using the terrain to your advantage would be very fun that way, maybe enemies smarter than goblins could utilize such tactics, but these guys? come on, man!

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I Have clocked 88 hours in the game so far, 3 playthrougs of EA with several "one shot" characters.

And I don't agree with much of what OP said.

I don't think characters are particularly hostile, some of them are, but hey look at the situation they are in?
The Setpiece battles aren't all that prevalent imo. But some combats have a lot of compatants, that's annoying at times.

Surfaces, sure need to be toned down imo. I would like to see 5e be followed more, but I don't really mind it.

As for combat difficulty:
First playthrough, 3 players, 3 character party, no cleric in the party, not at all optimized builds, managed fine.
You just need to learn the house rules of the game really, like what gives advantage and disadvantage. What items to stock up on etc. Could it be optimized? Sure
Goblins being better than MM? Have you never used custom creatures? Bog standard goblins get boring after a while. Most annoying thing about them is the surfaces, so if you tone that down, I think Goblins are just fine. Also most goblins have about 8-14 HP if I recall correctly. That put's the, at just 1-2 HP over MM.


Yes the game needs some balance tweaking, but I've enjoyed every 88 hours I've played.

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Originally Posted by override367
Most of the bad mechanical stuff is follow ons from changes they've made from the ruleset, again like a bad DM would, just a cascade of patches to their homebrew system that breaks the system they had that already worked

-Larian puts in goblin encounter
-Larian implements their height advantage/disadvantage system (giving a 3:1 advantage for the high creature)
-Goblins are now impossible to hit (the basic goblin in D&D has high AC and low hitpoints)
-Goblins have their AC reduced to 7 so players can hit them when they are elevated, because combat was too unfun missing over and over
-Larian introduces surface effects to everything
-Firebolt now kills goblins even if it misses them
-Triple the goblin HP
-Concentration spells are vastly nerfed by the fire surfaces created by enemies, you have a small chance of holding concentration if put in a fire field
- YOU ARE HERE -

this is just going to keep spiraling into more and more dev effort to patch problems of their own making


The mess they’ve made with the basic rules are so overwhelmingly bad that now for the first time I wonder if that comments about being DOS3 which I used to hate wasn’t an overreaction at all.

Also, I’ve noticed that the only homebrew I really appreciate are those weapon skills.

Couldn’t enjoy the game so far

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Originally Posted by FatePeddler
OP, combat is super easy when you learn the game.


This.

I mean I wiped out like half the goblin village by assassinating/1-shotting every goblin that.., I won't spoil it for ya but pay close attention to what the goblins are occasionally doing wink

I agree with the OP about you starting out with mostly a-holes. Gale and one other warms up to you quickly but yeah they are all pretty ungrateful for my efforts out of the gate.

Last edited by cgexile; 19/10/20 06:49 PM.
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For four days now I want to make another run with my newly gained knowledge on game mechanics and all the stuff I likely missed already (I read that there is a green headband that sets intelligence to 18 2 hours into the game, yet I never saw it), but since then I start the game and still find something else to do, like ironing my clothes.

I really have isues with the game and, while I see the potential and also think it is good, I just can not be bothered to play it more. That does say a lot.

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Originally Posted by override367
Most of the bad mechanical stuff is follow ons from changes they've made from the ruleset, again like a bad DM would, just a cascade of patches to their homebrew system that breaks the system they had that already worked

-Larian puts in goblin encounter
-Larian implements their height advantage/disadvantage system (giving a 3:1 advantage for the high creature)
-Goblins are now impossible to hit (the basic goblin in D&D has high AC and low hitpoints)
-Goblins have their AC reduced to 7 so players can hit them when they are elevated, because combat was too unfun missing over and over
-Larian introduces surface effects to everything
-Firebolt now kills goblins even if it misses them
-Triple the goblin HP
-Concentration spells are vastly nerfed by the fire surfaces created by enemies, you have a small chance of holding concentration if put in a fire field
- YOU ARE HERE -

this is just going to keep spiraling into more and more dev effort to patch problems of their own making


+1

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So while I completely respect the opinion of the OP...I disagree with most of what is said here. I just want to let my opinion be known so it doesn't seem like every player feels the same way.

- every. damn. NPC. hates you. Why? Why does this have to be so damn oppressive? Where is the levity, the gratitude, the derring-do? Why is everyone such a dick? It doesn't make me want to solve quests because the people who give them to me are such c- well, you know.

I don't get this impression at all. I read something similar in a published review. Even among your companions, the only ones that seem like they hate you are Lae'zel and Shadowheart IMO. Gale is actually pretty open with you and Wyll is basically the embodiment of "derring-do." I mean he even shouts his moniker in battle like he's freaking Zorro lol.

As for non-companions, I've had plenty of NPCs seem grateful after I helped them. They even threw a huge party for me.

Maybe it's just your playthrough that is giving you this impression?

- goblins have triple their MM health, loads of alchemists fire. It feels like the DM is cheating for no good reason.
- most fights are so difficult that you need party optimisation, which means you'll need to be a cleric or have shadowheart and that's that.
- picking on low-armor backline targets or knocked out ones. Seriously, I get that in real life monsters will probably do this, but in gameplay the reality is people are going to just give up trying to have low armored casters in their party at all.


All of these boil down to this being a computer game where you can save and reload, and not actual D&D where if you die, it's permanent (unless you get rezzed). Yes, the game is clearly tuned to be more difficult than actual D&D. But this is because it would be incredibly boring to play a game where you can just win every encounter without ever needing to save or reload.

Also, you really don't need a cleric. You can get downed people up with any party member, and it lets you eat food or drink potions as bonus actions.

- surfaces. surfaces everywhere. go away.

I don't get the hatred for surfaces. Yes, surfaces are like Divinity, yes, I get a lot of people don't like that for some reason. But surfaces actually make the game feel much closer to pen and paper D&D. In pen and paper D&D you can do creative things like cast an ice spell on a pool of water to try to freeze it, and if your DM allows, that can be a fun way to turn the tables. Surfaces let you actually pull off things like this in a game.

- the game wastes my time with big 'set piece' battles like the one at the gates of the druid grove. Lots of NPCs fighting lots of NPCs. I can't ambush or anything because a cutscene forces me into combat so far away from the action I spend most moves running. Just use a cutscene, please.

I agree, don't have lengthy NPC vs NPC battles.

- and after all this, theres... nothing. no loot. no helpful items. everything seems empty.

There does need to be some more loot, I'm hoping they add some.






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Originally Posted by override367
Most of the bad mechanical stuff is follow ons from changes they've made from the ruleset, again like a bad DM would, just a cascade of patches to their homebrew system that breaks the system they had that already worked

-Larian puts in goblin encounter
-Larian implements their height advantage/disadvantage system (giving a 3:1 advantage for the high creature)
-Goblins are now impossible to hit (the basic goblin in D&D has high AC and low hitpoints)
-Goblins have their AC reduced to 7 so players can hit them when they are elevated, because combat was too unfun missing over and over
-Larian introduces surface effects to everything
-Firebolt now kills goblins even if it misses them
-Triple the goblin HP
-Concentration spells are vastly nerfed by the fire surfaces created by enemies, you have a small chance of holding concentration if put in a fire field
- YOU ARE HERE -

this is just going to keep spiraling into more and more dev effort to patch problems of their own making

You did it, you glorious bastard. That is the perfect summary of how Larian have changed the mechanics instead of balancing encounters and creating even exponentially more problems for themselves.


I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by override367
Most of the bad mechanical stuff is follow ons from changes they've made from the ruleset, again like a bad DM would, just a cascade of patches to their homebrew system that breaks the system they had that already worked

-Larian puts in goblin encounter
-Larian implements their height advantage/disadvantage system (giving a 3:1 advantage for the high creature)
-Goblins are now impossible to hit (the basic goblin in D&D has high AC and low hitpoints)
-Goblins have their AC reduced to 7 so players can hit them when they are elevated, because combat was too unfun missing over and over
-Larian introduces surface effects to everything
-Firebolt now kills goblins even if it misses them
-Triple the goblin HP
-Concentration spells are vastly nerfed by the fire surfaces created by enemies, you have a small chance of holding concentration if put in a fire field
- YOU ARE HERE -

this is just going to keep spiraling into more and more dev effort to patch problems of their own making

You did it, you glorious bastard. That is the perfect summary of how Larian have changed the mechanics instead of balancing encounters and creating even exponentially more problems for themselves.


Yet many people will state that they’ve beaten the game with just one character and that’s all right. It’s doesn’t matter how many save scumming you’ve done, or how many cheesing you’ve used through battlefield exploration that was added intentionally by Larian to make you feel special and smart. In the end you’re not creative, all that marvelous tactics functions like your DM is playing for you.

I think many people judge the difficulty rate of a game my the amount of deaths you’ve accumulated through a campaign and how much you’ve loaded. I do think that every time I repeat a battle it gets less and less unique.

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